'You quote Magisterial documents stating that no man is excluded from salvation and then you declare that one must be a formal explicit member of the Catholic Church to be saved!'

Jim: There you go again, such astounding disingenuousness in distorting the traditional axiom: Nulla salus extra Ecclesiam. You quote Magisterial documents stating that no man is excluded from salvation and then you declare that one must be a formal explicit member of the Catholic Church to be saved!

Lionel: Please read Dominus Iesus 20.It says salvation is universal, open to all BUT to receive this salvation one needs to enter the Church.

Jim: Then you opine that no one can know that any particular non-Catholic person can be in heaven, but declare with certainty that Mohammed is in Hell. Really, you seem to know much more than the Catholic Church itself.

Lionel: We know for sure that some sins lead to Hell. Some sins orient a person to Hell.

The Bible tells us that some sins will prevent people from seeing the Kingdom of God. So we know Mohammad and other Muslims are oriented to Hell.

We also have the teaching of the Church's Magisterium indicating the same. (Cantate Domino, Ad Gentes 7 etc)

Jim : Please answer:

If I say YES, there are those in Heaven now who never heard of Christ and His Church and its teachings, would that be the same as you saying: “Yes, this is what we believe IN PRINCIPLE” ???

Lionel. Yes this is what we believe in principle (theoretically).

There can be people who we believe are not members of the Church and they can be in Heaven. God would send a preacher to tell them about the Faith or have them baptized with water. Some could return from the dead to be baptized with water as has been the experience of many saints who have administered water baptism to those returning from the dead. In Heaven there are only Catholics.

Jim :

Only theoretically?

One is obliged to ask further : “Are there actually in heaven among the saints those who never had knowledge of Christ and His teachings?”

Lionel : Yes! This is what we believe in principle.There can be such people. However St.Thomas Aquinas says that God will provide the necessary helps so that they are Catholics before they die.

In principle, theoretically he can be saved. This is a possibility the Church has always accepted.

But the Church does not claim to know such people in real life. Not even one case. So please do not assume that someone is in this category this month.

The question is : is there one person this month in Heaven who never had knowledge of Christ and His teachings? You have not said Yes.