For him Lumen Gentium 8 etc refer to physically visible people, non Catholics, saved outside the Church without faith and the baptism of water.
For me LG 8 refers to physically invisible cases, they are only hypothetical and theoretical cases. Speculative. They are not practical examples of salvation outside the Church. So they are not objective exceptions for the dogma EENS. We cannot meet or see someone saved in 2013 outside the Catholic Church. They do not exist in our reality. Someone saved as such would be in Heaven and known only to God.
So Vatican Council II affirms the dogma EENS in LG 14/AG 7 (all need faith and baptism for salvation) and LG 8 etc are not exceptions for LG 14/ AG 7, for me.
So when Father Federico Montani and the SSPX priests and bishops project LG 8 etc as a break with Tradition it is dishonest. This is the liberal political interpretation of the Council. It is only possible when what is invisible is confused as being visible.So like Fr.Matthias Gaudron he confuses hypotheical passages in Vatican Council II as contradicting orthodox passages which support the dogma EENS: For the both of them 'the red is an exception for the blue'.
For them the Red is an exception for the Blue.
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."(17) Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6), yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16). - Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II
THE RED IS NOT AN EXCEPTION FOR THE BLUE.
14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism124 and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church…
Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II.
THE RED IS NOT AN EXCEPTION FOR THE BLUE.
The passage in Red refers to hypothetical and invisible cases in the present times. The passage in Blue are orthodox and support the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.The passages in Red do not contradict the passages in Blue.
- Lionel Andrades
QUESTI SONO RIFERIMENTI A CASI INVISIBILI NEL 2023. NON SONO ESEMPI VISIBILI DI SALVEZZA FUORI DALLA CHIESA. NON SONO ECCEZIONI OGGETTIVE PER IL DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS, IL CREDO DI ATANASIO E IL PROGRAMMA DEGLI ERRORI DI PAPA PIO IX.
Questa Chiesa, in questo mondo costituita e organizzata come società, sussiste nella Chiesa cattolica, governata dal successore di Pietro e dai vescovi in comunione con lui [13], ancorché al di fuori del suo organismo si trovino parecchi elementi di santificazione e di verità, che, appartenendo propriamente per dono di Dio alla Chiesa di Cristo, spingono verso l'unità cattolica. - Lumen Gentium 8, Vatican Council II.
I catecumeni che per impulso dello Spirito Santo desiderano ed espressamente vogliono essere incorporati alla Chiesa, vengono ad essa congiunti da questo stesso desiderio, e la madre Chiesa li avvolge come già suoi con il proprio amore e con le proprie cure.- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II.
The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation. – Unitatis Redintigratio 3 Vatican Council II
The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. – Nostra Aetate 2, Vatican Council II.
All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way. For, since Christ died for all men,(32) and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery.- Gaudium et Specs 22, Vatican Council II
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https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2023/01/the-minims-good-people-good-religious.html
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2023/02/minim-priests-and-religious-sisters-at.html
FEBRUARY 26, 2023
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