Wednesday, October 22, 2014

If Louie Verrecchio answers the two questions frankly he would be at odds with the SSPX

Comments from Louie Verrecchio's blog Harvesting the Fruit of Vatican Council II.

A Catholic Thinker
Lionel, on the contrary, I am quite sure that there is nary an SSPX priest – or intelligent layman – incapable of responding to Feeneyism, or exactly whatever it is you’re here suggesting is the plain truth.
By Feeneyism I would refer to the Catholic traditional belief on there being exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church and that all adults on earth need to have Catholic Faith and the baptism of water with no exception, to go to Heaven and avoid Hell. The baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are possibilities known only to God and are not known to us in the present times(2014) to be explict exceptions to all needing to be formal members of the Catholic Church for salvation.Hypothetical cases cannot be defacto exceptions to the traditional interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney of Boston.
 A Catholic Thinker
I also am not able to see your questions as sensible.
“1) Do we personally know the dead now saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience (LG 16) etc,can we see them, are they physically visible to us in 2014 ?” What, exactly, are you trying to ask, or assert? You are correct that we don’t generally “see dead people”, physically, saved or not.
Exactly. You have answered the question. I agree with you. We physically cannot see the dead.
A Catholic Thinker
I have no idea what you’re suggesting here.
 I am suggesting what you have correctly mentioned above.
A Catholic Thinker
 The Church has always – since Apostolic times – taught that baptism is necessary for salvation, that water baptism is the necessary means of baptism, and that two other forms exist: that of blood and that of desire
However this was the second question.
2) Since we do not know any of these cases, in real life, they are not visible for us, there are no known exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, or Ad Gentes 7 which states ‘all’ need ‘faith and baptism’ for salvation ?
Let me elaborate.
You have said that we cannot see any one on earth physically saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance.These cases do not exist in our reality.
To be an exception to all needing the baptism of water for salvation there would have to be known cases, physically visible.Theoretical cases cannot be exceptions to the dogma.
Yet in the last Communique to Friends and Benefactors Bishop Bernard Fellay has assumed that there are known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus in Vatican Council II.
The SSPX is also selling a book written by Fr.Francois Laisney in which he assumes that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions to the dogma.In other words these cases are physically visible to us.
So if Louie answers the two questions frankly he would be at odds with others in the SSPX.
Lionel Andrades

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