Michael Sean Winters affirms the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) since if asked he would say that the baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) and LG 8, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc refer to invisible and not visible people in 2019. So they are not practical exceptions to the past ecclesiology, an ecumenism of return and exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church. I have sent him e-mails of these posts and there is no contradiction from him.

Michael Sean Winters affirms the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) since if asked he would say that the baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) and LG 8, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc refer to invisible and not visible people in 2019. So they are not practical exceptions  to the past ecclesiology, an ecumenism of return and exclusive salvation  in the Catholic Church. I have sent him e-mails of these posts and there is no contradiction from him.

I did not expect him to issue a denial. Since how could he say that BOD, BOB and I.I and LG 8, UR 3, NA 2 , GS 22 etc, refer to  personally known and objectively seen people in 2019? How could he name someone saved outside the Church ? How can someone in Heaven also be seen on earth?

So no denial was expected from him.

He may not want to affirm Feeneyite EEBS since it is not politically correct for the Left, for whom he works, but when he accepts Vatican Council II, with LG 8 etc not being literal cases in the present times, he does not contradict EENS according to the missionaries in the 16th century.He is affirming Feeneyite EENS and other magisterial documents interpreted rationally.

He would also know that the Council is also Feeneyite with Ad Gentes 7. It says all need faith and baptism for salvation.So Vatican Council II is Christological and also ecclesiocentric.It is not only Christological.

Ad Gentes 7 is placed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church under the title Outside the Church No Salvation (CCC 846).1

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (846) is ecclesiocentric since even though 'all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body, this is not a reference to personally known non Catholics saved outside the Catholic Church'.In reality there are no 'physical bodies', in Newton's time and space,saved without faith and baptism, saved outside the Church.Since if someone is saved he or she would be in Heaven and not visible on earth.

So CCC 847-848 2 does not contradict CCC 846 or the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.They refer to theoretical cases.

The political correspondent of the National Catholic Reporter, interprets Vatican Council II and EENS rationally, like the traditionalist Brother Andre Marie MICM,Prior at the St. Benedict Center, New Hampshire, USA.

-Lionel Andrades

1

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?³³⁵ Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.³³⁶

²

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.³³⁷

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."³³⁸

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NOVEMBER 3, 2019

Michael Sean Winters affirms Vatican Council II and also the strict interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) since the Council supports Feeneyite EENS when it is interpreted rationally.The Council is Feeneyite.He agrees with me.When he supports Fr. Leonard Feeney on EENS he is not in schism since the Council does the same when interpreted rationally.   https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/11/michael-sean-winters-affirms-vatican.html