Friday, September 18, 2020

Vatican Council II interpreted with the false premise contradicts the Holy Spirit of the yesterday. Cardinal Zen does not note.

 


Cardinal Zen: In Vatican II, Catholics hear ‘real voice of the Holy Spirit’ 

By Ed Condon

.- Cardinal Joseph Zen, the emeritus Bishop of Hong Kong, has made an impassioned defense of the Second Vatican Council, criticizing both “extreme conservatives” and “extreme progressives” for rejecting the authority and authenticity of the conciliar documents.

Lionel: Cushingites at CNA did not ask him if the Council could be interpreted with Feeneyism, that is , without the false premise.

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In both an interview with CNA and an essay published on his own website, Cardinal Zen said that, for decades, Vatican Council II had been misused to advance “subjective” and “narrow” agendas within the Church.

The cardinal called for a new appreciation of the council documents themselves, and a renewed understanding of what the Church teaches an ecumenical council to be.

“Vatican II happened 50 years ago, but it surely doesn’t belong to the past, its light still leads the Church through the darkness of her journey today,” Zen said in the July 17 essay, in which the cardinal warned against the “danger” of polemical interpretations.

Zen warned against interpretations of Vatican II not “faithful to the documents of the Council, but rather a subjective understanding of it.”

Lionel: Vatican Council II interpreted without the false premise would change his subjective interpretation of the Council. 

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Both “progressive” and “traditionalist” factions within the Church have advanced in recent criticisms the idea that the Second Vatican Council, which took place from 1962 to 1965, represents a definitive break with previous Church teaching and authority. This interpretation of the Vatican II is often called a “hermeneutic of rupture.” 

Lionel: With the false premise the Council is obviously has a hermeneutic of rupture even a school boy would notice this. 

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Zen wrote that such interpretations are foreign to the nature of an ecumenical council.

“The extreme conservatives say: The Church after the Vatican II is no more the Catholic Church I received baptism in. But you were baptized in a Church which believes in one apostolic Church, led by the Pope and the Bishops as authentic teachers of faith,” Zen wrote in his essay.

Lionel : It is the new church which rejects or changes Magisterial documents including the Creeds by using a false premise. So there is a new liberalism in the Church. They use a false premise and call it a development of doctrine. 

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“The extreme progressives say: Before the Council nothing was allowed to change, now with Vatican II many changes have been made, so, many things should be allowed to change also in the future.”

Rejecting both characterizations, Zen cited St. John Henry Newman.

"The Church is a living body; it certainly grows and changes, but, as Cardinal John Henry Newman puts it, the development is ‘homogeneous,’ i.e. with the substantial identity not altered. A boy grows into maturity and he is still the same person."

The authentic work of Church reform comes “only by a decision of the legitimate authority, not by an arbitrary choice of anybody, and surely not by undoing the past,” Zen added. 

“The Holy Spirit of today doesn’t contradict the Holy Spirit of yesterday.”

Lionel: Precisely and Vatican Council II interpreted with the false premise contradicts the Holy Spirit of yesterday on EENS, Athanasius Creed, Syllabus of Errors...-Lionel Andrades

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In his post, prompted by a series of articles on Vatican Council II by a priest in Hong Kong, Zen argued that many debates about Vatican II misunderstand the Church’s theological understanding of ecumenical councils.

“Let us start from the fundamentals: What are the Ecumenical Councils for? They are not for the creation of a new Church, but for a new self-understanding. The Church was founded by Jesus Christ on the Apostles.”

CNA asked Zen about the position of Catholics who question the legitimacy of the council while claiming to stand within the tradition of the faith.

“The Church’s ‘tradition’ is the living Church, founded on the Apostles,” Zen answered. “The ecumenical councils are the milestones on this journey of the Church through centuries. The first ‘Ecumenical Council’ of Jerusalem declared: ‘The Holy Spirit and we (the Apostles) have decided…”, it’s not only a question of canon law. Each Ecumenical Council is a ‘Sacrosanctum Concilium’!”

In recent weeks, some Catholic voices have argued that the documents of Vatican II are the cause of erroneous theological positions advanced after the council. They have suggested that Vatican Council II should be in some way repudiated, either by Pope Francis or one of his eventual successors.

Former Vatican ambassador Archbishop Carlo Viganò said in an interview last month that at the Second Vatican Council “hostile forces” caused “the abdication of the Catholic Church” through a “sensational deception.”

“The errors of the post-conciliar period were contained in nuce in the Conciliar Acts,” the archbishop added, accusing the council, and not just its aftermath, of overt error.

Speaking to CNA, Zen rejected the idea that authentic acts of an ecumenical council could contain errors of faith.

“The post-conciliar errors do not belong to the Council, just as heresies do not belong to the Bible,” the cardinal told CNA.

Citing ongoing debates about liturgical reform after the council, Zen said that “when Pope Benedict talked about a ‘Reform of the Reform in liturgy,’ he is not repudiating the conciliar liturgical constitution but the abuses that originated from a distorted interpretation or even the repudiation of that constitution.”

In his July 17 essay, Zen called for a rediscovery of the texts of council, which he called the true fruits of Vatican II. “Through those documents you hear the real voice of the Holy Spirit,” he said.

At the same time, the cardinal acknowledged the human politicking which played out around the council, and recalled being a young priest studying in Rome at the time.

“I enjoyed, like other young priests and seminarians in Rome, all the daily hot news and gossips about the Council; the fierce battles along the stereotype of divide between conservatives and progressives; Council Fathers accusing each other with leaflets flying over Saint Peter’s square…The jokes!” he recalled in his essay.

But Zen stressed that the human participants in the council, and even malevolent spiritual attacks, could not overcome or exclude the agency of the Holy Spirit.

“There is a saying, not far from the truth: an Ecumenical Council starts from human efforts, then comes the devil to make trouble, but at the end the Holy Spirit brings everything to a happy ending.”

The cardinal told CNA that Catholics at all levels need to rediscover and re-appreciate the documents of the council to understand what the Church in the post-conciliar period is called to be.

“The Ecumenical Council concluded with documents,” he said, “then it’s the duty of popes and bishops to make those documents living realities.”

CNA asked Zen if he believes there has been a failure to transmit the teachings of the conciliar documents to ordinary Catholics, and how they could be better brought to the faithful.

Zen said that “the main channel [for transmitting the council’s authentic teaching] is the seminarian formation of the clergy.”

“Unfortunately there are theologians who put themselves above the Council documents, [but] vice versa there are outstanding lay people, docile to the Holy Spirit, who draw out from the documents all the wisdom contained therein.”

Zen said that his recommendation is that all Catholics better familiarize themselves with the context of the council itself, and why it was called.

“I believe it would be very fruitful to read the opening sermon of Vatican II by Pope John XXIII, where he explained the true meaning of 'aggiornamento': facing all the threats of modern civilization the Church must not be afraid, but find the ways apt to show to the world the true face of Jesus, the Redeemer of Man.”

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/cardinal-zen-in-vatican-council-ii-catholics-hear-real-voice-of-the-holy-spirit-62749

The German Synodal Way is based upon the interpretation of Vatican Council II with a false premise but so is the theology of Cardinal Walter Brandmuller.

 The German Synodal Way is based upon the interpretation of Vatican Council II with a false premise but so is the theology of Cardinal Walter Brandmuller. -Lionel Andrades

Bishop Athanasius Schneider is quiet over the last few weeks. He has decided not to answer questions I have put to him. The Lefebvrists have decided not to talk in public about the false premise.It would expose the error of the popes since Paul VI on Vatican Council II but also that of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Michael Davies, the Hildebrands,Roberto dei Mattei, Fr.Nicholas Gruner, John Vennari and Christopher Ferrara.

 Bishop Athanasius Schneider is quiet over the last few weeks. He has decided not to answer questions I have put to him. The Lefebvrists have decided not to talk in public about the false premise.It would expose the error of the popes since Paul VI on Vatican Council II but also that of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Michael Davies, the Hildebrands,Roberto dei Mattei, Fr.Nicholas Gruner, John Vennari and Christopher Ferrara. -Lionel Andrades

Lefebvrists like the members of the International Theological Commission(ITC), Vatican do not want to speak to me. They do not want to answer simple questions.Both groups use the false premise to interpret Vatican Council II.

 Lefebvrists like the members of the International Theological Commission(ITC), Vatican do not want to speak to me. They do not want to answer simple questions.Both groups use the false premise to interpret Vatican Council II. -Lionel Andrades

Pope Benedict has politicized the International Theological Commission (ITC), Vatican.The ITC uses the common false premise to reject Tradition and create the new liberalism.The Catholic News Agency recently asked a theologian-member of the ITC to comment on Archbishop Carlo Vigano's statements on Vatican Council II.The ITC member a Cushingite, does not ask Vigano to interpret Vatican Council II with Feeneyism.If he did, he would be out of the ITC.

 Pope Benedict has politicized the International Theological Commission (ITC), Vatican.The ITC uses the common false premise to reject Tradition and create the new liberalism.The Catholic News Agency recently asked a theologian-member of the ITC to comment on Archbishop Carlo Vigano's statements on Vatican Council II.The ITC member a Cushingite, does not ask Vigano to interpret Vatican Council II with Feeneyism.If he did, he would be out of the ITC. -Lionel Andrades

Maike Hickson has written about the Third Secret of Fatima and a world wide apostasy. She does not realize that her interpretation of Vatican Council II with a false premise ( instead of without it) is part of the apostasy. With the false premise the strict interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus becomes obsolete.

 Maike Hickson has written about the Third Secret of Fatima and a world wide apostasy. She does not realize that her interpretation of Vatican Council II with a false premise ( instead of without it) is part of the apostasy. With the false premise the strict interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus becomes obsolete. -Lionel Andrades

When the Catechism of the Council of Trent mentions 'the baptism therof' (the baptism of desire) it is a reference to a hypothetical case only.It does not contradict exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.

 When the Catechism of the Council of Trent mentions 'the baptism therof' (the baptism of desire) it is a reference to a hypothetical case only.It does not contradict exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church. -Lionel Andrades

When the Catechism of Pope Pius X mentions invincible ignorance it refers to a theoretical and speculative case only.It does not contradict 24Q and 27 Q on exclusive salvation in that catechism.

 When the Catechism of Pope Pius X mentions invincible ignorance it refers to a theoretical and speculative case only.It does not contradict 24Q and 27 Q  on exclusive salvation in that catechism. -Lionel Andrades

St.Ignatius of Loyola, Fr. Francis Xavier, St.Francis of Assisi and St. Bonaventure had chosen Feeneyite EENS( EENS with BOD, BOB and I.I not being exceptions). Archbishop Carlo Vigano, the Lefebvrists and the Society of St. Pius X priests and bishops, instead chose Cushingite EENS( EENS with BOD, BOB and I.I being exceptions).

 St.Ignatius of Loyola, Fr. Francis Xavier, St.Francis of Assisi and St. Bonaventure  had chosen Feeneyite EENS( EENS with BOD, BOB and I.I not being exceptions).

Archbishop Carlo Vigano, the Lefebvrists and the Society of St. Pius X priests and bishops, instead chose Cushingite EENS( EENS with BOD, BOB and I.I being exceptions).

You can choose the hermeneutic of continuity with Tradition( Feeneyite EENS, Syllabus of Errors etc).

It's simple. Accept BOD,BOB and I.I but do not project them as being visible and known cases in the present times (1965-2020).

So you would reject Cushingism( Cushingite EENS, Cushingite Syllabus, Cushingite Catechisms, Cushingite Vatican Council II etc).-Lionel Andrades

Being able to interpret Vatican Council II without the false premise will come as a shock to many German theologians and ecclesiastics

 Being able to interpret Vatican Council II without the false premise will come as a shock to many German theologians and ecclesiastics. -Lionel Andrades

All the books on Vatican Council II reviewed by the NCR, Commonweal and the Tablet have this mistake.

 All the books on Vatican Council II reviewed by the National Catholic Reporter were written with a false premise to create a new liberalism and an aritifical rupture with Tradition( Feeneyite EENS, Syllabus of Errors etc).

All the books on Vatican Council II reviewed by the NCR, Commonweal and the Tablet have this mistake. -Lionel Andrades

Catholic politicians (Matteo Salvini, Roberto Fiore, Fabrizio Lastei...) cannot unite the people with the Faith since there is no unity on doctrine. The liberals and Lefebvrists have created new doctrines with a false premise. So the exclusivist ecclesiology is not there any more.

 Catholic politicians (Matteo Salvini, Roberto Fiore, Fabrizio Lastei...) cannot unite the people with the Faith since there is no unity on doctrine. The liberals and Lefebvrists have created new doctrines with a false premise. So the exclusivist ecclesiology is not there any more. -Lionel Andrades

We need new books on Vatican Council II. A new road map.

 We need new books on Vatican Council II. A new road map. -Lionel Andrades 

Michael Matt and Hilary White support an irrational interpretation of Vatican Council II with reference to EENS, the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX,Creeds and First Commandment. So they support a false church within the Catholic Church.

 Michael Matt and Hilary White support an irrational interpretation of Vatican Council II with reference to EENS, the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX,Creeds and First Commandment.

 So they support a false church within the Catholic Church. -Lionel Andrades

Whatever is your opinion of the St.Benedict Center, N.H, USA...Lumen Gentium 16 cannot contradict Feeneyite EENS i.e EENS with BOD, BOB and I.I not being exceptions.

 Whatever is your opinion of the St.Benedict Center, N.H, USA...Lumen Gentium 16 cannot contradict Feeneyite EENS i.e EENS with BOD, BOB and I.I not being exceptions. -Lionel Andrades


 







You can shift from a hermeneutic of rupture with EENS and the Syllabus of Errors to a hermeneutic of continuity. No change has to be made in Vatican Council II. Just read the text differently. It's as easy as changing gears in your car

  




You can shift from a hermeneutic of rupture with EENS and the Syllabus of Errors to a hermeneutic of continuity. No change has to be made in Vatican Council II. Just read the text differently. It's as easy as changing gears in your car. -Lionel Andrades


  

 





The conservative-liberal doctrinal division is created only with the false premise. Since the liberalism comes with the irrational premise and non traditional inference.Tradition can be rejected by confusing what is invisible as being visible and then making a false inference.

 The conservative-liberal doctrinal division is created only with the false premise. Since the liberalism comes with the irrational premise and non traditional inference.Tradition can be rejected by confusing what is invisible as being visible and then making a false inference.-Lionel Andrades

Pick up any book on Vatican Council II. The author has supported the new liberalism by using a false premise, confusing what is invisible as being visible.In this way a break is created with exclusive salvation in the Church as it was known for centuries.These books on Vatican Council II are obsolete now. The Church has identified the error and moved ahead. New books on Vatican Council II need to be written.

 Pick up any book on Vatican Council II. The author has supported the new liberalism by using a false premise, confusing what is invisible as being visible.In this way a break is created with exclusive salvation in the Church as it was known for centuries.These books on Vatican Council II are obsolete now. The Church has identified the error and moved ahead. New books on Vatican Council II need to be written. Lionel Andrades

If the present two popes did not use the false premise they would be conservative. With the use of the false premise they are liberal. The liberal and conservative position emerges with the false premise.It does not depend upon the Holy Mass, Novus Ordo or Latin.

 


If the present two popes did not use the false premise they would be conservative. With the use of the false premise they are liberal.

The liberal and conservative position emerges with the false premise.It does not depend upon the Holy Mass, Novus Ordo or Latin. -Lionel Andrades 



 






I am in a Feeneyite Catholic Church and you, a good Catholic, are probably in a Cushingite one.

 I am in a Feeneyite Catholic Church and you, a good Catholic, are probably in a Cushingite one. -Lionel Andrades








 












 


  

  






  



  

 







PROBLEMS WITH REDEMPTORIS MISSIO (RM)


 










When we do not interpret Vatican Council II with the false premise it's a new way of being Church and yet it is the old way.

 When we do not interpret Vatican Council II with the false premise it's a new way of being Church and yet it is the old way. -Lionel Andrades

When Pope Benedict says all who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church, this is the New Theology. It is false. It pre-supposes that there are exceptions to EENS, Feeneyite Syllabus of Errors and traditional exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.

 When Pope Benedict says all who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church, this is the New Theology. It is false. It pre-supposes that there are exceptions to EENS, Feeneyite Syllabus of Errors and traditional exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church. -Lionel Andrades



So many books on Vatican Council II written with an error. Don't buy them.

 





So many books on Vatican Council II written with an error. Don't buy them.

I am not a Lefebvrist traditionalist nor a liberal. I do not use the false premise.

We need knew books on Vatican Council II. A new road map.

We have found the missing link We now know what causes the hermeneutic of rupture with EENS and how to avoid it. -Lionel Andrades





Let your theology be premise-free

 


Let your theology be premise-free. -Lionel Andrades