December 22, 2017
Cardinal Kasper uses specious reasoning to further ecumenism and reject the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
by Cardinal Walter Kasper
This
strict identification of the church of Christ Jesus with the Catholic
Church had been represented most recently in the encyclicals Mystici corporis (1943) and Humani generis (1950).
Lionel:
Cardinal Walter Kasper acknowledges that the strict identification of
the church of Jesus Christ only with the Catholic Church is there in
Mystici Corporis etc.
_________________________
But even according to Mystici corporis there
are people who, although they have not yet been baptised, are subsumed
under the Catholic Church because that is their express desire (DS 3921).
Lionel: Theoretically only! In reality there are no such people.
__________________________
Therefore Pius XII had condemned an exclusive interpretation of the axiom “Extra ecclesiam nulla salus” already in 1949...[10]
Lionel: The Letter
of the Holy See to the Archbishop of Boston (1949), in: DS 3866-73,
made the mistake of assuming theoretical cases of the baptism of desire,
baptism of blood and being saved in invincible ignorance were real and
known people saved outside the Church and so were exceptions to
Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS). This was irrational and non traditional. It was a new doctrine.
So how could an exclusivist,strict interpretation of the dogma( not axiom) extra ecclesiam nulla salus
be condemned, when there are no practical exceptions, past or present
to it. No one could have seen someone saved outside the Church in the
past with the baptism of water. No one can also see any one saved in the
present times without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.
So this is theological deception and Pope Benedict had gone along with it, instead of correcting the error.
_____________________
Thus
the Council is aware that there are outside of the Catholic Church
forms of sanctification which even extend as far as martyrdom (LG, 15; UR, 4; UUS, 12, 83).
Lionel:
Theoretically - in real life however there are no known cases of some
saved outside the Church, there are no known cases of martyrdom outside
the Church,without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.If there
was it would only be known to God. Human beings within the Church can
only speculate.
One can speculate that St. Emerentiana or some other saint died with the baptism of blood but no one on earth can claim that it was without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.
One can speculate that St. Emerentiana or some other saint died with the baptism of blood but no one on earth can claim that it was without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.
_________________________________
The question of the salvation of non-Catholics is now no longer answered personally as in Mystici corporis on the basis of the subjective desire of single individuals, but institutionally on the basis of objective ecclesiology...
Lionel:
How can there be an objective ecclesiology when there are no objective
cases of non Catholics saved outside the Catholic Church?
_____________________________
The Council went a decisive step further with the aid of the “subsistit in”.
It wished to do justice to the fact that there are found outside of the
Catholic Church not only individual Christians but also “elements of
the church”,
Lionel:
How can there be found outside the Catholic Church individual
Christians who are saved? If there were any such case it would be
unknown to us and known only to God.
_____________________________
indeed
churches and ecclesial communities which, although not in full
communion, rightly belong to the one church and possess salvatory
significance for their members (LG, 8, 15; UR, 3; UUS,
10-14). Thus the Council is aware that there are outside of the
Catholic Church forms of sanctification which even extend as far as
martyrdom (LG, 15; UR, 4; UUS, 12, 83). The question of the salvation of non-Catholics is now no longer answered personally as in Mystici corporis on the basis of the subjective desire of single individuals, but institutionally on the basis of objective ecclesiology.
Lionel:
There is no objective case of a non Catholic saved outside the Church
so there cannot be an objective exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).
_______________________________
The
Catholic Church continues to claim, as it always has, to be the true
church of Christ Jesus, in which the entire fullness of the means of
salvation are present (UR, 3; UUS, 14), but it now sees itself in a context of dialogue with the other churches and ecclesial communities.
Lionel : The Catholic Church still teaches in Vatican Council II(Ad Gentes 7) that all need faith and baptism
for salvation.So the Church still affirms the traditional exclusivist
ecclesiology of the past, which was rejected by Cardinal Kasper and his
friend Cardinal Ratzinger.
_____________________________
It does not propound any new doctrine but establishes a new outlook,
Lionel: Cardinal Kasper propounds a new doctrine.He is saying here, in a subtle way, that outside the Catholic Church there is known salvation and these persons are objective exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This is false.He contradicts the Principle of Non Contradiction.
______________________________
abandons triumphalism
Lionel:
No it does not abandon the exclusivist ecclesiology of the past since
there are no objective exceptions to it, past or present.So it has not
abandoned what the Masons call 'triumphalism'.By rejecting triumphalism
he is also saying that there can be inter-faith marriages which are not
adultery and that non Catholics do not need to covert, since there is
allegedly salvation outside the Church.
______________________________
and
formulates its traditional self-concept in a realistic, historically
concrete – one could even say, humble – manner. -Cardinal Walter Kasper 1
1
III. “Subsistit in” – Expression of an Historically Concrete Ecclesiology
CONFERENCE ON THE 40th ANNIVERSARY OF THE PROMULGATION OF THE CONCILIAR DECREE "UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO"
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/card-kasper-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20041111_kasper-ecumenism_en.html
[10] Letter of the Holy See to the Archbishop of Boston (1949), in: DS 3866-73.
________________________________
OCTOBER 26, 2015
Cardinal Kaspar changed ecclesiology assuming B is an exception to A : he used an irrational model to interpret Vatican Council II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/10/cardinal-walter-kasper-said-in.html
The
same false reasoning is there in the writings of Prof. Gavin D'Costa a
Catholic professor of theology at the University of Bristol, England.
1. On the University of Bristol video, Prof. Gavin D’Costa,a liberal Catholic professor of theology, assumed that ‘ a ray of Truth’ mentioned in Nostra Aetate 2 is explicit for us. So Nostra Aetate is considered an exception to the traditional teaching on salvation.
This is objectively wrong and is the same mistake made by the liberal Cardinal Walter Kasper in the text above.
2.In 2013 Bishop Fellay wrote the preface for the book written by the SSPX theologian Fr.Jean Marie Gleaze, Vaticano II- Un Dibattito Aperto (Editrice Ichthys). He recommended the book.
Fr.Jean Marie Glleize
says in this book that in Mystici Corporis Pope Pius XII says ‘ in the
exceptional way one can be saved outside the visible limits of the
Catholic Church.’ How can there be an exceptional way to the dogmatic teaching? We
do not know any explicit, visible case which could be an exception. If
there are no known exceptions how can there be an exceptional way ?
Fr.Gleize
is making the same error as the other priests and bishops of the SSPX
in assuming that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible
ignorance, imperfect communion with the Church etc are visible exceptions.
In faith we accept the baptism of desire as being implicit. It is a
possibility. It is not an exception.It is hypothetical and not an
exception to Feeneyite EENS.
Fr.Gleize
is the professor of Ecclesiology at the SSPX seminary in Econe.It can
be seen he is making the same error as Cardinal Kasper and Gavin
D'Costa.
3.
The same reasoning is used by Massimo Faggioli to reject traditional documents of the Church. He assumes there is known salvation outside the Church and then reject the past exclusivist ecclesiology. So it is then a rejection of the past ecumenism of return and the Syllabus of Errors.
3.
The same reasoning is used by Massimo Faggioli to reject traditional documents of the Church. He assumes there is known salvation outside the Church and then reject the past exclusivist ecclesiology. So it is then a rejection of the past ecumenism of return and the Syllabus of Errors.
-Lionel Andrades
NOVEMBER 9, 2014
John
Vennari, Cardinal Kaspar and so many others are misinterpreting these
Church documents and then repeating the error in Vatican Council II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/11/john-vennari-cardinal-kaspar-and-so.html
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