Monday, October 7, 2019

The Leftist controlled media in Italy describe the traditionalists and conservative Catholics as extremists. But when Vatican Council II supports exclusive salvation, then who will be the extremists and rebels? The norm will be the support of Tradition by Vatican Council II interpreted rationally. So the liberals will be the rebels and extremists. The norm which they have been used to has been changed. The Council supports Tradition and is not a rupture with the past ecclesiology.

Now the Leftist controlled media in Italy describe the traditionalists  and conservative Catholics as extremists. But when Vatican Council II supports exclusive salvation, then who will be the extremists and rebels? The norm will be the support of Tradition by Vatican Council II interpreted rationally. So the liberals will be the rebels and extremists.
The norm which they have been used to has been changed. The Council supports Tradition and is not a rupture with the past ecclesiology.
Image result for Photo  giornale logo la repubblicaImage result for Photo  Avvenire logo
So the liberal professors can no more cite Vatican Council II to support a new theology, new ecumenism, new ecclesiology and new evangelisation. Since the Council does not mention any known cases of non Catholics saved outside the Church.
'Possibilities', we know are not visible people saved outside the Church.
Image result for Photo  John Allen Jr CruxImage result for Photo  Michael Sean Winters
So it means John Allen Jr and Michael Sean Winters are the extremists and rebels today.
LG 8, LG 14 and LG 16 being hypothetical cases do not contradict the old ecclesiology. There is no known salvation outside the Church. So there is no theological and philosophical foundation for the New Theology.
There is nothing in Lumen Gentium to contradict the past exclusivist ecclesiology of the Church. So there is no philosophical and theological foundation in Vatican Council II for the New Ecclesiology.
Unitatis Redintigratio does not name any particular person saved outside the Church as a Protestant or other Christian in his religion.It does not state that we can know of a Christian saved outside the Church without Catholic faith. So the Decree on Ecumenism(UR) does not anywhere contradict the past ecumenism of return.
Similarly Ad Gentes 7 says all need faith and baptism for salvation and we know there can be no practical exceptions known to us humans in 2019. So Vatican Council II is not a rupture with Mission and Salvation as it was known to the Magisterium and missionaries in the 16th century.
I love Vatican Council II and I affirm Tradition( Athanasius Creed, Syllabus of Errors, EENS etc).
-Lionel Andrades

Professors at the John Lateran University Rome unethical : they support deception and a lie officially

Entrance of Pontificial Lateran University (CNS Photo/Paul Haring)
Prof.Giovanni Tangorra gets a salary for teaching Ecclesiology with a falsehood, a lie, at the St.John Lateran University, Rome.He interprets Vatican Council II with a false premise and inference to create a non traditional conclusion which is a rupture with the past ecclesiology of the Catholic Church.The same lie and deception is permitted at the Roman College, the seminary at the univesity Laterenese.Professors and priests pick up a salary for not telling the truth about Vatican Council II and ecclesiology.
Similarly Professoressa Angelo Aleso Bello and Prof. Mobeen Shahid at the  St. John Lateran University, Rome, professors of philosophy, interpret Vatican Council II with the same irrational philosophical reasoning.
This has also been 'the development of doctrine' for Archbishop Rino Fischella, former Rector of the John Latern Univesity and now President of the Pontifical Council for the Promotion of the New Evangelisation.He officially interpret Vatican Council II with a deceptive premise and inference. Students at the university are not aware of this deception and the professors do not talk about it.
Mobeen Shahid and other profesors taught theology classes for laity in Rome and the falsehood was not made known.When I once met him and called his attention to it, he said "No comment".
Professors generally pretend that there is a development of the faith and the laity are duped  with the complex Vaticanese language of the professors.The lay people in Rome largely sit impressed or confused but do not understand most of what is said.I have personally been present at a series of one of these talks in a parish on the outskirts of Rome, along the Metro C route.
The reporters in the mainstream media here also do not detect the philosophical and theological error.So they do not confront the professors.
The pontifical universities in Rome are equal opportunity institutions, which support diversity and is open to all -  except for those who believe the Church teaches exclusive salvation in Vatican Council II.-Lionel Andrades




OCTOBER 5, 2019

Temi di ecclesiologia

Prof.Giovanni Tangorra teaches an Ecclesiology course at St.John Lateran University, Rome : He interprets Vatican Council II with Cushingism instead of Feeneyism to create a hermeneutic of rupture with Tradition - 2





Cardinal Raymond Burke at the Napa Institute : Vatican Council II supports his talk

 
When Cardinal Raymond Burke spoke at the Napa Institute there was a protest by a group that takes its name after Cardinal Newman.When they were blocked from entering they issued a statement citing Vatican Council II.
Cardinal Burke's Secretary did not clarify that Vatican supports exclusive salvation and is not only Christological but also Ecclesiocentric.So what the cardinal said at the Institute was supported by Vatican Council II.
The Council when interpreted rationally has a hermeneutic of continuity with the past ecclesiology and an ecumenism of return.Mission doctrine is traditional since Ad Gentes 7 says all need faith and baptism for salvation.We  do not know any 'who knows' or 'does not know' and is saved outside the Church(LG 14).
Also when it is said that all who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church(CC 846), this does not exclude all needing to enter the Catholic Church with faith and baptism to avoid Hell ( for salvation).
Even if the Church is seen as communion, people of God, Mystical Body of Christ, Sacrament etc, this does not exclude all needing faith and baptism in th Catholic Church, for salvation( from Hell).
So there still needs to be traditional mission and outreach to non Christians, based upon Vatican Council II interpreted rationally.
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When Cardinal Newman spoke of the development of doctrine before it was made a dogma.A dogma then cannot develop.The Cardinal Newman organisation cannot interpret Vatican Council II with a false premise and inference and then call the conclusion a development of doctrine.
This was an error in reasoning( philosophy) made by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in two papers of the International Theological Commission, Vatican.This was also the mistake of the periti Rahner, Congar, Cushing and others at Vatican Council II-
-Lionel Andrades




October 5, 2019





The Council is Feeneyite and traditional.There is exclusive salvation in only the Catholic Church : National Catholic Reporter misrepresents Vatican Council II 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/10/the-council-is-feeneyite-and.html




I frutti del processo che la Madonna ha iniziato a Medjugorje sono tanta...

Before reading Vatican Council II it must be clear for Dr. Taylor Marshall and Timothy Gordon that there are no physically visible cases of non Catholics, in the present times (1965-2019) as referenced in LG 8,LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc.

Before reading Vatican Council II it must be clear for  Dr. Taylor Marshall and Timothy Gordon that there are no physically visible cases of non Catholics, in the present times (1965-2019) as referenced in LG 8,LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22  etc. We cannot see or meet anyone saved with 'elements of sanctification and truth'(LG 8) or with 'good will'(GS 22) or in invincible ignorance and a good conscience(LG 16). If someone is saved outside the Church without faith and baptism(AG 7, LG 14), it would only be known to God.I keep repeating this point. It is central to what I want to say.
The case of the catechumen who desires the baptism of water but dies before he receives it and is saved is a hypothetical case.It is a personally unknown case The person would be invisible for us.
Practically, if this person exists he would only be known to God.There are no literal cases of a non Catholic saved  outside the visible boundaries  of the Church where the Catholic Church subsists.LG 8 refers to a hypothetical case too, for us humans.
There  are no practical exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation. There are no practical exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS- Council of Florence 1441).Ad Gentes supports EENS and there are no literal exceptions to the traditional teaching, over the centuries,on the Church having exclusive salvation. Vatican Council II is really traditional on exclusive salvation.
The old ecclesiology is not contradicted with LG 8,LG 14 or LG 16. An ecumenism of return is not contradicted by UR 2( Decree on Ecumenism, Vatican Council II), which also refers to a hypothetical case, known only to God.
Someone invisible, saved as a Protestant, cannot be visible exception to the past exclusivist ecclesiology and the teaching on outside the Church there is no salvation.So we are reading Vatican Council II differently.
There is no contradiction when the Catechism of the Catholic Church( 1257) states all need the baptism of water for salvation( literally) and we know there are no known cases, where God, was not being restricted to the Sacraments(CCC 1257).The latter is speculative and hypothetical.
A possibility known only to God is not a real person in the present times.
So now when Taylor Marshall and Timothy Gordon interpret Vatican Council II, like every one else,they confuse what is invisible as being being invisible, subjective as being objective and hypothetical as being real.This was the error of the popes from Paul VI to Francis.It is the mistake of the Prefects of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF),from Cardinal Ottaviani( and may be earlier) to Cardinal Ladaria, today.
It is this invisible-visible distinction which creates the hermeneutic of rupture or continuity with Tradition( EENS, Syllabus of Errors, ecumenism of return, traditional Mission etc).
This was the mistake made by the Americanists at the time of the Baltimore Catechism.It was repeated in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston and then repeated in Vatican Council II.
Vatican Council II should not have mentioned BOD and I.I with reference to all needing faith and baptism(AG 7, LG 14). BOD and I.I are invisible cases and so are not relevant to EENS.Similarly citing hypothetical cases, is a kind of theme in the Council(UR 3,GS 22, NA 2 etc).
The error is repeated in Redemptoris Missio, Dominus Iesus etc which are Cushingite and not Feeneyite.Even the Catechism of the Catholic Church was put together with this error.It is the foundation for the New Theology and New Ecclesiology.So now that we have identified the error we can re-read Vatican Council II  rationally.We have found the 'missing link'which makes the Council a break with Tradition.The hypothetical red passages in the Council text do not contradict the blue orthodox passages. 1
Vatican Council II is no more Christological only. It is also ecclesiocentric. -Lionel Andrades




1

July 4, 2019

The Bologna School interprets Vatican Council II with the red being an exception to the blue and Fr. John Zuhlsdorf says he supports this interpretation.He has not written about how Vatican Council II can be interpreted with the red not being an exception to the blue.

The Bologna School interprets Vatican Council II with the red being an exception to the blue and Fr. John Zuhlsdorf says he supports this interpretation.He has not written about how Vatican Council II can be interpreted with the red not being an exception to the blue.
Since 1965 Vatican Council II is wrongly being interpreted with the red being an exception to the blue and non one has corrected the error.
The sedevacantists Michael and Peter Dimond at the Most Holy Family Monastery, USA still interpret Vatican Council II with the red being an exception to the blue.This is inspite of so many reports on line on this subject and  e-mails sent to them.
Similarly sedevacatists Bishop Donald Sanborn at his seminary in Florida will not state that Vatican Council II and other magisterial documents can be interpreted with the red not being an exception to the blue.
In the Diocese of Manchester, USA the sedevacantist community, Congregatio Mariae Reginau Immaculatae(CMRI),under Bishop Mark Pivarunas, also interpret Vatican Council II with the red being an exception to the blue.
Similarly Bishop Williamson and the SSPX groups do not discuss this issue and correct the error in public.
The Diocese of Manchester needs to help the CMRI community and not condemn as not being Catholic.They have to be shown that with the red not being an exception to the blue, the Council does not contradict the past ecclesiology and the Syllabus of Errors.So then there is no reason for the CMRI to go into sedevacantism based upon Vatican Council II.


July 10, 2019

If the SSPX bishops and priests are excommunicated they would simply have to respond like any normal Catholic and say they refuse to interpret Vatican Council II with the red passages being exceptions to the blue passages. The red passages are not exceptions to the blue passages for them and the CDF has made an objective mistake.


Image result for Photo of SSPX leaders

If the SSPX bishops and priests are excommunicated they would simply have to respond like any normal Catholic and say they refuse to interpret Vatican Council II with the red passages being exceptions to the blue passages.
The red passages are not exceptions to the blue passages for them and the CDF has made an objective mistake.
-Lionel Andrades
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MAGISTERIAL DOCUMENTS CAN BE INTERPRETED WITH 1)THE RED PASSAGESBEING AN EXCEPTION TO THE BLUE PASSAGES OR WITH 2)THE RED PASSAGESNOT BEING AN EXCEPTION TO THE BLUE PASSAGES.THE LATTER(2) IS RATIONAL.
Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II
 Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it." Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him...- Ad Gentes 7. Vatican Council II
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Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II
14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.

They are fully incorporated in the society of the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ accept her entire system and all the means of salvation given to her, and are united with her as part of her visible bodily structure and through her with Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. The bonds which bind men to the Church in a visible way are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion. He is not saved, however, who, though part of the body of the Church, does not persevere in charity. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but, as it were, only in a "bodily" manner and not "in his heart."(12*) All the Church's children should remember that their exalted status is to be attributed not to their own merits but to the special grace of Christ. If they fail moreover to respond to that grace in thought, word and deed, not only shall they not be saved but they will be the more severely judged.(13*)

Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II
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 Unitatis Redintigratio (Decree on Ecumenism), Vatican Council II
It follows that the separated Churches(23) and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.
Nevertheless, our separated brethren, whether considered as individuals or as Communities and Churches, are not blessed with that unity which Jesus Christ wished to bestow on all those who through Him were born again into one body, and with Him quickened to newness of life - that unity which the Holy Scriptures and the ancient Tradition of the Church proclaim. For it is only through Christ's Catholic Church, which is "the all-embracing means of salvation," that they can benefit fully from the means of salvation. We believe that Our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, in order to establish the one Body of Christ on earth to which all should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the people of God. This people of God, though still in its members liable to sin, is ever growing in Christ during its pilgrimage on earth, and is guided by God's gentle wisdom, according to His hidden designs, until it shall happily arrive at the fullness of eternal glory in the heavenly Jerusalem.-Unitatis Redintigratio (Decree on Ecumenism), Vatican Council II
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Dignitatis Humane 1, Vatican Council II
First, the council professes its belief that God Himself has made known to mankind the way in which men are to serve Him, and thus be saved in Christ and come to blessedness. We believe that this one true religion subsists in the Catholic and Apostolic Church, to which the Lord Jesus committed the duty of spreading it abroad among all men. Thus He spoke to the Apostles: "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have enjoined upon you" (Matt. 28: 19-20). On their part, all men are bound to seek the truth, especially in what concerns God and His Church, and to embrace the truth they come to know, and to hold fast to it.
This Vatican Council likewise professes its belief that it is upon the human conscience that these obligations fall and exert their binding force. The truth cannot impose itself except by virtue of its own truth, as it makes its entrance into the mind at once quietly and with power.
Religious freedom, in turn, which men demand as necessary to fulfill their duty to worship God, has to do with immunity from coercion in civil society. Therefore it leaves untouched traditional Catholic doctrine on the moral duty of men and societies toward the true religion and toward the one Church of Christ.-Dignitatis Humane 1, Vatican Council II
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 Catechism of the Catholic Church

 "Outside the Church there is no salvation"  
846
 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:  
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: 
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."

-Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848 
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 DOMINUS IESUS 
IV. UNICITY AND UNITY OF THE CHURCH
16.  The Lord Jesus, the only Saviour, did not only establish a simple community of disciples, but constituted the Church as a salvific mystery: he himself is in the Church and the Church is in him (cf. Jn 15:1ff.; Gal 3:28; Eph 4:15-16; Acts9:5).  Therefore, the fullness of Christ's salvific mystery belongs also to the Church, inseparably united to her Lord. Indeed, Jesus Christ continues his presence and his work of salvation in the Church and by means of the Church (cf.Col 1:24-27),47 which is his body (cf. 1 Cor 12:12-13, 27; Col 1:18).48 And thus, just as the head and members of a living body, though not identical, are inseparable, so too Christ and the Church can neither be confused nor separated, and constitute a single “whole Christ”.49 This same inseparability is also expressed in the New Testament by the analogy of the Church as the Bride of Christ (cf. 2 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:25-29; Rev 21:2,9).50
Therefore, in connection with the unicity and universality of the salvific mediation of Jesus Christ, the unicity of the Church founded by him must befirmly believed as a truth of Catholic faith. Just as there is one Christ, so there exists a single body of Christ, a single Bride of Christ: “a single Catholic and apostolic Church”.51 Furthermore, the promises of the Lord that he would not abandon his Church (cf. Mt 16:18; 28:20) and that he would guide her by his Spirit (cf. Jn 16:13) mean, according to Catholic faith, that the unicity and the unity of the Church — like everything that belongs to the Church's integrity — will never be lacking.52
The Catholic faithful are required to profess that there is an historical continuity — rooted in the apostolic succession53 — between the Church founded by Christ and the Catholic Church: “This is the single Church of Christ... which our Saviour, after his resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care (cf. Jn 21:17), commissioning him and the other Apostles to extend and rule her (cf. Mt28:18ff.), erected for all ages as ‘the pillar and mainstay of the truth' (1 Tim 3:15). This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in [subsistit in] the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him”.54  With the expression subsistit in, the Second Vatican Council sought to harmonize two doctrinal statements: on the one hand, that the Church of Christ, despite the divisions which exist among Christians, continues to exist fully only in the Catholic Church, and on the other hand, that “outside of her structure, many elements can be found of sanctification and truth”,55 that is, in those Churches and ecclesial communities which are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church.56 But with respect to these, it needs to be stated that “they derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”
-Dominus Iesus 16. 
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LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE 1949 DURING THE PONTIFICATE OF POPE PIUS XII

( This letter was  an inter office correspondence between cardinals. However the liberals placed it in the Denzinger and it has been referenced in Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It contains an objective error when it assumes invisible and unknown cases of the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and being saved in invincible ignorance are visible and known exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Upon this Letter is based the New Theology.)
 We are bound by divine and Catholic faith to believe all those things which are contained in the word of God, whether it be Scripture or Tradition, and are proposed by the Church to bebelieved as divinely revealed, not only through solemn judgment but also through the ordinary and universal teaching office (, n. 1792).

Now, among those things which the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there  is no salvation outside the Church.

However, this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church...
Now, among the commandments of Christ, that one holds not the least place by which we are commanded to be incorporated by baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to His Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth...
Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless  refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.

Not only did the Savior command that all nations should  enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory.

In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects, necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man's final end, not by intrinsic

necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing. This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both in reference to the sacrament of regeneration and in reference to the sacrament of penance (, nn. 797, 807).
  Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.

However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.

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 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/07/if-sspx-bishops-and-priests-are.html






October 6, 2019


Vatican 2: Rupture or Continuity- Dr Taylor Marshall 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/10/vatican-2-rupture-or-continuity-dr.html


October 6, 2019

 Featured Image


 Even if the Church was infiltrated before and during Vatican Council II, the Council and other magisterial documents can be interpreted without the false premise. So the conclusion is different. If Dr.Taylor Marshall interprets Vatican Council II with Feeneyism he would be saying there are only Catholics in Heaven 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/10/even-if-church-was-infiltrated-before.html