Saturday, February 18, 2012

SEDEVACANTISTS CMRI COULD AGREE WITH THE VATICAN ON THE SALVATION DOGMA, OTHER RELIGIONS AND VATICAN COUNCIL II

The Congregation of Mary Immaculate Queen (CMRI) and other sedevacantists could really issue a provisional statement saying they could accept a Vatican Council II which  indicates in its text that all non Catholics need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation,to avoid Hell.(Ad Gentes 7 etc). Some of them could appeal to the Vatican to open a dialogue on Vatican Council II which would acknowledge their interpretation of the Council and allow them to reject the Jewish Left version.

The Vatican Curia could also acknowledge that the sedevacantists do not reject Vatican Council II itself but only an interpretation available in the media owned by Talmud Jews.

The CMRI could even cite text from Vatican Council II in accord with the thrice defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

The CMRI could welcome talks with the Vatican and ask for interlocutors who would  not claim that  cases of those saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16),contradict the dogma, when they personally do not know any such case.

Even if there are many issues to be discussed the CMRI could work towards a discussion, and hopefully an agreement, on the salvation dogma, other religions and Vatican Council II.

If the Vatican is willing to accept that there are two versions of Vatican Council II in vogue, they could open communication with Hutton Gibson and other sedevacantists to bring them back into the Church and let them live Vatican Council II as a continuation of Tradition.

Even if talks fail the CMRI could  say ‘We choose to remain sedevacantists (unfortunately) even though we accept Vatican Council II according to Tradition  and reject the Rabbi David Rosen/Chief Rabbinate interpretation for Catholics’.

Unfortunately on the CMRI website they have used the non traditional interpretation of Vatican Council II. For the Rabbis LG 16 (invincible ignorance) could be the ordinary means of salvation, for the CMRI Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14. AG 7 indicates all Jews and Muslims need to convert into the Church with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation. This is the very teaching explained by the CMRI on its website.

The CMRI website says:

NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS

The attitude of the Catholic Church towards pagans, Mohammedans and Jews has always been clear — there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

Lionel:
 This is also the teaching of Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14).

CMRI
Even supposing a person was invincibly ignorant of the true Church, he must still follow the natural law to be saved (implicit baptism of desire).

Lionel:
We do not know any such case in reality. In general the ordinary means is still the baptism of water and Catholic Faith for all people to go to Heaven (Vatican Council II).

CMRI
It is evident, according to Catholic theology, that these false and immoral religions are opposed to the natural law. The Fathers of the Church, as well as many true Popes, have been quite strong in their condemnation of these religions, and especially of Mohammedanism and Judaism, which have persistently attacked the Catholic Church throughout history. The Council Fathers of Vatican II, however, have not only implied the salvation of heretics and schismatics, but also praised these other false religions in their “Declaration on the Relationship of the Church to Non-Christian Religions.”

Lionel:
The Council Fathers have praised the good and holy things in these religions which could be a means to entering the Church. The Council Fathers acknowledge that these religions are not paths to salvation and that there members need to convert to avoid Hell. (AG 7, LG 14).

CMRI
The opening paragraph of this declaration strongly suggests that, yes, salvation may be found outside of the true fold. It states:

“One also in their final goal: God. His providence, His manifestations of goodness, and His saving designs extend to all men against the day when the elect will be united in that Holy City ablaze with the splendor of God, where the nations will walk in His light.” The meaning of this last phrase does not at all agree with a similar phrase found in Sacred Scripture.
Lionel:
 The Church Fathers and the popes have mentioned the possibility, known to only to God, of a non Catholic being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire and they knew that this did not contradict the ’rigorist interpretation’ of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

God may choose, as St. Thomas Aquinas says, to provide these exceptional cases with a preacher or someone to baptize them with water and teach them the Faith. The saints tell us of people who have returned from the dead only to be baptized with water.

So Vatican Council II the “Declaration on the Relationship of the Church to Non-Christian Religions” is in accord with Tradition. The elect are those who have entered Heaven through the Catholic Church, with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water in the manner in which God has provided this grace.

In general one has to be a visible member of the Church for salvation however there can also be certain cases, invisible to us humans, who are made visible members of the Catholic Church and are known only to God.

The CMRI could discover how Vatican Council II indicates the need for traditional Mission to all non Catholics.
-Lionel Andrades

The Decrees of Vatican II Compared with Past Church Teachings (CMRI)

Fr.William Most,EWTN,Catholic Culture assume pope is not infallible ex cathedra ,since Vatican Council II (LG 16) contradicts ex cathedra dogma

EWTN has placed another report on the internet by the late Fr.William Most who believed that the Native Americans were saved in general before the missionaries arrived there, those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are explicitly known to us and so are defacto exceptions to Fr.Leonard Feeney and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

EWTN’s report Leonard Feeney on No Salvation Outside the Church is written allegedly by Fr.William Most. The writer  assumes he knows the theological views of the late Fr.Leonard Feeney and Thomas Sennot .It is not known who is the real author of this report issued by Trinity Communications of Jeffrey Mirus, the liberal President of Catholic Culture.

Catholic Culture assumes that their liberal opinion of all these deceased writers is true.

Fr.William Most it is known, according to an EWTN report, did not acknowledge that  defacto cases of those saved in invincible ignorance are unknown to us.It was not known to Fr.Leonard Feeney or to the Archbishop of Boston. Neither were they known to the Jesuits.So how could it be a real  issue relative to the dogma? Also no Church Father claims that these cases are explcit exceptions to the dogma or that we know of any particular case. Also neither does Vatican Council II make this error.

Fr.William Most rejects Vatican Council II which indicates Catholic Faith and the baptism of water is the ordinary means of salvation (AG 7).Instead he believes that those saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) are the ordinary means of salvation hence the Native American were saved before they converted into the Catholic Church according to him.

Fr.William Most like EWTN and Catholic Culture assume that the pope is not infallible ex cathedra ,since Vatican Council II (LG 16) contradicts an ex cathedra dogma.

Fr.Most uses the irrational defacto-defacto analysis of magisterial texts instead of the traditional dejure-defacto interpretation. For Fr.William Most every one needs to defacto enter the Church for salvation except for those saved in invincible ignorance etc who are defacto allegedly known to us.This is contrary to the Principle of Non Contradiction. It is also heresy to claim that there are defacto exceptions to the dogma.

The report could be titled Fr.Leonard Feeney according to EWTN and  Catholic Culture on No Salvation Outside the Church.-Lionel Andrades

LEONARD FEENEY ON "NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH"

by Fr. William Most
http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/FEENEY2.TXT

MSGR.JOSEPH FENTON AND FR. WILLIAM MOST DID NOT NOTICE THE RICHARD CUSHING ERROR
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/search/label/Fr.William%20Most

EWTN, Trinity Communications, Jefferey Mirus suggest Native Americans before the arrival of the missionaries were saved
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/search/label/Fr.William%20Most

EWTN REMOVES FR.CORAPI BUT CONTINUES TO TEACH HERESY ON FR.LEONARD FEENEY WITH THE APPROVAL OF THE LOCAL BISHOP
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/search/label/Fr.William%20Most
 
THREE COMMON SENSE POINTS TO USE AGAINST PROPAGANDA AGAINST THE CHURCH - WIKIPEDIA AND FR.WILLIAM MOST
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/search/label/Fr.William%20Most

Photo of Fr.Leonard Feeney speaking at the Boston Commons where many converted into the Catholic Church.


DOMINICAN PRIESTS IN ROME SAY WE DO NOT KNOW ANYONE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE ETC: CONTRADICT EWTN


Today mornig I spoke to two Dominican priests at the Basilica of Santa  Maria sopra Minerva, Rome and asked them if they knew any one saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire. Both these priests answered NO. It is known only to God.

According to a report on the internet by the Eternal Word Television Network (EWTN) the Catholic Magisterium rejects the ‘rigorist position of Fr.Feeney that all must be actual members of the Catholic Church to be saved.’

The Dominican priests are saying that we do not know any explicit case of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance etc. So defacto, there are no visible cases which contradict the ‘rigorist position of Fr.Feeney that all must be actual members of the Catholic Church to be saved.’

The Dominicans at this Church, where is it is believed Galileo was tried for not being able to prove the heliocentric model of the universe and then making theological observations, also contradicted EWTN’s interpretation of Pope Pius IX ( Allocution address December 9th, 1854 ).

Pope Pius IX held the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and also affirmed the possibility of non Catholics being saved in invincible ignorance, cases of which are unknown to us and so are  not explicit exceptions to the dogma.

Pope Pius IX was saying : (Defacto) :'We must hold as of the faith, that out of the Apostolic Roman Church there is no salvation; that she is the only ark of safety, and whosoever is not in her perishes in the deluge…’ and ( Dejure): ‘we must also, on the other hand, recognize with certainty that those who are invincible in ignorance of the true religion are not guilty for this in the eyes of the Lord...'

Defacto (explicitly) everyone needs to enter the Church for salvation (to avoid Hell) and de jure (in principle) and known only to God, there could be non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance etc , ‘in certain circumstances’(Letter of the Holy Office 1949).

Instead of a defacto-dejure analysis EWTN uses a defacto-defacto analysis. EWTN says every one needs to defacto enter the Church and there could be some non Catholics in invincible ignorance etc who defacto do not have to enter the Church for salvation. EWTN contradicts the Principle of Non Contradiction.

EWTN also implies that the pope is not infallible ex cathedra since Vatican Council II , Lumen Gentium 16 on invincible ignorance etc contradicts the defined dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441. It also contradicts Dominus Iesus 20, Ad Gentes 7 etc.

EWTN interprets the Catechismof the Catholic Church  and Vatican Council II according to Cushingism which says all need to enter the Church except for those in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire. Cushinghism assumes that those saved with the baptism of desire etc are visible and known to us and so contradicts Fr.Leonard Feeney and the dogma.

To reject an ex cathedra dogma and other authoritative magisterial texts, for whateever reason is heresy. Here EWTN is rejecting these teachings by assuming that those saved in invincible ignorance are defacto known to us and so are exceptions.

EWTN also slanders Fr.Leonard Feeney who died a son of the Church and the excommunication for disobedience was lifted during his lifetime.He held the rigorist interpretation of the dogma outside the church there is no salvation just as the Church Fathers, saints, popes and Councils including Vatican Council II(AG 7,LG 14)
.-Lionel Andrades

Friday, February 17, 2012
EWTN'S NEW REPORT ON OUTSIDE THE CHURCH NO SALVATION ASSUMES THOSE SAVED WITH THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE ETC ARE EXPLCITLY KNOWN TO US AND SO