Sedevacantist Bishop Donald Sanborn and Fr.Anthony Cekada at the Most Holy Trinity Seminary, in Florida, USA offer Holy Mass in sacrilege

 Bishop Donald Sanborn and Fr.Anthony Cekada at the Most Holy Trinity Seminary, the sedevacantist seminary in Florida, USA offer Holy Mass sacrilege.Like the present two popes they are rejecting the following doctrine.

1.Nicene Creed.

2.Athanasius Creed.

3.Apostles Creed.

4.Extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

5.Vatican Council II.

6.Catechism of the Catholic Church.

7.Catechism of the Council of Trent and other Catechisms.

As I mentioned in a previous post,1 the popes and the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) may say that the accept all these above doctrines/ Church documents.The  the two popes and Cardinal Ladaria and Archbishop Pozzo affirm all the above it could be wrongly said.

Then I would mention the following points to clarify their position.

1. Are you saying that they believe in one (known, personally seen) baptism for the forgiveness of sin mentioned in the  Nicene Creed ?
 It is only the baptism of water. There are not three or more known baptisms( desire, blood, invincible ignorance) which exclude the baptism of water for the forgiveness of sins?

Lionel: My answer would be there is only one known baptism.It is the baptism of water. There are not three known baptisms. We cannot see the baptism of desire, for example and neither can we give it to any one.So it us un-known.This is a mistake they make also at the Most Holy Trinity Seminary.

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2. Are you saying outside the Church there is no salvation ( Athanasius Creed).? Their answer would be outside the Church there is salvation.

Lionel: My answer is outside the Church there is no salvation and this means outside the Church there is no known salvation.

This is a mistake also made by Bishop Sanborn and Fr. Cekada. The baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance (I.I) are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) for them. They have had their religious formation under Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

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3.Does 'the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church' ( Apostles Creed) teach today that there is known  salvation outside the Church and that we can see and meet someone saved with the baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and invincible ignorance(I.I)? So the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) today is no more like it was for the missionaries in the 16th century ?

Lionel: BOD, BOB and I.I do not contradict the dogma EENS.The Holy Spirit does not teach error.
For the CDF the dogma EENS is contradicted by BOD,BOB and I.I. EENS is no more like it was for the Magisterium in the 16th century. It is the same at the sedevacantist seminary in Florida.The baptism of desire etc are exceptions to EENS.

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4.Does everyone need to be a member of the Catholic Church for salvation ? ( Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441,Catechism of Pope Pius X,Vatican Council II, Ad Gentes 7).

Lionel: My answer would be YES. There answer would also be Yes but at the same time they say that BOD, BOB and I.I are exceptions and they criticize Fr. Leonard Feeney.

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5.Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 846-Outside the Church no salvation) and (CCC 1257-The Necessity of Baptism) do not contradict the strict interpretation of the dogma EENS?

Lionel: No they do not contradict the dogma EENS. For the sedevacantists, who interpret BOD, BOB and I.I in the Catechism, irrationally, there is a rupture with Tradition.

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6.The past Catechisms when they mentioned BOD, BOB and I.I were referring to hypothetical and not objective people, invisible and not visible non Catholics saved outside the Church.

Lionel: Yes they were referring to only hypothetical cases.The Catechism of Pope Pius X ( invincible ignorance) would be a rupture with the Syllabus of Errors ( ecumenism of return etc) for Bishop Sanborn and Fr. Cekada.

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7.The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 made an objective mistake when it assumed invisible casesof BOD, BOB and I.I were visible exceptions to EENS?

Lionel : Yes.

The sedevacantists too accept the false reasoning in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.

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8.Fr.Leonard Feeney was teaching orthodoxy  on EENS and the Holy Office (CDF) wanted him to say that invisible cases of BOD, BOB and I.I were visible exceptions to traditional EENS.This was heresy.

Lionel: Yes this was heresy.The sedevacantists criticize Fr. Leonard Feeney and support the Holy Office 1949.

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9.Cardinal Ladaria made a mistake at the Placuet Deo Press Conference( March 1, 2018) when in response to a question from a lady journalist of the Associated Press, he suggested that Lumen Gentium 8 referred to known non Catholics, saved outside the Catholic Church.So the traditional teaching on EENS ; the Church having the superiority and exclusiveness in salvation was contradicted?

Lionel: Yes. He made a mistake.

None of the sedevacantists noticed this error since they interpret LG 8 and Vatican Council II with the same false reasoning.

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10.Pope Benedict made a mistake in March 2016 ( Avvenire) when he said that EENS was no  more like it was for the missionaries in the 16th century, since Vatican Council II was a development?

Lionel : Yes he was wrong. Since he interpreted LG 8,  LG 16 etc, in Vatican Council II, irrationally.They were exceptions to EENS for him.In other words they were visible and known people saved outside the Church. 
We know there are no such people.

But the faculty and students and the sedevacantist seminary in Florida let Pope Benedict get away with this error. They were in ignorance.

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11.The BOD, BOB and I.I refer to invisible people in 2018. But the popes and ecclesiastics assume that these were personally known people saved outside the Church in 1965-2018.

Lionel:They refer to hypothetical and theoretical cases.So the popes and ecclesiastics made a mistake.

The seminary in Florida make the same mistake.

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12.Even if a St.Emerentiana or a St.Victor was allegedly saved outside the Church ( no one could have physically seen them saved without the baptism of water) they cannot be objective exceptions to EENS in 1965-2018?

Lionel: They cannot be objective exceptions to EENS since they do not exist in our reality.They are not here in the present times. A hypothetical,possibility of salvation is not an actual person saved outside the Church in the past times.People who are not there cannot be exceptions to EENS.

For Bishop Sanborn and Fr. Cekada these are exceptions to Feeneyite EENS.

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13.If BOD,BOB and I.I referred to invisible and personally unknown people then they would not contradict EENS.So all the natives in the Americas before Columbus went there were oriented to Hell. Since the norm for salvation is faith and baptism and not invincible ignorance. Also any case of invincible ignorance would not be an exception to the norm in the Americas, since it would not be known to humans?

Lionel: They were all oriented to Hell with no known exceptions. Since the norm for salvation for all is faith and baptism in the Catholic Church.Invincible ignorance is not an exception.Since there are no known cases of invincible ignorance, to contradict the norm of the Church, taught by the Holy Spirit.

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14.Vatican Council II supports EENS when it says all need faith and baptism for salvation(AG 7).

Lionel: Yes.

The faculty and seminarians at Florida still do not know this.They interpret Vatican Council irrationally. 

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15.Vatican Council II indicates most people are oriented to Hell since they die without faith and baptism(AG 7).So there is the need for traditional mission projects knowing that there are no known exceptions to the ordinary means of salvation,which is faith and baptism.
Lionel: Yes. 

This has never been said by Bishop Sanborn and Fr. Cekada and neither by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

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My answers show that there  is no rupture between Vatican Council II  and the strict interpretation of the dogma EENS. Similarly the Catechisms are also interpreted with the hermeneutic of continuity.

This would not be true for the CDF. They reject EENS as it was known to the Jesuits in the 16th century.It is the same for the sedevacantist students and facultry.

I do not interpret the Creeds as contradicting themselves.This is an an error of the CDF.This is an error of Bishop Sanborn and Fr. Cekada too.

For me the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 is irrational and heretical. However it is acceptable for the two popes and the CDF. It is accepted by the sedevacantists and traditionalists.

I affirm EENS like the Magisterium and missionaries in the 16th century.The present popes, cardinals and bishops do not do the same.Neither do they do so at the sedevacantist seminary in Florida, St.Gertrude the Great Catholic Church, Cincinati, Sisters of St. Thomas Aquinas,Queen of Hungary traditional catholic community in Budapest  etc. They say they are not Feeneyites.

So for me they are in public heresy.The popes, cardinals and bishops offer Holy Mass in sacrilege and so do Bishop Donald Sanborn and Fr. Anthony Cekada. In public they will not rationally affirm Magisterial documents of the Catholic Church.-Lionel Andrades

NOVEMBER 28, 2018

This is the doctrine the two popes reject : valid Holy Mass but in sacrilege

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/11/this-is-doctrine-two-popes-reject-valid.html

http://mostholytrinityseminary.org/home.html
https://www.sodalitiumpianum.com/the-st-peter-martyr-seminary/

http://www.sodalitium.biz/

JULY 2, 2018

Since for Ludwig Ott there are exceptions to EENS,the old Catechisms would also be a rupture with the past exclusivist ecclesiology.It would contradict an ecumenism of return and no salvation outside the Church

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/07/since-for-ludwig-ott-there-are.html

JUNE 30, 2018

Bishops Schneider, Sanborn and Pivarunas contradict the Syllabus of Errors while the Catechisms of Trent and Pius X are a rupture with the past exclusivist ecclesiology of the Church for them  https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/06/bishops-schneider-sanborn-and-pivarunas_30.html

JUNE 26, 2018

Similar to Latinist Ryan Grant, the sedevacantists Bishop Mark Pivarunas and Bishop Donald Sanborn interpret the Catechism of the Council of Trent and Pope Pius X as a rupture with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ( Feeneyite) and the past exclusivist ecclesiology        https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/06/similar-to-latinist-ryan-gran.html

MARCH 15, 2018

Announcement and apology expected from Bishop Daniel Dolan, Bishop Donald Sanborn and Fr. Anthony Cekada  https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/03/announcement-and-apology-expected-from.html