Sunday, May 26, 2013

Brian Kelly does not mention that Vatican Council II is in perfect agreement with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

Brian Kelly in another report on the St.Benedict Center N.H website does not mention that Vatican Council II is in perfect agreement with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.For him too Lumen Gentium 16 is possibly a known exception to the dogma on salvation.

He has not cited Vatican Council II to support his views, when he criticizes Catholic Online for a bad catechesis on Pope Francis' comment on atheists 'doing good' and possibly being saved.

Brian Kelly cites Scripture and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus to support his view while Catholic Online depends on the liberal Huffington Post and a reference to Vatican Council II without any text.

The ace was in Kelly's hand but he didn't play it.

Like other traditionalists he could wrongly assume that Lumen Gentium 16 (invincible ignorance /good conscience), Lumen Gentium 8 (elements of sanctification), Ad Gentes 11 (seeds of the Word), Unitatis Redintigratio 3 (imperfect communion with the Church),Nostra Aetate 2 ('good and holy' non Catholics saved) are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

For him it would seem these are all visible-to-us cases in the present times. He can allegedly see these dead persons in 2013. Likewise the Huffington Post editors would allege that these cases are all in Heaven without the baptism of water-and more important- they are not invisible to us,but actually visible, for them to be exceptions to Brian Kelly's interpretation of the dogma.

As if the fault is with Vatican Council II Brian Kelly and the other traditionalists will not cite text from the Council, to defend the dogma.Since if the dead are visible to us , as it is implied , then there are known exceptions in Heaven who are there without Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.

Instead-Brian Kelly after citing Scripture and the dogma could quote Ad Gentes 7 which says all need 'faith and baptism' for salvation.Ad Gentes 7  is placed under the title Outside the Church there is no salvation in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (846).

Having established that Ad Gentes 7 and the Cetechism are in agreement with the dogma, he could then mention how being saved implicitly for us in invincible ignorance(LG 16) , being saved invisiblly for us with a good conscience (LG 16) and known only to God 'elements of sanctification'(LG 8) harmonize with the dogma. Since they are not visible to us, they cannot be classified as exceptions; visible or invisible exceptions.

So Ad Gentes 7 supports the dogma which says all need to convert into the Church for salvation (atheists are included) and  there are no known exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II.

The Huffington Post says:

The Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World (Gaudium et Spes) contains an important explanation of the phenomena referred to as 'Atheism' (See, GS #17-22). It is a very large term and we have to first examine what is meant when it is embraced by an individual to best understand the effect of the claim.

So they do not claim that Gaudium et Specs says that atheists are saved in general without entering the Catholic Church.

They then state:

The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains that "Since it rejects or denies the existence of God, atheism is a sin against the virtue of religion but the imputability of the offense can be significantly diminished in virtue of the intentions and the circumstances" (CCC#2125).

'but the imputability of the offense can be significantly diminished in virtue of the intentions and the circumstances'. This could only be known by God.To die as an atheist is still a mortal sin .So why mention it?

Brian Kelly needs to put an end to all this irrationality in the media when he is commenting upon it-and to please quote Vatican Council II.
-Lionel Andrades

http://catholicism.org/dreadful-misleading-headline-of-catholic-online-pins-heresy-on-pope.html http://www.catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=51077