The Council Fathers made a mistake. The same mistake is being made today by Archbishop Carlo Vigano, Peter Kwasniewski and the present two popes.They are Cushingite. Cushingism is responsible for the hermeneutic of rupture with Tradition(EENS, Syllabus etc).

 There is also another aspect that, in my view, should not be overlooked; namely, that the hermeneutical criterion – seen in the context of a serious and scientific criticism of a text – cannot disregard the concept that the text means to express. Indeed, it is not possible to impose a Catholic interpretation on a proposition that, in itself, is manifestly heretical or close to heresy, simply because it is included in a text that has been declared magisterial. Lumen Gentium’s proposition: “But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind” (LG, 16) cannot be interpreted in a Catholic way – firstly, because the god of Mohammed is not one and triune, and secondly because Islam condemns as blasphemous the Incarnation of the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity in Our Lord Jesus Christ, true God and true Man. To affirm that “the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator” and that “in the first place amongst these there are the Muslims” blatantly contradicts Catholic doctrine, which professes that the Catholic Church is the one and only ark of salvation. The salvation eventually attained by heretics, and by pagans even more so, always and only comes from the inexhaustible treasure of Our Lord’s Redemption, which is safeguarded by the Church. While belonging to any other religion is an impediment to the pursuit of eternal beatitude. Those who are saved, are saved because of at least an implicit desire to belong to the Church, and despite their adherence to a false religion – never by virtue of it. For what good it contains does not belong to it, but has been usurped; while the error it contains is what makes it intrinsically false, since the admixture of errors and truth more easily deceives its followers.-Archbishop Carlo Vigano, Viganò: How is it that the Bible and all Church documents can be questioned except Vatican II?

Lionel : 

The salvation eventually attained by heretics, and by pagans even more so, always and only comes from the inexhaustible treasure of Our Lord’s Redemption, which is safeguarded by the Church. 

The false premise is being used by Archbishop Carlo Vigano here(above).Since the baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and invincible ignorance(I.I) are exceptions to Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS),for him,  he suggests that non Catholics are saved in their religions, including pagan religions.

This is the New Theology of Rahner and Ratzinger based upon the false premise.

For me BOD,BOB and I.I are not exceptions to EENS. There are no known cases of non Catholics being saved outside the Church.Practically I cannot know of any such case.

So theoretically, Archbishop Vigano could be hoping that non Catholics are saved outside the Church and practically he postulates exceptions to EENS.This is false. Practically there cannot be exceptions to EENS in the present times.

Yet this  error  has been the teaching of the popes and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. This was the thinking of the Council Fathers at Vatican Council II. For them too, BOD,BOB and I.I were exceptions to exclusive salvation in the Church. This was also the thinking of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

For all of them the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 was correct and Fr. Leonard Feeney of Boston was wrong.This was being politically correct with the Left.

So Lumen Gentium 16 states :“But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind” (LG, 16)

This is the New Theology of the Lefebvrists too.

Now we have to look at LG 16 and say that this is a reference to a hypothetical case. So it is not an exception to exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.This is the Feeneyite approach.

 The Council Fathers made a mistake here. The same mistake is being made today by Archbishop Carlo Vigano, Peter Kwasniewski and the present two popes.They are Cushingite. Cushingism is responsible for the hermeneutic of rupture with Tradition(EENS, Syllabus etc).-Lionel Andrades

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/vigano-how-is-it-that-the-bible-and-all-church-documents-can-be-questioned-except-vatican-ii

Canons of Trent, the Syllabus of Errors of Blessed Pius IX, the encyclical Pascendi of St. Pius X, and Humanae Vitae and Ordinatio Sacerdotalis of Paul VI are “outdated” since for Archbishop Carlo Vigano and the Lefebvrists the false premise is the norm

 We have read endless addresses in which the defenders of the Council have defined the Canons of Trent, the Syllabus of Errors of Blessed Pius IX, the encyclical Pascendi of St. Pius X, and Humanae Vitae and Ordinatio Sacerdotalis of Paul VI as “outdated.” -Archbishop Carlo Vigano 1

Lionel: Yes they are outdated since Vatican Council II is interpreted by the Lefebvrists, liberals and popes with a false premise and so there is a non traditional conclusion which contradicts exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.

The Lefebvrists have exchanged extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) with no exceptions for EENS with exceptions.

They have exchanged hypothetical cases of the baptism of desire(BOD) and invincible ignorance (I.I) with non hypothetical and objective BOD and I.I, examples of salvation outside the Church. So the past ecclesiology is obviously outdated and obsolete.

When for Cardinal Ratzinger the Syllabus of Errors and 16th century EENS was no more relevant it was because of 'the development in Vatican Council II', in other words, LG 16 etc were visible examples of salvation outside the Church and exceptions to the old theology. He meant it. He was sincere.It made sense for him. -Lionel Andrades

1

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/vigano-how-is-it-that-the-bible-and-all-church-documents-can-be-questioned-except-vatican-ii

Vatican Council II can be interpreted in harmony with Tradition when the Lefebvrists and liberals do not use the false premise. However even if the Council were to be annulled, as it is suggested, there still is the issue of affirming exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church. This is not being done by Archbishop Carlo Vigano and Peter Kwasniewski.

 

First, it seems to me that I can agree with practically all of what Kwasniewski has written: his analysis of the facts is extremely clear and polished and reflects my thoughts exactly. What I am particularly pleased about is that “ever since Archbishop Viganò’s June 9 letter and his subsequent writing on the subject, people have been discussing what it might mean to ‘annul’ the Second Vatican Council”.-Archbishop Carlo Vigano 1

Lionel : Vatican Council II can be interpreted in harmony with Tradition when the Lefebvrists and liberals do not use the false premise.

However even if the Council were to be annulled, as it is suggested, there still is the issue of affirming exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church. This is not being done by Archbishop Carlo Vigano and Peter Kwasniewski.

Like Archbishop Marcdel Lefebvre they use the false premise to interpret Vatican Council II.They also use the false premise to interpret the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and invincible ignorance. So they create a new false interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus whcih is a rupture with Tradition.It is EENS Cushingite and not EENS, Feeneyite.

So they are still not affirming Tradition, irrespective of how they interpret Vatican Council II. With the false premise they contradict the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX.

With the false premise they support the New Theology, New Rcumenism and New Ecclesiology.This is all heresy. It is schism with the past popes and the Church Fathers.-Lionel Andrades

1

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/vigano-how-is-it-that-the-bible-and-all-church-documents-can-be-questioned-except-vatican-ii

When I say that conservative and traditionalist communities and organisations should affirm Vatican Council II I am not saying say the red and do the black.I am not saying fake it.

 

When I say that conservative and traditionalist communities and organisations should affirm Vatican Council II I am not saying say the red and do the black.I am not saying fake it.

Vatican Council II affirms Tradition when you interpret it as I do. I would say the red does not contradict the blue. This is the key to interpreting the Council.

• The red Cushingite passages do not contradict the blue Feeneyite ones.

The beautiful pro Feeneyite passages in the Council are not contradicted, by the hypothetical Cushingite passages, which came to the Council from the error in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.So we are left with only Feeneyite passages in the Council-text. - Lionel Andrades

FEBRUARY 28, 2019

Catechism of the Catholic Church supports Fr. Leonard Feeney

The Catechism of the Catholic Church supports Fr. Leonard Feeney.It supports the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).It affirms EENS with the citation from Ad Gentes 7 ( all need faith and baptism for salvation) and we know that invincible ignorance, the baptism of desire and being saved with the baptism of blood refer to hypothetical cases, invisible in 2019 and so are not exceptions to AG 7 and EENS.


So with Feeneyite EENS intact we still have traditional mission.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is in harmony with the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS), the past exclusive ecclesiology, an ecumenism of return and the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX.There are no objective exceptions to EENS mentioned in the Catechism.It means all non Catholics are oriented to Hell and not just those who know about Jesus and the Church.

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF) needs to tell Catholics that all need to be members of the Catholic Church for salvation and there are no known exceptions.

They need to tell young Catholics that outside the Catholic Church there is no known salvation.Those who die outside the Church are on the way to Hell.

This has been the teaching of the Church for centuries, based on Scripture and Tradition according to Vatican Council II (AG 7).We cannot separate Jesus from membership in the Catholic Church, for salvation( to avoid Hell).

But this is not how Pope Benedict, the CDF, the SSPX and the traditionalists interpret the Catechism of the Catholic Church and Vatican Council II.Vatican Council II and the many Catechisms are really Feeneyite.

Pope Benedict did not tell Michel Bohnke, the theologian, that Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church support the strict interpretation of the dogma outside the Church there is no salvation and so is the basis for mission to the Jews.Bohnke criticized the pope and accused him of  advocating proselytism (trying to convert Jews).

There is nothing in CCC 846-848 to contradict EENS, the past exclusivist ecclesiology and an ecumenism of return.

The following passage in red is hypothetical and not a reference to a concrete and known non Catholic saved outside the Church.

While the passage in blue affirms extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.-Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II

The red is not an exception to the blue, the red does not contradict the blue : Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848

"Outside the Church there is no salvation" 
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: 

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: 

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."

-Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848 

The passages in red refer to hypothetical cases, theoretical possibilities and not personally known non Catholics saved outside the Church in the present times(2019).

The passage in blue agrees with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) which says all need to be members of the Catholic Church, for salvation, all need faith and baptism to avoid the fires of Hell.

The passage in blue is the norm for salvation in the Catholic Church, it is the rule on how to go to Heaven, for all people,  as taught to the Church over the centuries, by the Holy Spirit.

For there to be an exception there would have to be a person saved outside the Church who is known and physically visible. An invisible person who does not exist in our reality cannot be an objective excepton to all needing to be members of the Catholic Church for salvation.

So the passages in red are hypothetical only, always. They can only be hypothetical.

So Catholics still have traditional mission to all non Catholics, based on the traditional interpretation of exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church. This is supported by the Church Fathers and Vatican Council II and the Catechisms.-Lionel Andrades

_________________________________

JANUARY 26, 2019

    

The Catechism of the Catholic Church affirms the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus : CDF makes a mistake

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-catechism-of-catholic-church.html

JANUARY 27, 2019

Pope Benedict never said that Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church tell us all need faith and baptism for salvation and so they support the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/pope-benedict-never-said-that-vatican.html

JANUARY 26, 2019

The red is not an exception to the blue, the red does not contradict the blue : Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-red-is-not-exception-to-blue-red.html

JANUARY 25, 2019

For me the red does not contradict the blue so there is a hermeneutic of continuity with Tradition ( Graphics)

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/for-me-red-does-not-contrradict-blue-so.html

In a prepared statement for the press the former Jesuit(Fr.Leonard Feeney) added: "The conscience difficulty is that the diocese of Boston, under the auspices of Archbishop Cushing, and Boston College, under the auspices of Father John J. McEloney, S.J., both notably ignorant in the field of Catholic theology ... are teaching that there is salvation outside the Catholic Church." - Father Feeney Is Dismissed From Jesuit Order by Rome
 http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1949/10/29/father-feeney-is-dismissed-from-jesuit/ 

 FEBRUARY 28, 2019

No Magisterial document contradicts Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus( EENS)

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/02/no-magisterial-document-contradicts_28.html

 FEBRUARY 15, 2019

CDF could ask Cardinal Muller and Bishop Schneider to interpret the Catechism of the Catholic Church rationally

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/02/cdf-could-ask-cardinal-muller-and.html

FEBRUARY 13, 2019

Cardinal Gerhard Muller cites the Catechism of the Catholic Church but does not say that it affirms the strict interpretation of salvation

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/02/cardinal-gerhard-muller-cites-catechism.html

 FEBRUARY 9, 2019

It is Vatican Council II which is part of the seismic shift. It has changed before our very eyes ( Graphics )

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/02/it-is-vatican-council-ii-which-is-part.html

FEBRUARY 9, 2019

The red is not an exception to the blue' : new extraordinary understanding of Vatican Council II

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/02/the-red-is-not-exception-to-blue-new.html

 FEBRUARY 5, 2019

Catholic media does not say that Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church affirm the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/02/catholic-media-does-not-say-that.html

FEBRUARY 4, 2019

Bishop Peter Libasci and the CDF will not place Brother Andre Marie's Letter Explaining Saint Benedict Center’s Doctrinal Stance on the diocese website

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/02/bishop-peter-libasci-and-cdf-will-not.html

FEBRUARY 3, 2019

Archbishops Giacomo Morandi and Joseph Augustine di Noia, Secretary and Adjunct Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrince of the Faith, Vatican are reading the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 with the red passages being an exception to the blue passages. This is irrational, non traditional and heretical

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/02/archbishops-giacomo-morandi-and-joseph.html

JANUARY 26, 2019

The Catechism of the Catholic Church affirms the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus : CDF makes a mistake

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-catechism-of-catholic-church.html

JANUARY 25, 2019

The Social Reign of Christ the King can be proclaimed based on Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church which affirm the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS)

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-social-reign-of-christ-king-can-be.html

JANUARY 23, 2019

The rational approach, the only approach, is that CCC 846 affirms the strict interpretation of the dogma EENS and there are no practical exceptions mentioned in CCC 846 or the rest of the Catechism

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-rational-approach-only-approach-is.html

JANUARY 22, 2019

 

Catechism of the Catholic Church (n.846) affirms the strict and traditional interpretation of EENS defined by three Church Councils in the Extraordinary Magisterium 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/catechism-of-catholic-church-n846.html

  

JANUARY 19, 2019

Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church affirm the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus : CDF, Diocese of Manchester irrational and heretical 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/vatican-council-ii-and-catechism-of.html

 

JANUARY 18, 2019

Outside the Church there is no salvation in the Catechism( N.846) affirms the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus   https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/outside-church-there-is-no-salvation-in.html

 JANUARY 16, 2019

Catechism of the Catholic Church and Dominus Iesus 'constitutive of Catholic teaching ' do not contradict the strict interpretation of EENS : the CDF made an objective error

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/catechism-of-catholic-church-and.html
 

Why should the St. Benedict Center be obedient to public heresy,schism and sacrilege from the CDF and the Diocese of Manchester ? 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/why-should-st-benedict-center-be.html

JANUARY 13, 2019

Diocesan of Manchester needs to clarify its doctrinal position for Catholics

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/diocesan-of-manchester-needs-to-clarify.html

The Diocese of Manchester's Decree-Precepts-St.Benedict Center, issued by the Episcopal Vicar for Canonical Affairs is based on false reasoning 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-diocese-of-manchesters-decree.html

JANUARY 11, 2019

The CDF wants Catholic religious communities and lay movements to accept heresy and sacrilege otherwise canonical prohibitions will be placed upon them

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-cdf-wants-catholic-religious.html

JANUARY 10, 2019

Brother Andre Marie MICM affirms extra ecclesiam nulla salus based on Vatican Council II : query from the CDF

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/broandre-marie-affirms-extra-ecclesiam.html

JANUARY 8, 2019

St.Robert Bellarmine was a Feeneyite and so was St. Thomas Aquinas.So is Vatican Council II

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/strobert-bellarmine-was-feeneyite-and.html

JANUARY 5, 2019

Vatican Council II has a heretical theology but in a peculiar way it can be interpreted non heretically

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/vatican-council-ii-has-heretical.html
 DECEMBER 31, 2018
Cushingite passages do not contradict Feeneyite passages. The liberals did not know ( Graphics)  https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/12/cushingite-passages-do-not-contradict.html

 DECEMBER 31, 2018

  

The Traditional Latin Mass must not be separated from the exclusive-salvation theology of Vatican Council II (Graphics)

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/12/the-traditional-latin-mass-must-not-be.html

DECEMBER 17, 2018

The Church is Necessary

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/12/the-church-is-necessary.html

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/02/catechism-of-catholic-church-supports.html