Comments from The Vortex — Heretic or Loyal Son - 2

Jimmy Rumney 2 days ago

So Feenyism, which I have seen listed as a heresy, because it denied baptism by desire, is NOT a heresy? I first read about this, and bought it was great until the “h” word continued to pop up. Does this deny baptism by desire? 

Lionel: It is helpful to make the distinction between Feeneyism and Cushingism( according to L.A). With Cushingism the dogma EENS has exceptions of the BOD, BOB and I.I. This was rejected by Fr. Leonard Feeneyism.With Feeneyism( according to L.A) the dogma EENS does not have exceptions to BOD, BOB and I.I. 

Cushingism creates a heretical conclusion. Cushingism today is like the Arian heresy of the past. It has spread throughout the Catholic Church.

__________________________________

corran483 2 days ago

Not exactly. Fr. Feeney taught that a person could be justified by their desire for baptism, but that ALL persons who do not receive a sacramental (water) baptism are necessarily damned. If justification is synonymous with being in a state of grace, I don't understand how a person could be justified and be damned.

Lionel: All those who do not receive the baptism of water and who die without Catholic faith are damned, is the dogmatic teaching  of EENS.We cannot know of any one justified. This would only be known to God. So we must not confuse what is hypothetical as being relevant to EENS.

___________________________________

 

 

Jimmy Rumney 2 days ago

corran483 That makes sense. I just read an article in the Remnant Newspaper, by John Salza, and he used Feenyism as the extreme side of the no salvation outside the church doctrine. He compared it as the opposite of universalism like Father Baron promotes. If Feeny does not deny baptism by desire, I don’t understand the problem.

 Lionel: John Salza and the Society of St. Pius X priests and lay followers assume there are personally known cases of the BOD. So for them BOD, is an exception to EENS. Only since there are personally known people saved outside the Church can there be exceptions to EENS. This is Cushingite philosophy and theology. The conclusion is non traditional and heretical.

___________________________________

 

corran483 2 days ago

@Jimmy Rumney If I understand correctly, the problem is that Fr. Feeney taught that baptism by desire was not enough - it had to lead to a sacramental baptism or it would not lead to salvation. This contradicts the teaching of the Church found in CCC 1260.

Lionel: The reference to the baptism of desire is to a hypothetical case and not a real person known to be saved outside the Catholic Church, in the present times.

So Fr. Leonard Feeney  does not contradict CCC 1260 which refers to a hypothetical case i.e the man in ignorance. Personally we do not know any such person saved outside the Church.

 
1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."⁶³ Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
-Lionel Andrades