It is managed by lay Italians. Sr. Maria Carla is the Sister Incharge. She is a Montfortian Sister, one of the communities of women and men here in Rome who follow the spirituality of St. Louis di Montfort.
Or at least they claim to do so. Some do not.
St. Marie di Montfort was one of the Catholic saints who taught that most people are oriented to Hell, Catholics included. He also taught the ‘strict interpretation’ of extra ecclesiam nulla salus. i.e
Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II: ‘…all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door….’Sr. Carla as a Montfortian has no faith to share. If you are poor she will help you. Faith?!
Don Giovanni is the Carmelite, assistant priest at the Basilica of San Martino ai Montini, I was telling him yesterday of the disappointing conversation I had with Sister Carla.I asked him: if he met a non Catholic, like those outside the bathing centre could he tell that person that the Catholic Church says that he needs to convert to go to Heaven?This was the teaching of St. Teresa of Avila, St. Teresa of the Little Flower and other Carmelites.
He said that he believes what everyone else in the Catholic Church believes - that if a non a Catholic has a good conscience he can be saved.
‘If you encounter a non-Catholic? How do you know that he has a good conscience?’ I asked.
He then says that only Jesus can judge contradicting his earlier statement.
Correct. So we cannot judge personally when meeting a non Catholic. However Jesus and the Church teache us that the non Catholic needs to convert to go to avoid Hell.
Those who do not will be condemned.’ I added completing his sentence.
'Non Catholics do not believe!'
'They have an obligation to search for the truth and God will judge them accordingly', said Don Giovanni.
True. But how can Father Giovanni judge this. How can he assure himself of this fact when he meets a person.he cannot assume that the person he meets is going to Heaven. He cannot judge, like we both agreed. We do not know personally. If God will judge them accordingly why suggest that they have a good conscience already.
The Church says that the non Catholic is oriented to Hell. The Church says this in the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, in Vatican Council II, Ad Gentes 7, in the teachings of the Church Fathers and the saints, including the Carmelites.
Father Giovanni repeats: if there is a non Catholic I meet he can be in invincible ignorance etc.
Meaning: Fr.Giovanni assumes that every non Catholic he meets is in invincible ignorance. This is the ordinay way to go to Heaven.
This is false. It is saying the baptism of desire is the ordinary way of salvation and not the baptism of water. It is also teaching that people in some rare tribe in Africa are in invincible ignorance which is the ordinary way to Heaven and not Catholic Faith and the Baptism of water.
So every Muslim he meets for instance at the Basilica are being saved in the ordinary way because they have a good conscience or are in search of the truth.
This seemed a dead end. He was contradicting himself . And we would start the circle of thinking all over again.
“What about the Law of Moses?”. I tried to reach the issue from another angle.
“If someone commits a murder he is oriented to Hell if he has not gone for Confession?”
“We cannot judge” he says again. “ Only God can judge who is going to Heaven.”
Fine. After the murderer dies only Jesus will judge. However now we know that the murderer is going in the direction of Hell. If he dies now that is the general place where murderers go.
“May be he does not know about Confession.”, Father Giovanni comes back.
Fine. There could be an exception who does not know about Confession and God will judge him.
However a person who commits a murder knows in his heart that it is wrong and the Church also teaches that it is wrong. He is oriented to Hell barring the exceptional.
“I do not think he will go to Hell”, said Fr. Giovanni.
Neither does he think that the Muslim needs to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation.He tells me this is all philosophy and he is not interested.
This has been the teaching of the Catholic Church for some 2000 years .If he used philosophy (we cannot judge a person is going to Hell) then I can do the same (we cannot judge if a person is going to Heaven). So we are left with what does the Magisterium; what does the Catholic Church teach ?
“Why should the Church suddenly change its 2000 years of teaching,” I asked. “This was the belief of all the Carmelites.”
May be he thinks Muslims will be judged according to their religion.
The Judge, however founded only one religion. He wants all of us to enter this religion.Only the Catholic Church is the moral authority. Those who are knowingly outside this Church will be outside Heaven and the Presence of God after death.
So the Muslim at the Ave Maria centre needs to convert is the teaching of the Judge and his Church, the Catholic Church.
I thought the Ave Maria was a secular humanist center managed by a nun. Now I see that the same indifference, as that of Sr.Carla, is there in this kind old Italian priest looking after the sacristy.
The Parish Priest Father Adriano was not there.
I was in the Legion of Mary in this Church. Fr.Nicola also a Carmelite was the Parish Priest. He has been transferred to Albano.
Fr.Nicola and I were in happy agreement.
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