Tuesday, June 8, 2021

These two religious communities agree with me but they are not proclaiming the faith in public

 


The Joselitos Christo and Franciscans of Immaculate priests agree with me on the FIVE POINTS. But they are not affirming Vatican Council II without the false premise.Since it would mean that they affirm the Athanasius Creed, 16th century extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX.

These two religious communities agree with me but  they are not proclaiming the faith in public. - Lionel Andrades


 JUNE 5, 2021

Catholic priests in the parish Santa Maria di Nazareth, Casalotti, Rome agree with me on five points

In the parish Santa Maria di Nazareth, Casalotti, Boccea, Rome, near the Battistini Metro Station, there have been two religious communities housed there, the Joseleitos Christo and the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate.This is also the parish of Lionel Andrades according to his blog Eucharist and Mission( Lionel's Blog).The religious communities there agree with him on the following five points.

1.They agree that there are no physically visible cases of non Catholics saved with the baptism of desire over the last 60 years in Italy.If any one was saved as such it would only be known to God.
2.They agree that there are no physically visible non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance and without the baptism of water over the last 60 years in Italy.If any one was saved as such it would be known only to God.
3.The priests of the two religious communities agree with Lionel Andrades when he says that we do not know of any one in the present times who is saved as a martyr(baptism of blood)and without the baptism of water.If St.Emerentiana or Dismas, the Good Thief, was saved without the baptism of water,we do not know of any such case over the last few years or more in Italy.
4.So the baptism of desire,baptism of blood and invincible ignorance cannot be practical examples of salvation outside the Catholic Church.They cannot be practical exceptions for the Athanasius Creed.It says outside the Church there is no salvation.They cannot be practical exceptions for Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II, which says all need faith and baptism for salvation(to avoid Hell).
The Catholic priests agree on this point too.
5.So there can be nothing in Vatican Council II ( interpreted rationally) to contradict the Athanasius Creed and Pope Pius IX's Syllabus of Errors.Since LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2,GS 22 etc in Vatican Council II, can refer to only hypothetical cases.They are speculative. They are not practical exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus( Cantate Domino, Council of florence 1441 etc).
None of these FIVE POINTS are denied by the religious communities Joseleitos Christo and the Franciscans of the Immaculate in the parish Santa Maria di Nazareth.This is the parish in which Pope Francis closed down the seminary of the Franciscans of the Immaculate.-Lionel Andrades


 JUNE 4, 2021

They agree with me : A Catholic should be elected Mayor of Rome : Vatican Council II must be the test of being a Catholic

 The priests of the Joseleitos de Christo community at the church Santa Maria di Nazareth, Casalotti, Boccea, Rome, in principle agree that there are no objective examples of salvation outside the Catholic Church in 2021.There are no practical exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) in the present times (1965-2021).There are no physically visible cases of non Catholics, saved with the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and invincible ignorance and without the baptism of water and Catholic faith.We cannot see or meet someone who is an exception to the norm for salvation i.e faith and baptism (Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II).This was also the view of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, who were last year in this parish. They too agree with me.The Rector of Francisican Friar seminary in the parish was Fr. Rosario Sammarco f.i and Parish Priest, Fr.Giuseppe Grioni f.i.The seminary is closed and the building is under the management of the Comitato dell Immaculata, set up originally by Fr. Stefano Mannelli f.i.

In the parish today the Parish Priest Fr.Francisco  De Barros Barbosa, sjc in public interprets Vatican Council II with the false premise. If he did not use the false premise, Vatican Council II (AG 7) would affirm the past ecumenism of return to the Catholic Church, an exclusivist ecclesiology, the old traditional theology of outside the Church there is no salvation and the need to proclaim the Social Reign of Christ the King in all national politics in Italy.

However he agrees with me - there are no objective exceptions to EENS. There are no physically visible cases of non Catholics saved with the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and invincible ignorance and without the baptism of water and Catholic faith.

The priests of the Joseleitos di Christo and Franciscans of the Immaculate need to tell Catholics and especially parishioners, to vote only for candidates for the Mayor's office in Rome, who interpret Vatican Council II without the false premise.They would be true Catholics. With Vatican Council II ( rational) they would be affirming EENS.So based upon EENS they could proclaim the Social Reign of Christ the King ( Quas Primas ) in all political legislation.Since outside the Church there is no known salvation the priority is that all accept the norm for salvation-faith and the baptism of water in the Catholic Church, to avoid Hell.

We all agree that if there was any one saved outside the Catholic Church it could only be known to God.So Catholic faith and the baptism of water is still the norm and the priority to go to Heaven and avoid Hell for all people with no known exceptions.-Lionel Andrades


JUNE 3, 2021

In my parish the priests interpret Vatican Council II irrationally instead of rationally even after being informed.

 In my parish the priests interpret Vatican Council II irrationally instead of rationally even after being informed.The traditional conclusion of the Council, interpreted without the false premise is too much for them. - Lionel Andrades


JUNE 2, 2021

In my parish the priests do not affirm the Athanasius Creed.

In may parish, Santa Maria di Nazareth, Casalotti, Boccea, Rome, the priests do not affirm the Athanasius Creed. They change the meaning of the Nicene and Apostles Creed with the use of a false premise.They re-interpret Vatican Council II with the same fake premise and change the interpretations of all the Catechisms.They do consider this a mortal sin of faith.They about 'new information' and 'being open' and 'following Pope Francis'. Do they believe in the secrecy of the Sacrament of Confession ? Really? Why ? -Lionel Andrades

 JUNE 1, 2021

Often it is the pope who transfers conservative religious. This time it was a lay organisation which transferred liberal religious, in Rome.

 In the parish of Santa Maria di Nazareth, Casalotti, Boccea, Pope Francis closed down the seminary of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate in Rome.The seminary building and adjoining property is now held by the Comitato dell Immaculata, formed by Fr. Stefano Manelli f.i.

They objected to the presence of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculata.They had been there since Pope Francis shuttered the original seminary of Fr. Manelli.

So the Franciscans Friars of the Immaculate  no more live at Casalotti.They do not any more  offer Holy Mass there.

Often it is the pope who transfers conservative religious. This time it was a lay organisation which had the liberal religious, in Rome,tranferred.

I attend Holy Mass in Italian and affirm Catholic Tradition as a lay Catholic.There is no more a Latin Mass in the parish or even the adjoining area.

I affirm the Athanasius Creed (Whoever desires to be saved should above all hold to the catholic faith.Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally...).

I affirm the Nicene and Apostles Creed, interpreted without a fake premise. So my interpretation of these two Creeds would be different from that of the present Parish Priest Fr. Francesco Barbosa, of the Brazilian Societa Joselitos Christo.

The Rector of the seminary at Casalotti, was Fr. Rosario Sammarco f.i.He now offers Mass at St.Mary Majors and remains the rector of the seminary in  Tiburtina,Rome.

Fr.Rosario Samarco would reject the Athanasius Creed.He would interpret Vatican Council II with a false premise.It would be the same for the seminarians.It is the same for the Joselitos Chrito priests and the Italian diocesan priests.They are following the instructions of Vatican and the Rome Vicariate. 

I accept Vatican Council II and interpret it without the false premise. So my interpretation of the Council would not be a rupture with Tradition( Athanasius Creed etc).The priests and religious communities in the parish and diocese, interpret the Council with the false premise. So our Profession of Faith will be different. Since our premises are different the Religious will emerge non traditional and I traditional.

I accept the baptism of desire(BOD) and invincible ignorance(I.I).I do not reject them or deny them.For me they refer to hypothetical and theoretical cases only.They can only be hypothetical and theoretical in our human reality.Since if any one was saved with BOD and I.I it would only be known to God.So for me, BOD and I.I are not examples of known people in the present times ( 1965-2021), saved outside the Catholic Church.I cannot meet or see someone saved with BOD or I.I.So when Vatican Council II refers to BOD(LG 14) and I.I(LG 16), it is always a reference to a hypothetical and theoretical case which exists only in our mind.It cannot be a practical exception to EENS, as EENS was known to the Church Fathers and the missionaries in the 16th century.

For me the Holy Office 1949 made an objective mistake in the Letter to the Archbishop of Boston relative to Fr. Leonard Feeney.How can BOD and I.I be practical exceptions to Feeneyite EENS ?

So our interpretation of BOD and I.I would also be different. I would affirm an EENS with no exceptions and they would affirm an EENS with exceptions.

It is not known how the seminary building will be used. The original community of the Fransciscans Friars of the Immaculate are not seen here.-Lionel Andrades

 JUNE 2, 2021

I affirm the Athanasius Creed

 I affirm the Athanasius Creed,interpret the Nicene and Apostles Creed rationally,interpret Vatican Council II in harmony with 16th century extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) and do not use the false premise to interpret the Catechisms of Trent, Baltimore, Pius X, John Paul II etc.The Catechism of the Catholic Church is not a break with Tradition for me.I do not employ the false premise, inference and conclusion of cardinals Ratzinger and Schonborn.I interpret Vatican Council II rationally with the hermeneutic of continity with Feeneyite EENS, the Deposit of Faith and the popes and saints of the past.My interpretation of Church document is Magisterial,since it is rational, traditional and in harmony with the past Magisterium of the Catholic Church.The present two popes interpretation of Magisterial documents with the false premise is not Magisterial. It is political. -Lionel Andrades

MAY 13, 2021

Pope Francis had to close down the Franciscans of the Immaculate seminary and force the seminarians to study at the pontifical universities in Rome.There they had to interpret Vatican Council II, the Creeds and Catechisms with the false premise, inference and non traditional conclusion.They had to accept this leftist, political interpretation of the Council .Now they teach it to others

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/05/pope-francis-had-to-close-down.html

MAY 30, 2021

In my parish the priests have changed the meaning of the Nicene and Apostles Creed and rejected the Athanasius Creed and they offer Holy Mass in Italian. They interpret Vatican Council II with a false premise to project a non traditional conclusion and then then offer Holy Mass.

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/05/in-my-parish-priests-have-changed.html

MAY 30, 2021

In my parish the priests reject the Athanasius Creed, change the Nicene and Apostles Creed and re-interpet Vatican Council II irrationally and do not deny it. They agree with me!

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/05/in-my-parish-priests-reject-athanasius.html

MAY 29, 2021

Scandal at my parish

 


I affirm the Athanasius Creed (Whoever desires to be saved should above all hold to the catholic faith.Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally...)in the parish but the priests and many of the parishioners do not do the same.

I live in the parish, Santa Maria di Nazareth, Casalotti, Boccea.It is a 20-minute drive from Rome's Battistini Metro Station.How can they offer/attend Holy Mass and not affirm the infallible teaching of the Athanasius Creed?

I affirm Vatican Council II interpreted rationally in the parish but the priests and most of the parishioners do not do so.

For me LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc are practical exceptions for the Athanasius Creed. In other words, they refer to known non Catholics saved outside the Church. They refer to physically visible people saved without faith and the baptism of water.Invisible and unknown people cannot be exceptions to the Creed. So with this irrationality they make the Athanasius Creed obsolete.

My interpretation of Vatican Council II is rational and traditional.It is not a break with the Creeds.

How can the priests and people offer/attend Holy Mass with an irrational interpretation of Vatican Council II etc ?

When the priests and people in the parish do not affirm the Athanasius Creed and Vatican Council II, do they no have to go for the Sacrament of Confession, end the scandal and correct themselves in public ?

For me the baptism of desire(BOD) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) refer to hypothetical and theoretical cases only. I cannot meet or see someone saved as such.It is only God who can know if someone is saved with BOD and I.I. So there are no practical cases of BOD and I.I for me.There are also no practical exceptions to the past Magisterial ecclesiocentrism of the Catholic Church.

But with visible for them,BOD and I.I, the priests and catechists and others in the parish, reject the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).

They change the interpretation of Vatican Council II.Since for them, LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, etc  contradict the dogma EENS. There are practical exceptions for them.

So they have rejected the dogma EENS and the Athanasius Creed which says outside the Church there is no salvation.

They have changed the meaning of the Nicene Creed. It is " I believe in three or more known baptisms for the forgiveness of sins and they exclude the baptism of water in the Catholic Church( so EENS is rejected)".

They have changed the meaning of the Apostles Creed. It is " I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church,'which teaches the Catholic Church today that there is known salvation outside the Church and so the Creeds and Catechisms are obsolete in their old understanding".

They have changed the meaning of the First Commandment which now indicates for them that outside the Catholic Church there is known salvation and so there is true worship in non Christian religions.

This is public heresy, scandal and schism and Holy Mass is offered/ attended, by all in the parish.

This scandal has to be rectified in public, before absolution is given in the Confessional. -Lionel Andrades

https://www.smnazaret.it/

MAY 28, 2021

Priests are expected to affirm the Athanasius Creed in the parish. Vatican Council II according to Lionel Andrades is not a rupture

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/05/priests-are-expected-to-affirm.html


MAY 27, 2021

Questions and Answers about the Lionel Andrades interpretation of Vatican Council II ( Updated )

 


Questions and Answers about the Lionel Andrades interpretation of Vatican Council II (Updated)



QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT THE LIONEL ANDRADES INTERPRETATION OF VATICAN COUNCIL II

What's so special about the Lionel Andrades interpretation of Vatican Council II ?

Ir does not use the common fake premise.It's a simple, rational and different way to read Vatican Council II.

What's so special about the Lionel Andrades interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS)?
It does not use the common false premise to interpret the baptism of desire(BOD), invincible ignorance(I.I) and the baptism of blood(BOB).So there are no practical exceptions for EENS.EENS is traditonal and BOD, BOB and I.I are interpreted rationally.It's not EENS or BOB,BOB and I.I. Since the latter are not exceptions for the former.

Is the Lionel Andrades interpretation of Magisterial documents copy writed or trademarked? No. Any one can use it. There is no charge.It is simply going back to the traditiional interpretation of Church documents, without the false premise. The false premise came into the Church in a big way, with the Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston relative to Fr. Leonard Feeney(1949).

How did the Lionel Andrades interpretation of VC 2 emerge?
He kept writing on his blog on EENS and then discovered that Vatican Council II does not really contradict EENS if the false premise is avoided.

Is the LA interpretation of VC2 a new theology?
No. It is going back to the old, traditional theology of the Catholic Church by avoiding the false premise.It is the false premise which has created the New Theology.Without the false premise there cannot be the New Ecumenism, New Evangelisation, New Ecclesiology etc.The New Theology is Cristocentric without the past ecclesiocentrism of the Church.Since exceptions were created to EENS, the Athanasius Creed, the Syllabus of Errors etc, by projecting a false premise.The error was overlooked by the popes.

What about traditional, 16th century Mission doctrine?
With the Lionel Andrades interpretation of Vatican Council II we return to traditional Mission doctrine. It is no more 'only they need to enter the Church who know about it', who are not in invincible ignorance(LG 14) Instead, it is all need to enter the Catholic Church with no known exception.Invincible ignorance is not an exception to all needing to enter the Church with faith and the baptism(LG 14).So we evangelize since all non Catholics are oriented to Hell without faith and the baptism of water( Ad Gentes 7/Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II. The norm for salvation is faith and baptism and not invincible ignorance.When I meet a non Catholic, I cannot assume or pretend to know, that he or she is an exception to the norm. If there is an exception it could be known only to God.I know that the non Catholic before me, is oriented to Hell( Athanasius Creed, Vatican Council II(AG 7, LG 14),Catechism of the Catholic Church(845,846,1257),Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX, etc).

What about the hermeneutic of continuity or rupture with Tradition ?
With the Lionel Andrades interpretation of Vatican Council II there is no rupture with past Magisterium documents and neither do they contradict each other.We have to re-interpret past Magisterial documents though, which mention the baptism of desire(BOD) and invincible ignorance(I.I), as being hypothetical and invisible always.Being saved with BOD and I.I are always physically invisible, when they are mentioned in the Catechisms( Trent, Pius X etc) and encyclicals and documents of the popes(Mystici Corporis etc).They always refer to hypothetical cases only and are not objectively known non Catholics.If someone is saved outside the Church he or she could only be known to God.This has to be clear when reading also the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston.There is also no confusion when reading the text of Vatican Council II.LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3,NA 2,GS 22 etc, refer always to only hypothetical cases and so they do not contradict the Athanasius Creed.

Should the popes use the Lionel Andrades interpretation of Vatican Council II ?
YES! Since presently the two popes are schismatic, heretical, non Magisterial and non traditional on Vatican Council II.It has to be this way since they use the false premise.It is only with the false premise, inference and conclusion that they interpret Magisterial documents. This can be avoided with a rational premise, inference and traditional conclusion.The result is a hermeneutic of continuity with Tradition.

What other advantage is there in knowing the Lionel Andrades interpretation of Vatican Council II ?
We read the text of Vatican Council II in general differently with the Lionel Andrades interpretation of Vatican Council II.
’The red is not an exception to the blue’.The hypothetical passages( marked in red on the blog Eucharist and Mission, are not practical exceptions to the orthodox passages in Vatican Council II which support EENS, and are marked in blue.
For the present two popes and the traditionalists the red is an exception to the blue. This is irrational.

What bearing does it have on the liturgy ?
Without the false premise the Council is traditional. Vatican Council II is in harmony with extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to the missionaries in the 16th century.So we are back to the past ecclesiocentric ecclesiology of the Catholic Church. When the Council is traditional there is no 'development of doctrine' or 'sprit of Vatican Council II'. Collegiality, Religious Freedom and ecumenism are no more an issue. So receiving Holy Communion on the hand can no more be justified with Vatican Council II.Neither can the Eucharist be given to the divorced and re-married, in the name of the Council.
Neither can the German Synod be justified by citing Vatican Council II.There is no theological basis in the Council, any more, for given the Eucharist to Protestants during Holy Mass.-Lionel Andrades

Fake premise
Lumen Gentium 8,Lumen Gentium 14, Lumen Gentium 16 etc in Vatican Council II refer to physically visible cases in 1965-2021.

Fake inference
They are objective examples of salvation outside the Church.

Fake conclusion
Vatican Council II contradicts the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).The Athanasius Creed(outside the Church there is no salvation) and the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX ( ecumenism of return) were made obsolete.

Here is my interpretation of Vatican Council II in blue.

Rational Premise
LG 8, LG 14, LG 16 etc in Vatican Council II refer to physically invisible cases in 1965-2021.They are only hypothetical and theoretical. They exist only in our mind and are not solid bodies at Newton's level of time, space and matter.

Rational Inference
They are not objective examples of salvation outside the Church for us human beings.

Rational Conclusion
Vatican Council II does not contradict EENS as it was interpreted by the Jesuits in the Middle Ages.It does not contradict the strict interpretation of EENS of St. Thomas Aquinas( saved in invincible ignorance is invisible), St. Augustine and Fr. Leonard Feeney of Boston.
The Letter of the Holy Office(Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) 1949 made an objective mistake.-Lionel Andrades


Lionel Andrades
Promoter of the Lionel Andrades interpretation of Vatican Council II.
Catholic lay man in Rome,
Writer on the discovery of the two interpretations of Vatican Council II, one is rational and the other is irrational, one is interpreted with the false premise and the other without it. One is Magisterial and the other, the common one, is non Magisterial.
It is the same for the Creeds and Catechisms.There can be two interpretations.
Why should Catholics choose an irrational version which is heretical, non traditional and schismatic, when a rational option is there which is traditional ?
Blog: Eucharist and Mission (eucharistandmission )
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