John Henry Newman, Archbishop Carlo Vigano and Maike Hickson
have still not cited Vatican Council II ( rational ) which would say
Jews need to convert with faith and baptism ( Ad Gentes 7).Instead Life Site
News has produced an old ‘show’ ( pun intended) in which Bruno Forte says Jews
do not need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation.
So John Henry Weston is politically correct with the Left and does not affirm the Cathlic Faith according to Vatican Council .
Even Michael Voris and Christine Niles at Church Militant TV do not speak about Vatican Council II (rational) since it is sensitive for the Jewish Left and the Muslims in Detroit, Michigan.
But when they interpret Lumen Gentium 14 (baptism of desire) and Lumen Gentium 16 (invincible ignorance) as being visible and not invisible examples of salvation outside the Church.They are assumed to be objective exceptions for Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).
Then the Nicene Creed means ‘I believe in three or more baptisms for the forgiveness of sins and they exclude the baptism of water in the Catholic Church. So they are exceptions for Feeneyite EENS.'
The Apostles Creed means ‘ I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, which teaches that outside the Church there is known salvation and not outside the Church there is salvation, as in the past.’
The Athanasius Creed which says all need the Catholic faith for salvation, also has exceptions according to this error.
So we have two interpretations of Vatican Council II. John Henry Weston’s and mine.
We have two versions of the Creeds. Life Site News and mine.
There are two versions of the Catechisms which mention the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and invincible ignorance.
In the USA and Italy the Catholic Church supports and does not oppose the political left, with Catholic doctrine. There is the non separation of the Church and the Leftist state.- Lionel Andrades
_____________________________
THURSDAY, JULY 21, 2011
CATHOLIC PRIESTS CORRECT POPE BENEDICT'S MISTAKE : WE DO NOT KNOW ANY CASE OF A NON CATHOLIC SAVED IMPLICITLY BY JESUS AND THE CHURCH SO IT DOES NOT CONTRADICT CANTATE DOMINO,COUNCIL OF FLORENCE
Catholic priests have said, it is reported on this blog, that the dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence is de fide and is not contradicted by Vatican Council II or the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
So when the pope says that we do not have to pray for the conversion of the Jews in the present times what text is he using to base this statement?
The Bible tells us Jews need to convert into the Church Jesus founded and if they do not they will be condemned to Hell (John 3:5, Mark 16:16, John 6 (the necessity of the Eucharist etc).
Magisterial documents during the Pontificate of Pope John Paul II has the same message (CCC 845,846, Dominus Iesus 20, Ecclesia di Eucrestia (outside the church no salvation ecclesiology etc).
Church Councils and popes have in the Extraordinary and Ordinary Mode affirmed the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which says Jews need to convert in the present times.
Pope Benedict XVI in Light to the World-Conversations with Peter Seewald also repeats that Jews do not have to convert in the present times.
Pope Benedict XVI says that he has revised the ancient liturgy (on Good Friday) so that it does not say that Jews need to convert in the present times but that they will convert in a future time (eschatological time).
So he is saying that he has revised the Good Friday Prayer for the Conversion of the Jews which now says Jews do not have to convert in the present times.
I modified it in such a way that… one did not pray directly for the conversion of the Jews…but that the Lord might hasten the historic hour in which we will all be united.-Light of the World-Conversations with Peter Seewald (Ignatius) p.107
Pope Benedict XVI states above that he revised the Good Friday Prayer ‘in such a way that it contained our faith, that Christ is salvation for all.’ (This of course does not say that all Jews are on the path to Hell unless they convert as the Church has taught for centuries. This was the one way of salvation) The pope says ‘that there do not exist two ways of salvation’( The pope indicates there is only one way of salvation and Jews are saved in general through this one way; Christ and the Church, and so they do not have to convert. Catholic priests have pointed out that we do not know any case of a non Catholic saved by Jesus and the Church. There is no case of implicit salvation which is explicit for us. The dogma says everyone needs to be an explicit member of the Church. So the pope’s one way of salvation is a strawman) The pope continues ‘and that therefore Christ is also the saviour of the Jews, and not only of the pagans ‘(Christ is the Saviour of the Jews and pagans and they are saved, even if they do not enter the Catholic Church? Pope John Paul II’s Dominus Iesus n.20 says Jesus has died for all but to receive this salvation they need to enter the Church. The Catechism of the Catholic Church 846 says that the Church is like a door in which all need to enter, Ad Gentes 7 says all need baptism for salvation).
The dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II and Dominus Iesus 20 say there is only one way of salvation and everyone with no exception needs to enter the Church to be saved.
The pope’s 'one way of salvation' includes those saved in invincible ignorance etc (Lumen Gentium 16). The book actually contradicts Lumen Gentium 16, Vatican Council II, which does not claim that we know personally, people saved in invincible ignorance. So it is wrongly assumed that LG 16 contradicts the ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. LG 16 refers to implicit salvation and not to explicit cases known to us. We can affirm LG 16 and also Cantate Domino, Council of Florence. Rationality tells us that we do not know a single case in the present times of a person saved in invincible ignorance. So how can it contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus? So the pope’s ‘no two ways of salvation’ is not rational or Catholic
A front page article (April 10, 2008) in the L’Osservatore Romano was written by Cardinal Walter Kaspar .It was presented to the Chief Rabbinate of Israel by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, Vatican Secretary of State. It was approved by the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI.
The article said that Vatican Council II indicated that non Catholics can be saved. So Cardinal Kaspar concluded that Jews do not have to convert in the present times.
Cardinal William Levada, Prefect of the Congregation for Doctrine and Faith, Vatican also never issued a clarification when on Sept 22,2009 Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco, President of the Conference of Catholic Bishops of Italy quoted Cardinal Bertone saying that the Revised Good Friday Prayer was not for the conversion of the Jews and Jews do not have to convert.
Angelo Bagnasco, Archbishop of Genoa and President of the Italian Catholic Bishops Conference (CEI) stated that Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, Vatican Secretary of State had clearly expressed the sentiments of the Holy Father to the Rabbinate of Israel after the Revised Prayer for the Conversion of the Jews was announced. This was reported in Avvenire the daily newspaper of the Italian Bishops Conference. (23.09.2009).
The report further said that after the CEI communiqué emphasized that there was no intention to actively convert Jews the Rabbinical Assembly decided to normalize relations which were broken in 2007. It was also noted that the prayer referred to the conversion of the Jews in the eschatological time (end of time) in the future and not now.
There was to be no conversion of the Jews in the present times, the report indicated and that this had the approval of the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI.
The Revised Prayer for the Conversion of the Jews was not for the conversion of present day Jews. The Avvenire report was available on the internet (' Gironata ebraico-cristiana riprende la celebrazione commune Bagnasco ai rabbinic Laras e Di Segni : diamo nuovo slancio al dialogo di Lorenzo Rosoli p. 8, Chiesa).
1. Pope Benedict approved the article written on the front page of the L’Osservatore Romano by Cardinal Kaspar and sent to the Chief Rabbinate of Israel. The message was Jews do not have to convert in the present times. Also it was alleged that this was taught in Vatican Council II.
2. Pope Benedict approved the meeting of Cardinal Bagnasco with the two Rabbis when Bagnasco issued a directive of the Conference of Catholic Bishops saying that Jews do not have to convert in the present times. Bagnasco claimed that it had the support of the Pope.
3. The pope approved Cardinal Bertone’s claim to the Chief Rabbinate through a Letter, public, that we Catholics had a belief in Jesus. (That was about all). And that the Chief Rabbinate had read the article by Cardinal Kaspar which said Jews do not have to convert in the present times.
This new teaching was been given to us after protests were made by the Chief Rabbinate of Israel and the Jewish Left. Dialogue with the Vatican was suspended. The issue was the Good Friday Prayer for the Conversion of Jews.
Pope Benedict XVI is my pope and I pray for him. I would not dare to make any comments on his personality or character. I try to restrict myself to theology and doctrine.
The Catholic priests are clear that we do not know any case of implicit salvation on earth and so it does not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which says everyone on earth needs to be a Catholic explicitly with no exception.
Judaism
I must say that from the first day of my theological studies, the profound unity between the Old and New Testament, between the two parts of our Sacred Scripture, was somehow clear to me. I had realized that we could read the New Testament only together with what had preceded it, otherwise we would not understand it. Then naturally what happened in the Third Reich struck us as Germans, and drove us all the more to look at the people of Israel with humility, shame, and love.
In my theological formation, these things were interwoven, and marked the pathway of my theological thought. So it was clear to me – and here again in absolute continuity with John Paul II – that in my proclamation of the Christian faith there had to be a central place for this new interweaving, with love and understanding, of Israel and the Church, based on respect for each one’s way of being and respective mission[. . .]A change also seemed necessary to me in the ancient liturgy. In fact, the formula was such as to truly wound the Jews, and it certainly did not express in a positive way the great, profound unity between Old and New Testament. For this reason, I thought that a modification was necessary in the ancient liturgy, in particular in reference to our relationship with our Jewish friends. I modified it in such a way that it contained our faith, that Christ is salvation for all. That there do not exist two ways of salvation, and that therefore Christ is also the savior of the Jews, and not only of the pagans. But also in such a way that one did not pray directly for the conversion of the Jews in a missionary sense, but that the Lord might hasten the historic hour in which we will all be united. For this reason, the arguments used polemically against me by a series of theologians are rash, and do not do justice to what was done. - Benedict XVI, “Light of the World: The Pope, the Church, and the Signs of the Times”, Ignatius Press, 2010. (From the website La Chiesa)(Emphasis added)
------------------------------------------------
According to the Jewish JTA
Italian Jewish leaders drop Church boycott
September 23, 2009
ROME (JTA) -- Italian Jewish leaders will drop their boycott of the Catholic Church's annual celebration of Judaism.
Italian rabbis pulled out of this year's Jan. 17 "Day of Judaism" over the Vatican's reintroduction last year of a Good Friday Latin prayer that appeared to call for the conversion of Jews. The decision to drop the boycott comes after they received assurances that the Church does not actively try to convert Jews.
The Italian Bishops Conference said in a statement that the agreement to resume participation came at a meeting that Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco, the president of the Italian Bishops Council, held Tuesday with Rome Chief Rabbi Riccardo Di Segni and Rabbi Giuseppe Laras, the president of the Italian Rabbinical Assembly.
"There was a common belief that the resumption of this celebration will help mutual understanding and render collaboration for the growth of love towards God and neighbors more fruitful," the statement said.
At the meeting, the statement said, Bagnasco offered Rosh Hashanah greetings and also underscored "in the most absolute way" that the Church has not changed its policy toward the Jews.
"The Conference of Italian Bishops reiterated that it is not the intention of the Catholic Church to work actively for the conversion of the Jews," the statement said.
Bagnasco also expressed concern about continuing incidents of anti-Semitism that he said must be countered.
SUNDAY, APRIL 8, 2012
DID THE POPE REALLY DENY THE FAITH ON THE NEED FOR JEWS TO CONVERT ?
Yesterday on a blog I was accused of being a liar because I said Pope Benedict XVI said Jews do not have to convert in the present time. (1) The writer (Jabba Papa) quoted the relevant passage. He denied that the pope had made that statement under pressure from the Zionists.
Here is the passage in which the Holy Father dismisses the Nicene Creed, the defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Vatican Council II (Ad Gentes 7). According to the teachings of the Church any religious in this position is automatically excommunicated. Catholics have suffered persecution for not denying this very truth of our Faith. The Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) could be excommunicated this month for not affirming the same ‘heresy?’ as the pope. They have to accept the Jewish Left version of Vatican Council II and cannot say that they affirm Vatican Council II in accord with Tradition and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
1. JabbaPapa says:
April 7, 2012 at 16:10
Pope Benedict XVI in Light of the World-Conversations with Peter Seewald says Jews do not have to convert in the present times.
Do you think that it is an appropriate manner to celebrate the Resurrection of our Lord to post blatant lies about the Holy Father?
Here’s what the Pope wrote:
The old formulation really was offensive to Jews and failed to express positively the overall intrinsic unity between the Old and New Testament. For this reason, I believed that a modification of this passage in the old liturgy was necessary, especially, as I have already said, out of consideration for our relation with our Jewish friends. I altered the text in such a way as to express our faith that Christ is the Savior for all, that there are not two channels of salvation, so that Christ is also the redeemer of the Jews, and not just of the Gentiles.
But the new formulation also shifts the focus from a direct petition for the conversion of the Jews in a missionary sense to a plea that the Lord might bring about the hour of history when we may all be united. So the polemical arguments with which a whole series of theologians assailed me are ill-considered; they do not accurately reflect the reality of the situation.
In other words, rather than these mendacious claims that you have posted being accurate — the exact opposite is true, and in that book, Pope Benedict XVI has called for the conversion of the Jews.
You should be utterly ashamed for posting these sorts of lies on the eve of Easter.
2. Lionel Andrades says:
April 7, 2012 at 16:42
Jabba Papa:
Here’s what the Pope wrote :
The old formulation really was offensive to Jews and failed to express positively the overall intrinsic unity between the Old and New Testament.
Lionel:
It was offensive to the Chief Rabbinate of Israel in public they broke dialogue with the Vatican.
Pope Benedict XVI:
For this reason, I believed that a modification of this passage in the old liturgy was necessary, especially,
Lionel:
So because of the protests the Holy Father thought a modification of the passage was necessary.
Pope Benedict XVI:
as I have already said, out of consideration for our relation with our Jewish friends.
Lionel:
And to prevent the reported threat of violence and further protests reported in the media…
Pope Benedict XVI:
I altered the text in such a way as to express our faith that Christ is the Savior for all,
Lionel:
Here there is no problem. Christ is the Saviour of all.
Pope Benedict XVI:
that there are not two channels of salvation,
Lionel:
Here is the problem .
There is only one channel for the pope and this channel is that all who are saved are saved by Christ.Fine, except the centuries old one channel was Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.
There can be those saved in their religion and this is not an exception to the dogma which referred to the one channel of salvation. So there really is one channel and all Jews need to enter it with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water. This means the need to convert in the present time. The pope says they do not have to convert.
Conceptually, vaguely he says all those who are saved are saved by Christ.
Pope Benedict XVI:
so that Christ is also the redeemer of the Jews, and not just of the Gentiles.
Lionel: This is not an issue. This was accepted.
The question is: Christ is also the redeemer of the Jews and not just of the Gentiles and does it mean that all Jews do not have to convert in the present time?
Pope Benedict XVI:
But the new formulation also shifts the focus from a direct petition for the conversion of the Jews in a missionary sense
Lionel:
‘Shifts the focus from a direct petition for conversion’????
‘I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sin’-Nicene Creed. Except for the Jews in 2012. Not applicable for them?
Jabba:
to a plea that the Lord might bring about the hour of history when we may all be united. So the polemical arguments with which a whole series of theologians assailed me are ill-considered; they do not accurately reflect the reality of the situation.
In other words, rather than these mendacious claims that you have posted being accurate — the exact opposite is true, and in that book, Pope Benedict XVI has called for the conversion of the Jews.
Lionel:
‘Shifts the focus from a direct petition for conversion’????-Pope Benedict XVI
____________________________________________'I modified it in such a way that… one did not pray directly for the conversion of the Jews…but that the Lord might hasten the historic hour in which we will all be united.'- Light of the World-Conversations with Peter Seewald (Ignatius) p.107
'one did not pray directly for the conversion of the Jews' since they do not have to convert to avoid Hell it is implied and that they will be saved in general in their religion.
On Sept 22,2009 Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco,President of the Italian Catholic Bishops Conference (CEI) before two Jewish rabbis gave into pressure by them and issued a CEI directive which said that Jews do not have to convert in the present times.The Cardinal stated that he had the support of the Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Bertone and the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI. There has been no contradiction from the Vatican.
Cardinal Bertone also had called the attention of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel to a front page article in the L'Osservatore Romano written by Cardinal Walter Kaspar in which he stated Jews do not have to convert in the present time.The cardinal issued the statement on Sept.22,2009 .It was reported in the daily Avvenire, on Sept.23, 2009
The front page article (April 10, 2008) in the L’Osservatore Romano was written by Cardinal Walter Kaspar.It was presented to the Chief Rabbinate of Israel by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, Vatican Secretary of State. It was approved by the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI.The article said that Vatican Council II indicated that non Catholics can be saved. So Cardinal Kaspar concluded that Jews do not have to convert in the present times.
The front page article (April 10, 2008) in the L’Osservatore Romano was written by Cardinal Walter Kaspar.It was presented to the Chief Rabbinate of Israel by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, Vatican Secretary of State. It was approved by the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI.The article said that Vatican Council II indicated that non Catholics can be saved. So Cardinal Kaspar concluded that Jews do not have to convert in the present times.
Cardinal William Levada, Prefect of the Congregation for Doctrine and Faith, Vatican never issued a clarification on Sept 22,2009 when Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco quoted Cardinal Bertone saying that the Revised Good Friday Prayer was not for the conversion of the Jews and Jews do not have to convert.
The Revised Prayer for the Conversion of the Jews was not for the conversion of present day Jews the daily newspaper of the Italian Bishops Conference Avvenire reported (' Gironata ebraico-cristiana riprende la celebrazione commune Bagnasco ai rabbinic Laras e Di Segni : diamo nuovo slancio al dialogo di Lorenzo Rosoli p. 8, Chiesa).- Lionel Andrades
1.
Friday, April 6, 2012
ANIVERSARY OF THE DENIAL OF THE FAITH BY THE MAGISTERIUM ?http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/aniversary-of-denial-of-faith-by.html
________________________________
, JUNE 27, 2018
Repost : Rabbi teaches error at the Angelicum
NOVEMBER 1, 2013
Rabbi teaches error at the Angelicum
The Angelicum has employed a rabbi who is teaching errors to Catholic students.
At the University of St. Thomas Aquinas (Angelicum), Rome the rabbi who teaches ecumenism, will not admit, it seems, that there are no known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. He will not teach that there are no known exceptions to the dogma mentioned in Vatican Council II.
Vatican Council II does not contradict the traditional teaching on ecumenism and other religions but he is not going to teach it.
The Catholic Church's teaching on ecumenism, the subject he teaches, has not changed.He will not admit it.
This rabbi also protested to Rorate Caeili (New Catholic) when this issue was discussed by Rorate.Since then Rorate has maintained a politically correct taboo on this subject.
Pope John Paul II's Ut Unum Sint tells us that Christian communities and churches must accept the authority of the pope and be united with the Catholic Church.
Vatican Council II (AG 7) says all need faith and baptism for salvation.This includes all Christians who do not have Catholic Faith. For salvation Protestants , Pentecostals etc need to enter the Catholic Church,'as through a door'.(CCC 846, AG 7 etc). It is possible that a Protestant can be saved in imperfect communion with the Church(UR 3). However we do not know any such case in 2013 for UR 3 to be an exception to AG 7 ( all need faith and baptism). So those saved in imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3) , seeds of the Word (AG 11) and elements of sanctification and truth (LG 8) are not known exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So when the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 during the pontificate of Pope Pius XII, mentioned implicit desire and being saved in invincible ignorance, this was not an exception to 'the dogma', the 'infallible teching' also mentioned in the Letter.Fr.Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for disobedience according to the Letter. The Church did not ask him to recant since he was not in heresy. It was the Archbishop and the Jesuits in Boston who really were in heresy for claiming there were known exceptions to a defined dogma, even when they could not name these exceptions.
The rabbi supports his error by citing liberal sources at the Vatican's Council for Christian Unity, who also make this objective error. This can be seen in an article/talk given by Cardinal Walter Kaspar and posted on the website of theCouncil for Christian Unity. Cardinal Kaspar, the report shows, assumes Pope Pius XII faulted Fr. Leonard Feeney , for his 'rigorist interpretation' of the dogma.This theory could have originated in a Freemason Lodge.
Since the Letter does not say that implicit desire etc are known to us in the present times or that they are exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Cardinal Kaspar assumes that there are known exceptions and then builds his theology on this objective error.Vatican Council II appears 'ambigous' and liberal for him and the traditional teaching on ecumenism and other religions has been discarded. He is using the visible- dead theology of Cardinal Richard Cushing. The rabbi and the faculty at the Angelicum are doing the same.This is repeating a lie even after being infomed.
-Lionel Andrades
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/06/repost-rabbi-teaches-error-at-angelicum.html
MARCH 29, 2018
Repost : Catholic News Blackout on Bagnasco-Rabbis sell out
OCTOBER 1, 2009
CATHOLIC NEWS BLACK OUT CONTINUES ON BAGNASCO-RABBIS SELL OUT
The news black out continues among Catholics on Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco’s deal with pro homosexuality Rabbis while the Holy Father was in Prague.
Zenit news has reported the event without saying that the President of the Catholic Conference of Italy(CEI) issued a communiqué saying there will be no active attempts to convert Jews.
The communiqué has not been made available even on the website of the CEI however Avvenire , the daily of the CEI reported it prominently.(See earlier posts on the blog eucharistandmission for details).
Cardinal Bagnasco met with Rabbis Segno and Rabbi Laras, both representing the Jewish Left and the homosexuality lobby.
Rabbi Lara is the head of the Rabbinical Assembly, Milan which claims it represents Conservative Jews.
However there is no one central authority among the Jews.Conservative and Orthodox Jews oppose homosexuality and the Jewish Left.
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/03/repost-catholic-news-blackout-on.html
Posts
