Monday, June 1, 2015

Robert Spencer needs to review his understanding of Vatican Council II and Islam and write a new book on apologetics for Catholics

 Neil Addison in a comment on the blog LMS Chairman 1 writes 'I have a book called "Inside Islam, A Guide for Catholics" published by Ascension Press and written by Daniel Ali and Robert Spencer. 
Not perfect but one of the few books to approach the subject from a Catholic rather than an Evangelical Protestant perspective. It is available on Amazon and other outlets'.
Joseph Shaw in that post says 'we need a critique of Islam of our own' he means we cannot use the apologetics of the evangelicals.
I have not read the book by Daniel Ali and Robert Spencer.However the odds are that they interpret Vatican Council II like the Bishop of Mostar and the traditionalists.2 They use apparition theology. It is the progressivist interpretation of the Council approved by the Magisterium and the Left and it is based on an irrationality.
It is the irrationality which forms a new theology which is used to interpret Vatican Council II as a break with Tradition and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.So with an ecclesiology different from pre-1949 times the  understanding of Islam and the other religions will have also changed. The old apologetics will not have meaning any more.Progressivists would simply say 'Vatican Council II has changed all that' when they are really referring to a theology based on an irrational premise and inference.
 
If Robert Spencer does not use the irrational premise and inference which comes from the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 then there can be no exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II to the rigorist, Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Church.
With the irrationality it is inferred in the Letter of the Holy Office that there is salvation outside the Church; there is known salvation outside the Church. The Letter issued by Cardinal Marchetti Selvaggiani infers further that these known cases are defacto exceptions in the present times, to all needing to be formal members of the Church for salvation.
This is the Cushing-Marchetti interpretation of the dogma, the progressivist one.So it means all Muslims in the present times do not need to convert into the Church to avoid Hell and go to Heaven.
This is the interpretation understood by Robert Spencer otherwise I am sure he would have quoted Vatican Council II which is in accord with the rigorist intepretation of the dogma, as it was understood over the centuries.
Robert Spencer needs to review the dead man walking and visible theory, apparition theology, which is common among US bishops including the bishop of Worcester, Bishop Robert McManus who refused to have Spencer talk in his diocese.He needs to write another book on Catholic apologetics with reference to Islam. This would be a book in which Vatican Council II is affirmed and yet  ecclesiology would not be different.-Lionel Andrades


1.
http://www.lmschairman.org/2015/05/worries-about-evangelical-response-to.html#more


2.
Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani and Cardinal Richard Cushing changed all that.They were playing God just like Martin Luther or King Henry VIII.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/06/cardinal-francesco-marchetti.html

The faith at Mostar is not based on the Bible, Tradition and the pre-1949 Magisterium
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/06/the-faith-at-mostar-is-not-based-on.html

Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani and Cardinal Richard Cushing changed all that.They were playing God just like Martin Luther or King Henry VIII.

Anonymous:
Nor is your claim to be God!

Lionel:
Before 1949 the Church accepted the (A) baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance and also (B) the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.There was no conflict between A and B.
Since there was no connnection between A and B.

After 1949 there was a connection made between A and B.
There was a conflict with A and B. A was a break with B and pre -1949 Tradition.

__________________

For the Bishop of Mostar, Bishop Ratko Peric and traditionalists there is a conflict between A and B.

A is connected to B.The link was made in the 1949 Letter of the Holy Office issued by Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani.
He was playing God.
For centuries the Holy Spirit guided the Catholic Church whose magisterium taught that there was no link between A and B, they were not in conflict and a Catholic could accept them both.
Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani and Cardinal Richard Cushing changed all that.They were playing God just like Martin Luther or King Henry VIII.

Since then even the traditionalists like Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Michael Davis, the sedevacantists CMRI, MHFM, and bloggers Louie Verrecchio, Michael Voris, Boniface at Unam Sanctam Catholicum,Patrick and Michael Archbold and traditionalists Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary ( St.Benedict Centres) and numerous priest -bloggers make the same mistake.
So no one can correct the Bishop of Mostar since they are part of the problem, they link A with B even though historically and logically there was and is no connection between the two
.
-Lionel Andrades

The faith at Mostar is not based on the Bible, Tradition and the pre-1949 Magisterium

   
- And he makes us see that the unity of the Spirit and the bond of peace is more important than any personal talent, more than untamable charisms, more than locutions in unknown tongues, more than falling on the ground (1), more than messages twice a month and more than tenfold secrets. Our faith is based on the foundation of the Bible and Tradition, interpreted by the living Magisterium of the Church, and not on private visions(2) that are all the more inauthentic, the more they claim to appear three times a day.-Bishop Ratko Perić in Medjugorje
_______________________
Our faith is based on the foundation of the Bible and Tradition, interpreted by the living Magisterium of the Church, and not on private visions
I was once telling my aunt Philomina that she should visit Medùgorje but she thought that Our Lady was present every where, even in the city where she lived. So why travel to Medugorje. I was trying to tell her that Our Lady was present at Medugorje in a special way, irrespective of the visionaries.
A superior of a monastery for nuns whom I knew well  also once asked me why should we believe in new apparitions, we have Revelation,that's enough.It is as if Our Lady at Medugorje has come with a new revelation.
I am reminded of all this after the Bishop of Mostar, Bishop Peric said recently at a Confirmation for children at Medugorje that 'Our faith is based on the foundation of the Bible and Tradition, interpreted by the living Magisterium of the Church, and not on private visions'
Whoooooooops!
Really?
There are over 300,000 page views on this blog and over 3000 posts and most of them are related to  the dogma extra eccelesiam nulla salus and many are on Medugorje. A few of them had been directed to the bishops of Mostar overlooking Medugorje. I went to Mostar and directly and personally asked  the bishop for comments on aspects of 'the Bible, Tradition and Magisterium' - and he has never responded.Never!
Since his faith,like those of the Catholic Bishops Conferences in Croatia and Bosnia is based on a new Revelation.
Even Our Lady at Medugorje seems to acknowledge this New Revelation and stays 'in step with the Church'( and the traditionalists).
Our faith is based on the foundation of the Bible and Tradition, interpreted by the living Magisterium of the Church....wow!
 
This is like Bishop Frank Dewane of Venice, Fla,USA saying on his website that ' by divine institution,(the bishop) carries on the work of the apostles. By reason of episcopal consecration, he shares in the triple apostolic function of teacher of doctrine, priest of sacred worship and minister of church government. Bishop Dewane is responsible for the pastoral care of the Diocese of Venice.'
 
What I wrote in  a previous blog post on Bishop Frank Dewane would also apply to the bishop at Medugorje.
'Bishop Dewane, by divine institution, carries on the work of the apostles...'
Lionel:
The apostles, Church Fathers and Medieval Church taught the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This is the teaching also of Vatican Council II without  irrational theology.So the bishop is teaching a new doctrine.The same is being taught by  Bishop Ratko Peric of Medugorje.
Half his diocese has been over run by Muslim militants. The Catholics were pushed out of their homes. I met many.
The Bishops house was partially destroyed.The previous bishop of Mostar had to escape. Neither was he nor is the  present bishop willing to affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
 
 
By reason of episcopal consecration, he shares in the triple apostolic function of teacher of doctrine, priest of sacred worship and minister of church government.
Lionel:
He is not a teacher of Church doctrine but of a new doctrine approved by the Left and the Vatican.It is an irrational doctrine and was not part of the Deposit of the Faith before 1949.The same new revelation is approved by the bishops of Croatia and Bosnia.
 
 
 
Bishop Dewane is responsible for the pastoral care of the Diocese of Venice.
Lionel:
This pastor has rejected the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
He has changed the Nicene Creed.
He reinterprets Vatican Council II with an irrationality which comes from Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani's  Letter of the Holy Office 1949.
He gives the mandatum, like other bishops, to those who teach a doctrine approved by the enemies of the Church.This is done with the assistance of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith,Vatican.
This is also the New Revelation in the Catholic Church in Mostar and other  dioceses. This is not our faith ' based on the foundation of the Bible and Tradition. It is a rejection of the pre-1949 magisterium. It is a new contemporary ' Magisterium of the Church'.They use a dead man walking and visible theory to interpret Vatican Council II.Their theology is based on seeing apparitions. In a way it is just like Medugorje- but is false.They have used theology to set aside the pre-1949 Magisterium of the Church which was a continuation of Tradition and the Bible.They choose cardinal Marchetti and Cushing's irrationality and rebel against Fr.Leonard Feeney.
 
 
 
 
 
The truth still exists where it exists. The faith has not been lost completely. There ,we still have a living magisterium.
-Lionel Andrades
 
 
 
 

Bishop Frank Dewane of Venice, Fla,USA gives the mandatum to teach apparition theology and a new false doctrine approved by the CDF

 http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/05/bishop-frank-dewane-of-venice-flausa.html

http://te-deum.blogspot.it/2015/05/full-official-translation-of-bishop.html