I have received a message from the Public Relations Office of Human Life International repeating the earlier message of a few days back.
Deborah Piroch, states:-
You have your answer. Our priests support exactly what is written in the Catechism and as stated by the Catholic Church.
This is not the issue. I agree that the priests at HLI say that they support what is written in the Catechism of the Catholic Church , the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith say the same and so do I.
The issue is : do the HLI priests interpret the red passages as being exceptions to the blue passages? Since then their conclusion would be different from mine. For me the red passages are not examples of salvation outside the Church. So they cannot be exceptions to the blue passages. This is also how the St. Benedict Center in New Hampshire interprets Magisterial documents.
But for the HLI the hypothetical cases mentioned in magisterial documents are non hypothetical.It is the same for the CDF. But for me they are just hypothetical.This is common sense. It is also the way the popes and saints over the centuries looked at exclusive salvation in the Church.
But for the HLI the hypothetical cases mentioned in magisterial documents are non hypothetical.It is the same for the CDF. But for me they are just hypothetical.This is common sense. It is also the way the popes and saints over the centuries looked at exclusive salvation in the Church.
Here is an example:
DISTURBING POINTS
1
TWO QUESTIONS
1) We cannot meet or see someone saved in invincible ignorance (I.I), baptism of desire(BOD) and baptism of blood(BOB) in 2019.We cannot physically see people saved in Heaven?
2) Since there are no cases of I.I,BOD, BOB in our reality, they cannot be examples of salvation outside the Church.They are not exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) ?
2
TWO INTERPRETATIONS OF THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
See this text in the Catechism of the Catholic Church(846-848). The red passages do not contradict the blue passage . If the redcontradicts the blue, you are irrational. It is an irrational interpretation.
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
- Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door.Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
- Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."
-Lionel Andrades
__________________
There is no denial from the HLI. They interpret the two questions irrationally and they also interpret the Catechism of the Catholic Church with the red being an exception to the blue.This is also how Deborah interprets the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
They make the same objective error in the interpretation of Vatican Council II.
Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it." Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him...- Ad Gentes 7. Vatican Council II 1
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/02/times-have-changed-for-cardinal-kasper.html
There is no denial from the HLI . The HLI actually admit they are irrational and heretical. This is a scandal and the priests offer Holy Mass in this condition.They say that this is what the Church teaches.They ignore those of us who interpret Church documents rationally and non heretically do not teach this.They also ignore that they supportg a lie and this is deception.They are also a rupture with the past Magisterium, for example, in the 16th century.
-Lionel Andrades
- From the right hand tags/ Click to access
- Graphics ( Red does not contradict the blue) (15)
1
The red is not an exception to the blue, the red does not contradict the blue : Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-red-is-not-exception-to-blue-red.html
APRIL 7, 2019
APRIL 6, 2019
Journalists ask HLI these two questions
APRIL 6, 2019
Human Life International dishonestAPRIL 4, 2019
No denial from Fr.Shehan Boquet, President, Human Life International : unethical and deceptive : PR office responds
APRIL 5, 2019
Pro abortion women could note that Fr.Shehan Boquet, President, Human Light International, USA is politically incorrect with the Left on abortion and contraception but not on salvation and Catholic faith
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/04/pro-abortion-women-could-note-that.html
_______________________________________
EXAMPLES OF THE HYPOTHETICAL REFERENCES IN THE CATECHISM WHICH FOR HUMAN LIFE INTERNATIONAL STAFF ARE NOT HYPOTHETICAL.
1. 'God is not limited to the Sacraments'(CCC 1257)
'2.all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body'(CC(CCC 846).
3. Those 'justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians'(CCC 818).
4. They are 'joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."(CCC 838).
5. 'the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims'(CCC 841).
1. 'God is not limited to the Sacraments'(CCC 1257)
'2.all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body'(CC(CCC 846).
3. Those 'justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians'(CCC 818).
4. They are 'joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."(CCC 838).
5. 'the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims'(CCC 841).
EXAMPLES OF HYPOTHETICAL REFERENCES IN VATICAN COUNCIL II WHICH FOR THE HLI ARE NOT HYPOTHETICAL.
1. 'elements of sanctification and truth'in other religions(LG 8),
2..'good and holy' things in other religions(NA 2),
3..'a ray of that Truth which enlightens' all men(NA 2),
4.'imperfect communion with the Church(UR 3),
5.' people of good will in other religions'(GS 22),
6.' seeds of the Word'(AG 11),
7.'invincible ignorance'(LG 16),
8.'a good conscience'(LG 16) etc.
2..'good and holy' things in other religions(NA 2),
3..'a ray of that Truth which enlightens' all men(NA 2),
4.'imperfect communion with the Church(UR 3),
5.' people of good will in other religions'(GS 22),
6.' seeds of the Word'(AG 11),
7.'invincible ignorance'(LG 16),
8.'a good conscience'(LG 16) etc.
HYPOTHETICAL REFERENCES IN THE LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE 1949 TO THE ARCHBISHOP OF BOSTON WHICH FOR THE PRIESTS AT HLI ARE NOT HYPOTHETICAL.
1.Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.(we do not know who this person is in particular so it is a hypothetical case.)
2.In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects, necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man's final end, not by intrinsic necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing.(we do not know any one in particular as such so this is a hypothetical case.)
3.Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.( if there is any such person he or she would only be known to God. So this passage is irrelevant to the dogma EENS. It cannot be an exception.Since it is a reference to an invisible person for us.)
4.However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.(it is a reference to an unknown catechumen)
5.For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are actually incorporated into the Church as members, and those who are united to the Church only by desire.( and we do not know any in particular.So this is a theoretical and hypothetical reference) -Lionel Andrades
___________________________________
Posts
No comments:
Post a Comment