Comments from The Vortex — Heretic or Loyal Son - 1

Comments from

The Vortex — Heretic or Loyal Son

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4g5jc3dBTI&list=PL91feG5gFxM80FB-x7ZBqmNbz3c7Mk0p8

C M 2 days ago

Did or did he not accept and teach BoD and BoB? You're somehow excusing Father Feeney which if true he was excommunicated on wrong charges, whilst lambasting Archbishop Lefebvre whom also stayed faithful and his order of priests get told they are evil by you.

Lionel: He accepted them as hypothetical cases but not as exceptions to EENS. Since literally there are no known cases of the  baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and invincible ignorance(I.I) outside the Catholic Church. 

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Cleider Cordero Guzman 2 days ago

People need to realize that Baptism of Blood and Baptism of Desire are allowable theological opinions that have not been dogmatically defined by the Church. There have been many saints and doctors and theologians of the Church that have accepted or rejected one or the other. You guys need to relax and calm down and stop giving CM a bad name.

Lionel: None of the saints have said that they refer to known people saved outside the Church. The liberal theologians made this error in the Fr. Leonard Feeney case. They were supported by the Holy Office (CDF) 1949. The error was repeated at Vatican Council II.

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Bruce Haslam 2 days ago

Does this mean that all salvation and graces come through the Catholic Church and only goes to Catholics or does it go out to the whole world. And, based on invincible ignorance, believers can be saved. If we say only official Catholics can be saved. Then, the Divine Mercy phrase "Have. Mercy on us and on the Whole world" should be modified to "Have Mercy on us and all Catholics". Also, I have seen many non - Catholics that have had tremendous conversion experiences, where personal lives had dramatic change, overcoming sin and and perusing Jesus with all their hearts. I attribute these changes to the Holy Spirit. To do otherwise would mimic the Pharisees when they accused Jesus' good works to the Devil. Otherwise, if we say non-Catholics are experiencing conversion by the devil's hand. Then, Satan is divided and his house will fall.

Lionel. All salvation graces come through Jesus and His Mystical Body the Catholic Church. Only Catholics go to Heaven was the dogmatic teaching.
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Richard Genca 2 days ago (edited)

Three examples of Sainthood through Baptism by Blood, but not by Water: The Holy Innocents martyred by King Herod's soldiers; St. Emerentiana, foster-sister of St. Agatha, slain by pagans while she was still a Catechumen, therefore, never baptized by water; One of the guards who converted to the Faith when he witnessed the martyrdom of the ''40 Saints of Sebaste'', and then was immediately slain for being a Christian, but without any chance of receiving Baptism by water. Info from "Tradition in Action'' website.

Lionel: The dogma EENS says all need to be members of the Catholic Church for salvation. This is also the message in Vatican Council II (AG 7).There is no known cases of a St. Emerentiana in 2019. Neither can we say that she is in Heaven without the baptism of water. No one could have seen it.

If there are exceptions they would only be known  to God. But someone cannot be an exception to EENS who does not exist in our human reality.

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JL D 2 days ago

“An act of love is sufficient for the adult to obtain sanctifying grace and to supply the lack of baptism.” [Pope Pius XII Address to Midwives, 21a]. Was pope Pius XII a heretic?
Lionel: He is referring to a hypothetical case. He was not contradicting EENS.

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JL D 2 days ago

Very bad idea Michael! You are giving your ennemies a helping hand. You're giving them a stick to beat you with. Don't you know that the Feeneyites reject baptism of blood and baptism of desire taught in the St Pius X's catechism (Q. 17) and in CCC 1258 ?
Lionel: They do not reject BOD and BOB. Since they are hypothetical cases only. So they are not practical exceptions to EENS. There are no literal cases of BOD, BOB and I.I. This was also known to Fr. Leonard Feeney. -Lionel Andrades