Saturday, January 5, 2013

Franciscan Conventual Friars and the SSPX priests

OFMConv

The Society of St.Pius X(SSPX) priests at Albano,Italy are saying that there is no implicit salvation that is visible to us.Yet the Franciscan Conventual Curia magazine states there is an 'ecclesiology of communion'.This  contradicts St.Maximilian Kolbe.

In their magazine Miles Immaculatae in Italian, published by the OFM Conv. Curia in Rome an article asks what of St.Maximilian Kolbe can be carried over into the 20th century.It refers to an ecclesiology of communion.

The OFM Guardian would not answer two questions.


1. Do we know anyone in 2012 saved with the baptism desire and invincible ignorance ? and (2). can these cases be exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus?

The SSPX priests have said that there is no implicit salvation that is visible for us.So they have answered the first question. If these cases are not visible to us then we cannot assume that they are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. The dogma as St.Maximillian Kolbe understood it and expressed it in his writings.

The OFM Conventuals will not answer the two questions like the priests from Albano,Italy.Since if there are no known exceptions to the dogma on salvation then what is the basis for an ecclesiology of communion instead of the traditional ecclesiology of St.Maximillian Kolbe ?
-Lionel Andrades

ALBANO AT ODDS WITH ECONE OVER IMPLICIT SALVATION IN VATICAN COUNCIL II


There is no unanimous view in the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) on Vatican Council II contradicting the traditional teachings on other religions.Opinions differ.

 
The SSPX at Albano,Italy is at odds with the Headquarters at Econe, Switzerland.
-Lionel Andrades

SSPX PRIESTS IN ALBANO,ITALY DISAGREE WITH U.S WEBSITE: THERE ARE NO KNOWN EXCEPTIONS TO EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS IN VATICAN COUNCIL II

Vatican Council II does not contradict the traditional teaching on other religions: message for Econe

Another SSPX priest in Rome says implicit salvation is not visible to us and is known only to God.

SSPX COMMUNICATION OVERLOOKS CARDINAL SCHONBORN'S IRRATIONAL THEOLOGY

The Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) priests at Albano,Italy, like Econe, need someone to handle public relations and communication.

No one has protested at Cardinal Christoph Schonborns statement that Vatican Council II has to be interpreted according to Tradition but there was also ' a developnent of doctrine'in
Vatican Council II.

This is irrational.It should have been mentioned in the media that Vatican Council II does not mention any case of explicit salvation outside the church. Seeds of the word, imperfect communion with the church, elements of sanctification etc are possibilities. We do not know of any such case over the last 100 years. They are not explicit for us.


Since there are no explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus what is the basis for 'a development of doctrine'? On which new revelation in Vatican Council II is it based ?


If we do not know of a non Catholic saved ouside the Church what is the basis for a theology of religions, an ecclesiology of communion or an ecumenism of non return ?

According to Cardinal Cristoph Schonborn the Council affirms the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors and the Social Reign of the Kingship of Christ the King and also at the same time affirms a theology of religions etc.

Vatican Council II  is really  traditional on other religions.There is no development of doctrine. The SSPX could have provided text from the Council to show the cardinal that his position is irrational and without any doctrinal support from Vatican Council II.-Lionel Andrades


SSPX NEVER BROUGHT SCHONBORN'S ERROR TO THE ATTENTION OF CDF PREFECTS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/sspx-never-brought-schonborns-error-to.html#links


THERE IS NO DOCTRINAL DEVELOPMENT IN VATICAN COUNCIL II AS CARDINAL CHRISTOPH SCHONBURG ALLEGES : SINCE THE COUNCIL DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE TRADITIONAL TEACHING ON OTHER RELIGIONS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/there-is-no-doctrinal-development-in.html#links

SSPX PRIESTS IN ALBANO,ITALY DISAGREE WITH U.S WEBSITE: THERE ARE NO KNOWN EXCEPTIONS TO EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS IN VATICAN COUNCIL II


The U.S website of the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) has posted articles by Fr.Francois Laisney which state that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. The website implies that these cases are visible to us on earth and so are exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma,especially by Fr.Leonard Feeney.


Inspite of so many reports over the last few years, and being informed, they maintain their irrational position.

Now two priests from the SSPX Priory in Albano,Italy say  all implicit salvation is known only to God.These cases are not visible to us.They indicate that all implicit salvation mentioned in Vatican Council II does not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, which was defined three times by three different Councils.
Fr. Francois Laisney

For Fr.Francois Laisney whose book with this irrational premise is being sold by the SSPX,  these cases, saved in invincible ignorance etc are real and known.So Lumen Gentium 16 would contradict the dogma on salvation and Ad Gentes 7. Hence Vatican Council II would be a break from the past.

It is this irrational position that Econe has been holding for many years and so the SSPX assumes that Vatican Council II contradicts the traditonal teaching on other religions and ecumenism.

On the contrary Ad Gentes 7 says all need faith and baptism for salvation.This message is also repeated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church N.846 under the sub heading Outside the Church There is No Salvation.Ad Gentes 7 is quoted in the Catechism of the Catholic Church n.846.The Catechism and Vatican Council II indicate that all Protestants and non Christians need Catholic Faith for salvation.

Vatican Council II has not changed the Catholic Church's teaching on other religions and ecumenism.








It is important for the reconciliation of the Society of St.Pius X  that Econe recognises this fact and clarifies this point.-Lionel Andrades

Vatican Council II does not contradict the traditional teaching on other religions: message for Econe

Vatican Council II does not contradict the traditional teaching on other religions.Econe needs to cite contrary text.
dsci0061

Two priests of the Society of St.Pius X(SSPX) in Rome, over the last two days, indicate that Vatican Council II agrees with the traditional teaching on other religions. Since Vatican Council II does not mention any case of salvation which is not implicit. There is no case of salvation mentioned in the text of the Council which indicates there are persons in 2013 who are dead and now saved and who are visible to us. So there is no known salvation outside the Church. Every one needs to be a visible member of the Church, with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water (AG 7) to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.
So the SSPX leadership at Econe would have to review its position on other religions. Or, provide if they can, any reference in Vatican Council II which contradicts the centuries old traditional teaching .

Even the Society's  USA website in the article 'Is the SSPX in heresy?' could not cite any text to show Vatican Council II has changed the Church's teachings on other religions and outside the church there is no salvation.


In the past Econe assumed the Council contradicted the traditional teaching on other religions, since it was assumed that implicit salvation was explicit.
-Lionel Andrades
First Saturday

 
http://www.sanpiox.it/public/index.php?

SSPX U.S website unable to defend SSPX on crucial point
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/sspx-us-website-unable-to-defend-sspx.html


THE SSPX CANNOT CITE ANY TEXT IN VATICAN COUNCIL II WHICH CONTRADICTS THE TRADITIONAL TEACHING ON OTHER RELIGIONS- THEY HAVE TO USE THE DEAD MAN WALKING THEORY
SSPX CAN PR0VIDE NO REFERENCE IN VATICAN COUNCIL II WHICH CONTRADICTS THE TRADITIONAL UNDERSTANDING OF OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/the-sspx-cannot-cite-any-text-in.html#links

Another SSPX priest in Rome says implicit salvation is not visible to us and is known only to God.

He could not cite any text in Vatican Council II which contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
A priest of the SSPX  yesterday said that implicit salvation is not visible to us . He agreed it was not an exception to the dogma on salvtion.
Pellegrinaggio Bevagna-Assisi

In principle it was possible for a non Catholic to be saved in another religion and this person would be saved by Jesus and the Church. However these cases he said were not known to us and so were not exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. They were irrelevant to the dogma.

I asked him if he could cite any case of implicit salvation in Vatican Council II which was explicit and so an exception to the traditional teaching on other religions? He did not know of any case.


The point I was trying to make was that Vatican Council II itself does not contradict the traditonal teaching on other religions. Since we cannot see persons saved in invincible ignorance a good conscience etc.

When Archbishop Lefebvre mentioned a Hindu could be saved in his religion, he was referring to something exceptional, and which we accept in principle as a possibility. De facto we cannot know any such case. So it was irrelevant to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which says all need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation. This is the same message as Ad Gentes 7 Vatican Council II .

Vatican Council II would only contradict the SSPX position on other religions if it was assumed that implicit salvation is explicit .Otherwise there is nothing in the Council which is non traditional, regarding other religions.


On Thursday I spoke to another SSPX priest who agreed that implicit salvation is not visible to us.-Lionel Andrades
First Saturday

http://www.sanpiox.it/public/index.php?