Friday, November 16, 2012

COUNCIL OF TRENT DOES NOT REFER TO EXPLICIT IMPLICIT DESIRE : SEDEVACANTIST ERROR

A sedevacantist cites the baptism of desire as an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. He quotes the Council of Trent extensively but in none of those quotations is it mentioned that implicit desire is explicit for us.
He assumes that the baptism of desire cases are known to us in the present times, just like the baptism of water, and so these cases are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus as understood by Fr.Leonard Feeney.-Lionel Andrades

Baptism of Desire and the Council of Trent
http://www.romancatholicism.org/trent-baptism.htm

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The Return to Rome, Five Years Later




http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/1677/the_return_to_rome_five_years_later.aspx

Catholic traditionalists do not challenge the errors on Wikipedia since they assume Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus


Many Traditionalists would contend that Church statements since the Second Vatican Council are a radical departure from what was originally taught by the Catholic Church.-Wikipedia, extra ecclsiam nulla salus
Why would Traditionalists assume this?
Since like Wikipedia they believe, without really thinking it through,that we can see the dead who are saved in inculpable ignorance and so being saved in inculpable ignorance is an explicit, known exception to the dogma exra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Vatican Council II then contradicts Tradition and the dogma.

So no one corrects the error on Wikipedia.-Lionel Andrades

Many of the recent Vatican II Council's statements imply that those who do not know the gospel and adhere to other religions can be saved without holding the Catholic faith or religion. The Athanasian Creed, one of the oldest creeds of the Church confirmed by both the Council of Florence and Pope Gregory XVI,taught unequivocally that only those who held the Catholic Faith whole and inviolate could be saved from eternal damnation. The Athanasian Creed states "whosoever will be saved, above all it is necessary to hold the Catholic faith. Unless each one holds this faith whole and inviolate, without a doubt he will perish in eternity." Athanasian Creed The statements of the Church since Vatican II, traditionalists argue, countermand the original Athanasian Creed by stating that Protestants, pagans, Muslims, Jews and others who do not hold the Catholic faith whole and inviolate can still participate in salvation, and have the grace of faith. Most Holy Family Monastery in Fillmore, New York, and the Saint Benedict Center in Richmond, New Hampshire argue strenuously for this position-Wikipedia, extra ecclesiam nulla salus.(emphasis added)

REMNANT NEWSPAPER LIKE FR. FRANCOIS LAISNEY ALSO SEES 'THE GHOSTS'


The Remnant newspaper has a report by Fr.Francois Laisney .None of their correspondents, can see the Council as traditional, since they all assume that the deceased are visible to us and they use this observation in their interpretation of Vatican Council II.


There is so much SSPX material on the Internet which wrongly assumes that we know people in the present times who are exceptions to the Syllabus of Errors and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.So in all their 'analysis' they assume that Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma on salvation and the Syllabus.


Then they will pick up one passage here and there to prove that the Council is modernist. Of course the Council is modernist when you interpret it with the premise of being able to see the dead, the ghosts.

This is the liberal interpretation of Vatican Council II and the only one the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) seems to know at present. This is the only one they have known all these years.

They can only criticize the Council but cannot provide an alternative interpretation because they do not know of one and the Vatican Curia is of no help to them at this time.

They could excommunicate the SSPX for not accepting the false interpretation of the Council, a Council which is a break from the past and which allegedly says we can see ghosts saved with 'the seeds of the Word' and in 'imperfect communion ' with the Church.

These same ghosts can be seen by the SSPX priests Fathers Peter Scott, Francois Laisney and Joseph Pfieffer(SSPX-SO).All in the name of Tradition!The deceased are visible!

Fr.Francois Laisney and traditionalists mention that the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 suggested that the baptism of desire was relevant to the literal interpretation of the dogma. The Letter suggested first, before all of them, that they could all see ghosts.

Anyway, if we cannot see anyone saved with the baptism of desire and the Magisterium cannot name any person in particular in the present times, and yet if the Letter still says that the baptism of desire is an exception to the dogma, then it was an oversight in the Letter.It was a misunderstanding.

When the SSPX recognizes this oversight then they may be able to see that Vatican Council II is in agreement with the Syllabus of Errors and extra ecclesiam nulla salus and it is Fathers Laisney,Scott and Pfieffer who are in error and not Vatican Council II.-Lionel Andrades



http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/2012-1015-laisney-di-noia.htm


Fr.Francois Laisney makes the same error as Archbishop Di Noia in assuming that there are explicit known cases on earth who can be saved outside the Catholic Church.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/11/frfrancois-laisney-makes-same-error-as.html#links

Archbishop DiNoia has “tried to argue that all the SSPX has to do is to say there’s nothing in the Council that is contrary to Tradition- Fr.Francois Laisney,SSPX
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/11/archbishop-dinoia-has-tried-to-argue.html#links

Fr.Francois Laisney makes the same error as Archbishop Di Noia in assuming that there are explicit known cases on earth who can be saved outside the Catholic Church.

So if someone who looks to be a Lutheran outside is saved, it is because he is a Catholic inside; it is in spite of the Lutheran church, not by it that he is saved,writes Fr.Francois Laisney.
How can any Lutheran one knows, be saved ? In principle a Lutheran can be saved and it would be known to God only. In reality every Lutheran needs to enter the Catholic Church for salvation. This is the ordinary means of salvation (AG 7). This is the teaching of Vatican Council II.

There is no particular Lutheran whom we can say will be saved.Firstly we cannot judge secondly Vatican Council II says all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation. The Lutheran does not have Catholic Faith.
The dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus says all need to convert and there are no (known) exceptions.

This was the error in the book written by Fr.Francois Laisney on this subject.

It is because of this error that he interprets Vatican Council II as a break from the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus of Errors.

Once it is known that the Council does not contradict the SSPX position on other religions it will be easier to understand how the Council also accepts the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) position on ecumenism and religious liberty.

Fr.Francois Laisney makes the same error as Archbishop Di Noia in assuming that there are explicit known cases on earth who can be saved outside the Catholic Church.
-Lionel Andrades

Rorate Caeili has pulled down the report FANTASY THEOLOGY : PILTDOWN MAN THEOLOGY AT THE CDF



Rorate Caeili has pulled down the report FANTASY THEOLOGY : PILTDOWN MAN THEOLOGY AT THE CDF. It appeared as a comment with their report The "Spirit of the Council" nightmare that never ends:Teilhard de Chardin is what passes for "New Evangelization" in top Roman university.

Here it is :


The Converts to Catholicism You Didn't Know About

Young, Evangelical and Catholic

The Converts to Catholicism You Didn't Know About
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
from Spirit Daily