Monday, January 18, 2016

Archbishop Lefebvre did not see the same wrong reasoning, as the inference in the Letter(1949) used in Vatican Council II.The SSPX has still not noticed this !!!

I am surprised that after knowing me all this time that you would even speculate that I would speculate on what God will or will not do regarding any person's particular judgment. I have never inferred, implied or insinuated that I could or would know what God does.
Lionel:
For you there exists a baptism of desire. It excludes the baptism of water.Here is the problem.You say this is the Church teaching. This is the problem.
_______________________

 I trust in Him without any preconceived limitations or qualifications. I am relieved that you say "God can do what He wishes and has no limitations" I pray that you mean that because it is this phrase that you have contradicted in the past when you assume, presume and declare that the possibility of salvation by baptism of Desire  would be followed by baptism by water. 
Lionel:
Theoretically God can do what He wants. 
Practically, all need to formally enter the Church since this is what God wants.
_______________________


St. Bonaventure has stated it correctly and neither he, I or you could possibly know if God baptized the POSSIBLE person who MAY have died in a state of Baptism by Desire with water or NOT.
Lionel:
He only refers to a theological speculation.Fine.It is a hypothetical case without the irrational inference for me. I do not infer that this is an explicit case for him or me.
_________________________

 Your constant attack on Saints and Popes over the past centuries places you in peril for your own salvation. 
Lionel:
I am not attacking the teachings of St. Bonaventure for instance. All I am saying is that you should not cite him and baptism of desire with reference to EENS or an as exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS). This is what the liberal theologians have done and now the error has become magisterial and you accept it.You say this is the teaching of the Church.
__________________________



 Your constant badgering of those who we do "know' are in heaven as they are proclaimed Saints puts you in direct opposition with those who ARE KNOWN to be with God and your constant attacks on them on not understanding EENS. 
Lionel:
When the contemporary magisterium says the baptism of desire is an exception, then its a knee jerk reaction from me. I say there are no known cases of BOD in the present times and neither were there any in the past.Sp where are the exceptions?
____________________________

 You can not assume that someone believes that someone is in Heaven without baptism by water unless they use those very words. You assume false catechesis without proof. 
Lionel:
I believe people are in Heaven only  with the baptism of water because this is the de fide teaching of the Church before theologians discovered that BOD was an exception to the dogma EENS. They probably called up Vatican Council II only to implement this error from the Letter of the Holy Office 1949. The aim was to get rid of the dogma, assume hypothetical cases are defacto known.The innovation would produce non traditional results.
__________________________________


You say that this 'they' infer it. Archbishop Levebre stood against the world in proclaiming truth.  BOB, BOD and Invincible Ignorance are Church teaching on those whose condition of sanctity are found pleasing to God and if so are in Heaven in the manner that God pleases not subject to your speculation and are COMPLETELY UNKNOWN TO US as to God's discernment. 
Lionel:
He accepted the inference of the Lettter of the Holy Office 1949. He also did not see thesame wrong reasoning, as the inference in the Letter(1949) used in Vatican Council II. The Council takes hypothetical cases and places them near orthodox passages which support EENS.
Then the secular media and the VaticanCuria interpret them as being explicit.They become exceptions to EENS. The SSPX has still not noticed this !!!
___________________________________

And yes all save a remnant in the Church now belief that other faiths are a path to salvation, or no faith at all for that matter and BOB,BOD and Inv. Ignorance are paths that are an option for Salvation in which ALLof these are heretical teaching. Remember it IS Church teaching that NO ONE can EVER belong to the Soul of the Church who refuses to belong to the BODY of the Church.
Lionel:
'NO ONE can EVER belong to the Soul of the Church who refuses to belong to the BODY of the Church.'These are meaningless words from the Letter of the Holy Office 1949. Like you so many have fallen for this nonsense.

Do you know any one who belongs to the soul and not the body? Is it a hypothetical case for you? What had this line have to do with the Feeneyite version of the dogma EENS ? Nothing? So why was it mentioned? Since it was presumed that these cases are known! Hypothetical cases are known! This is the reasoning in Vatican Council II (UR 3, NA 2, LG 8, LG 16 etc)
-Lionel Andrades

Church changes traditional de fide doctrine : Interview with Fr Norbert Hofmann SDB - NCRegister

Image result for Fr Norbert Hofmann SDB PhotoSalesian Father Norbert Hofmann, secretary of the Vatican Commission for Religious Relations With the Jews, is one of the principal authors of what Jewish groups have called a "groundbreaking" document on Catholic relations with Jews.
The Gifts and Calling of God Are Irrevocable”, which was released last month to coincide with 50 years since the Second Vatican Council declaration Nostra Aetate, is a theological document but not part of the Magisterium. It states explicitly and controversially for the first time that the Church no longer has a “specific institutional mission” to the Jews.
In this exclusive interview with the Register, Father Hofmann says that the document is meant to theologically "deepen" Catholic-Jewish relations. He also explains more about why the Church’s institutional mission to the Jews no longer exists (although prayer for their conversion does), the mystery of salvation for the Jews, and concerns over whether the document is tantamount to a break with two millennia of Tradition.
He also talks about how the document puts to bed supersessionism, otherwise known as "replacement theology", as well as the “Good Friday” prayer for the conversion of the Jews, and whether the document was born out of a sense of guilt for the involvement of Church members in the Shoah and anti-Semitism.
Pope Francis is expected to make reference to some of the contents of the document during his visit to Rome’s Great Synagogue on Sunday.


Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/video-author-of-new-catholic-jewish-document-discusses-its-impact/#ixzz3xaR5mlfN

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-francis-synagogue-visit-underscores-new-document-on-catholic-jewish-re

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Fr. Daniel Couture, the District Superior of Canada issues a controversial statement critical of the Vatican Document on the Jews

Rabbi Jonathan Sachs : Catholic Faith or fundamentalism
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/rabbi-jonathan-sachs-catholic-faith-or.html

Related imageRelated image
No statement from cardinals and bishops criticizing the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith's approval of the political document on the Jews. http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/no-statement-from-cardinals-and-bishops.html

Popes since the time of Pius XII have in public used irrational, non traditional and heretical Cushingism as a theology - 2 http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/popes-since-time-of-pius-xii-have-in.html
Popes since the time of Pius XII have in public used irrational, non traditional and heretical Cushingism as a theology - 1 http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/popes-since-time-of-pius-xii-have-been.html
 
Ann Barnhardt interprets magisterial documents with Cushingism
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/ann-barnhardt-is-using-cushingism-to.html
 
Still no comment from the SSPX on the Vatican heretical document on the Jews http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/still-no-comment-from-sspx-on-vatican.html
Traditionalists are still interpreting Lumen Gentium 16 with Cushingism instead of Feeneyism http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/traditionalists-are-still-interpreting.html
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Cindy Wooden would not know of any exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or Vatican Council II http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/cindy-wooden-cannot-know-of-any.html
Catholics are 'the new people of God ','the Church is the new people of God', the new Chosen People, the Elect, outside of which there is no salvation -Nostra Aetate 4, Vatican Council II http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/catholics-are-new-people-of-god-church.html
Vatican Document on the Jews :Pope Francis and the Vatican are 'under seige and surrender', in submission to Satan's lobby http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/pope-francis-and-vatican-is-under-seige.html
 
Vatican’s Commission for Religious Relations with Jews uses irrational Cushingism as a basic theology
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/vaticans-commission-for-religious.html

Irrational Cushingism theology in the Document on the Jews is also there in Redemptorist Missio and Dominus Iesus http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/irrational-cushingism-theology-in.html
Traditionalists like Reuters correspondents use Cushingism to interpret Vatican Council II : Feeneyism cannot be part of the dialogue.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/traditionalists-like-reuters.html

No denial from traditionalists and Catholic journalists : contemporary TLM and Novus Ordo Mass is modernist, accompanied with a heretical theology (for them)
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/no-denial-from-traditionalists-and.html
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Cardinal Koch issues a politically correct opinion piece on the Jews which contradicts Vatican Council II and other magisterial documents http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/cardinal-koch-issues-politically.html

Discrimination Offices could be approached in Britain : English bishops and FIUV withholding information from Catholics
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/discrimination-offices-need-to-be.html

Orthodox Rabbinic Statement on Christianity : Jewish Left propaganda, no respect for Catholic doctrines
Vatican’s Commission for Religious Relations with Jews uses irrational Cushingism as a basic theology http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/vaticans-commission-for-religious.html
No denial from traditionalists and Catholic journalists : contemporary TLM and Novus Ordo Mass is modernist, accompanied with a heretical theology (for them)
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/no-denial-from-traditionalists-and.html

Cardinal Koch issues a politically correct opinion piece on the Jews which contradicts Vatican Council II and other magisterial documents http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/cardinal-koch-issues-politically.html
 

Pope Francis and Cardinal Muller interpret the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Vatican Council II with irrationality : manifest heresy
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/01/pope-francis-and-cardinal-muller_18.html
Pope Francis and Cardinal Muller interpret the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Vatican Council II with Cushingism : 'the Church' is in manifest heresy
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/01/pope-francis-and-cardinal-muller_17.html
Pope Francis and Cardinal Muller interpret the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Vatican Council II with Cushingism : this is manifest heresy
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/01/pope-francis-and-cardinal-muller.html

 
Roberto de Matteo wrote a piece on the Pope's Video and heresy and he could not affirm the Feeneyite version of the dogma EENS nor could he state that the video contradicts the Feeneyite version of the dogma http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/01/roberto-de-matteo-wrote-piece-on-popes.html

Jimmy Akins writes a politically correct review of the syncretistic, heretical video. The video is an example of official apostasy, magisterial apostasy


Pope Francis and Cardinal Muller interpret the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Vatican Council II with irrationality : manifest heresy

Pope Francis and Cardinal Muller interpret
the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
and Vatican Council II with irrational
Cushingism, I mentioned in a
previous blog post. This is heresy.



The baptism of desire and blood, were
'created' as baptisms equal to the baptism
of water in the Baltimore Catechism.
At Baltimore, USA, they did not know
of any one saved with the baptism of
desire or blood and without the baptism
of water. They did not know of any case
of the baptism of desire which was a
Sacrament like the baptism of water.
Yet they speculated that the baptism
of desire was equivalent to the baptism
of water, and so they placed the baptism
of desire in the baptism of water section.
Then theologians would cite some saint from
the past who referred to the possibility of
being saved with the baptism of desire.They
would imply that this was a known case to
the saint or that we can know of some such
case. This was false.
Yet even today we see this reasoning used
by so many Catholics .
Here is another example.

St. Bonaventure, Doctor of the Church (13th century): In Sent. IV, d.4,P.2,a.I,q.I: “God obliges no one to do the impossible and therefore it must be admitted that the baptism of desire without the baptism of water is sufficient, provided the person in question has the will to receive the baptism of water, but is prevented from doing so before he dies."
Lionel, Just this alone undoes everything you have said on the mercies of God at judgment.
St. Bonaventure, Doctor of the Church (13th century): In Sent. IV, d.4,P.2,a.I,q.I: “God obliges no one to do the impossible and therefore it must be admitted that the baptism of desire without the baptism of water is sufficient, provided the person in question has the will to receive the baptism of water, but is prevented from doing so before he dies." ...THIS WITH COUNTLESS OTHERS IS WAY BEFORE YOUR CONTINUAL attacks on the Church in the 19th century. Your argument is with the Church itself and not me. PRAY for wisdom and understanding,



We can agree that no one can say
that anyone and I mean anyone is in Heaven without baptism
of water. Lionel:But you will soon speculate that it is a
possibility known to God and so there is such case in
Heaven
.Yes God can do what He wishes and has no limitations,
but there is no such known case in the past or present for
us human beings
.So this speculation must not be linked to
the dogma EENS as an exception, in
principle
._______________

I repeat there is no such known case.
St.Bonaventure did not know of any specific case.
Would you agree ? He did not know of any specific case ? There was no known case for him?
So you see liberal theologians have taken this case, and others, assumed they were explicit for us,
in personal cases, then inferred that they were exceptions to the dogma EENS.
Do you see the pattern?
So many people have fallen before this error in reasoning.
-Lionel Amdrades