Thursday, September 8, 2011

VATICAN COUNCIL II INDICATES ISLAM IS NOT A PATH TO SALVATION


I heard part of the audio  on the website The Bellarmine Report,  in which Robert Sungenis and Bro.Peter Dimond ‘debate’ Nostra Aetate 3,Vatican Council II.

They both agree that Islam is not the way to offer ‘true worship’ to God.

Sungenis was saying that Nostra Aetate does not say that Islam is a way to salvation however it respects all that is ‘good and holy’ in the religion of Mohammad.

I did not listen to the whole audio so I do not know what other arguments Robert Sungenis used. This post is not a critique of the debate.

Since Peter Dimond assumes that Nostra Aetate shows that Catholics consider Islam a ‘true religion’ then it would mean Nostra Aetate contradicts Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14. Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) indicates all people, including Muslims, need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.This is the ordinary way of salvation.

 Vatican Council II is saying Catholic Faith and the baptism of water is the ordinary way of salvation. We love Muslims as Jesus asks of us, and we esteem the good things in their religion but we know that they are all oriented to Hell. Respect, kindness, tolerance, long suffering are aspects of love. We do not know if there is a single case saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience or with the baptism of desire in the present times however Iwe can  hope there are some or many.

The Catholic Church teaches like Peter Dimond, that outside the Church there is no salvation extra ecclesiam nulla salus. (AG 7, LG 14). De facto everyone on earth needs to be a visible, formal member of the Church to go to Heaven.

The Church also accepts in principle (de jure) that there could be non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) a good conscience, the baptism of desire etc.This is not contrary to the Principle of Non Contradiction since we do not know explicit cases of non Catholic saved in invincible ignorance etc.

Peter and Michael Dimond reject     
 the baptism of desire of the Council of Trent and irrationally assumes that it is explicit. So for him the Council of Trent on the baptism of desire would contradict Cantate Domino on extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

To reject the baptism of desire is heresy.

Throughout Church history the baptism of desire was always considered implicit and known only to God. We are not able to meet a non Catholic at home or abroad saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance. It is not visible as is the baptism of water.

So it is false for the Dimond brothers to imply that the baptism of desire and those saved in invincible ignorance is explicit and would contradict the dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence .Vatican Council II is in accord with Cantate Domino.

The Dimond brothers, Most Holy Family Monastery, USA are in schism from a church that affirms Cantate Domino and the baptism of desire. There could be many in the Church who are in rebellion or who have private views, including the pope, however Vatican Council II indicates Islam is not a path to salvation.

The Dimond brothers accept Vatican Council as does the Jewish Left (ADL,SPLC etc). They interpret Vatican Council II as do the political left, Catholic liberals and dissenters.

There is no Church document which says the dogma Cantate Domino has been retracted. The Magisterial texts accept the baptism of desire and extra ecclesiam nulla salus. This is an important point in any Catholic debate on this subject.
-Lionel Andrades