The sedevacantists Most Holy Family Monastery still assume that
1.The baptism of desire is not hypothetical and accepted in faith but that it is visible to us in real life.
2.It is not possible for them to accept that a non Catholic could be saved in another religion in invincible ignorance. Since this would contradict Cantate Domino, the dogma on extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
If the baptism of desire was really explicit and physically known to us then it would be an exception to every one needing to be a visible member of the Church as the dogma and other magisterial documents assert.
3. Since implicit salvation is explicit for them, they can allegedly see those saved, Vatican Council II contradicts extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
-Lionel Andrades
Pure
Dishonesty
Subject:
BOD heretic
Dear
Brothers,
Excellent refutation of the "Baptism of desire" heretic, Michael J Cavanaugh. Like all heretics, he simply dismisses the mountains of evidence proving that water baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, and instead opts for an example that is both fictional and impossible. As you, St. Augustine, and Catholic dogma state, God would never allow a good-willed Catechumen to die without being water baptized. The fact is that the BOD heretics would need to admit that if a man can be redeemed without the Sacrament of water baptism, then so can the Devil be redeemed, since to deny the absolute necessity of water baptism and membership in the Catholic Church for salvation, is to deny the whole point of the Incarnation and Jesus Christ's suffering, Crucifixion and Resurrection. Just as it is impossible for a man to be redeemed without the Sacrament of water baptism, so it is impossible for the Devil to be redeemed.
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Session 11, Feb. 4, 1442, ex cathedra: “Regarding children, indeed, because of danger of death, which can often take place, when no help can be brought to them by another remedy than through the sacrament of baptism, through which they are snatched from the domination of the Devil [original sin] and adopted among the sons of God, it advises that holy baptism ought not be deferred for forty or eighty days, or any time according to the observance of certain people…” (Denz. 712)
God Bless,
Chris & Jaclyn White
Excellent refutation of the "Baptism of desire" heretic, Michael J Cavanaugh. Like all heretics, he simply dismisses the mountains of evidence proving that water baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, and instead opts for an example that is both fictional and impossible. As you, St. Augustine, and Catholic dogma state, God would never allow a good-willed Catechumen to die without being water baptized. The fact is that the BOD heretics would need to admit that if a man can be redeemed without the Sacrament of water baptism, then so can the Devil be redeemed, since to deny the absolute necessity of water baptism and membership in the Catholic Church for salvation, is to deny the whole point of the Incarnation and Jesus Christ's suffering, Crucifixion and Resurrection. Just as it is impossible for a man to be redeemed without the Sacrament of water baptism, so it is impossible for the Devil to be redeemed.
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Session 11, Feb. 4, 1442, ex cathedra: “Regarding children, indeed, because of danger of death, which can often take place, when no help can be brought to them by another remedy than through the sacrament of baptism, through which they are snatched from the domination of the Devil [original sin] and adopted among the sons of God, it advises that holy baptism ought not be deferred for forty or eighty days, or any time according to the observance of certain people…” (Denz. 712)
God Bless,
Chris & Jaclyn White
MHFM:
Thanks. He’s just a purely evil individual. We had some more exchanges with him in which
he not only spews heretical lies, but attempts, in the face of documentation, to
deny that the priests he supports believe that non-Catholics can be saved. These people are so dishonest that they not
only commit mortal sin by falsely asserting that their heretical priests, etc.
do not believe souls can be saved in false religions, but they do so while holding the position
themselves. In other words, they
act as if it’s unthinkable that anyone could possibly believe that
heresy when they believe it
themselves! The reason they act in this
fashion is they are ashamed to admit what they really believe (for they realize
it flies in the face of defined dogma), so they simply lie and pretend that they
and others don’t actually believe what we know they believe and teach. If we did not see this type of dishonesty so
frequently in dealing with divers heretics, we would
find it mind-boggling; but it’s actually typical among salvation heretics.
For
example, here are a few more exchanges with the
heretic.
[HIS
RESPONSE]
Brothers
read this and weep. Here is a true theologian. [He promotes the pathetic arguments of the
deceased Fr. Martin Stepanich; and while defending
heretics such as Dolan and Sanborn, he also recognizes as Catholic the heretic
Droleskey.
See our recent video on Stepanich, in which we cover his heresy and lies: Priest Dies and
Goes to Hell
[video].]
Your
venomous mouth is from Satan and your eyes blind to the truth like the
Pharisees. You accuse me of being of bad will but you exercise it… You totally
misrepresent the Council of Trent which clearly recognizes baptism of desire and
baptism of blood….I will accept the true teaching of the Church whatever it is.
Unfortunately we do not have a Church now to directly refute your heresy but we
do have St Alphonsus, St Thomas Aquinas and Church
doctrine to give the lie to your heresies.
Where
do you get the crazy idea that myself or the others
mentioned hold that a person who doesn't believe in Christ and would reject
Him can get to heaven? It is just the
opposite.
Only those who love Christ and desire baptism would be afforded baptism through
the mercy of God only because water baptism was not available to them. Yes it is
absolutely necessary to have faith in Christ and the Trinity. Your assertion
that God would not allow a situation to arise as I portrayed is ridiculous. It
has happened to many canonized saints as you must be
aware.
Michael
J. Cavanaugh
MHFM
RESPONSE- This shows
how completely blind you are. It's a
documented fact that Stepanich, Droleskey, Sanborn, Dolan, etc. all hold that souls can be
saved in false religions and without faith in Christ, even for those who reject
Him. We've documented this in writing
and in videos. You defend that heresy by
promoting such evil unbelievers. Here's
a little table about how the aforementioned individuals agree with Fr. Denis
Fahey, who taught that Jews who reject Christ can be in the state of grace and
saved. Do you condemn Fahey's statement here as
heretical, in which he says a Jew who rejects Christ can be in the state of
grace? [All of your false claims about BOD have already been refuted, by
the way.]
Fr.
Denis Fahey, The Kingship of Christ and the Conversion of the Jewish Nation
(1953), p. 52: “The Jews,
as a nation, are objectively aiming at giving society a direction which is in
complete opposition to the order God wants. It is possible that a member
of the Jewish Nation, who rejects Our Lord, may have the supernatural life which
God wishes to see in every soul, and so be good with the goodness God
wants, but objectively, the direction he is seeking to give to the world is
opposed to God and to that life, and therefore is not good. If a Jew who
rejects our Lord is good in the way God demands, it is in spite of the
movement in which he and his nation are
engaged.”
The
Catholic Church, Pope Eugene IV, The Council of Florence, Jesus Christ, St. John
and St. Peter
Pope
Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate
Domino,” 1441, ex
cathedra: “The Holy
Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those
who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or
heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life
and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his
angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their
lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance
that only for those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to
salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the
Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he
has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ,
unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”
(Denz. 714)
Pope
Eugene IV, Council of Florence, 1441,
ex cathedra:“The
Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and teaches that the matter
pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, the Mosaic law, which are divided
into ceremonies, sacred rites, sacrifices, and sacraments,
because
they were established to signify
something in the future, although they were suited to the divine worship at that
time, after our Lord’s coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New
Testament began; and that whoever, even
after the passion, placed hope in these matters of the law and submitted himself
to them as necessary for salvation, as if faith in Christ could not save without
them, sinned mortally. Yet it does
not deny that after the passion of Christ up to the promulgation of the Gospel
they could have been observed until they were believed to be in no way necessary
for salvation; but after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed
without the loss of eternal salvation.
All, therefore, who after that
time [the promulgation of the Gospel] observe circumcision and the Sabbath and
the other requirements of the law, the holy Roman Church declares alien to the
Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal
salvation.”
(Denz. 712)
1
John 5:11-12: “And this is the testimony, that God hath given to us eternal
life. And this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son, hath life. He
that hath not the Son, hath not
life.”
“For
God so loved the world, as to give His only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in Him,
may not perish, but may have life everlasting.” (John
3:16)
“He
that believeth in the Son hath life everlasting: but he that believeth not
the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God
abideth on him.” (John
3:36)
To assert that one can attain salvation
while rejecting Jesus Christ is to disbelieve in the Gospel and to fail to
understand its core message.
“Now
this is life everlasting, that they may know thee, the only true God, and
Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John
17:3)
“And
he said to them [the Jews]: You are from beneath, I am from above. You are of this world, I am not of this world. Therefore, I said to you, that you shall die
in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your
sin.” (John 8:23-24)
“Amen,
Amen, I say to you: he that entereth not by the
door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up another way,
the same is a thief and a robber… I am the door.” (John 10:1,
9)
“Jesus
saith to them: I am the way, and the truth, and the
life. No man cometh to the Father,
but by me.” (John 14:6)
“… the name of Our
Lord Jesus Christ… Nor is there
salvation in any other. For there is
no other name, under heaven, given to men, whereby we must be saved.” (Acts
4:12).
|
Fr.
Fahey, Bishops Dolan, McKenna, Sanborn, Fr. Cekada,
Tom Droleskey and countless
others
Fr.
Denis Fahey, The Kingship of Christ and the Conversion of the Jewish Nation
(1953), p. 52: “The Jews,
as a nation, are objectively aiming at giving society a direction which is in
complete opposition to the order God wants.
It is possible that a member of the Jewish Nation, who rejects Our
Lord, may have the supernatural life which God wishes to see in every
soul, and so be good with the goodness God wants, but objectively, the
direction he is seeking to give to the world is opposed to God and to that life,
and therefore is not good. If a Jew who rejects our Lord is good in the way
God demands, it is in spite of the movement in which he and his nation are
engaged.”
Tom
Droleskey: “It is, therefore, a little presumptuous to
conclude that men who were never once censured during their lives are in error
while the man who was called to the Holy Office of the Inquistion (and refused to go after repeated requests) is
considered to have had the sole and correct interpretation of the doctrine of
Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus. Bishops
Dolan, Sanborn, Pivarunas, Kelly, and McKenna, each
of whom is teaching the Catholic doctrine that was taught by Fathers McNabb and
Fahey without being censured, are great champions of the Faith in this
era of conciliar apostasy and betrayal.”
Bishop
Robert McKenna, to MHFM, Nov. 25, 2004: “2. I answer your ‘one simple question’
regarding Fr. Denis Fahey’s saying, ‘The Jews, as a nation, are objectively
aiming at giving society a direction which is in complete opposition to the
order God wants. It is possible that
a member of the Jewish Nation, who rejects Our Lord, may have the supernatural
life which God wishes to see in every soul, and so be good with the goodness
God wants, but objectively, the direction he is seeking to give to the world is
opposed to God and to that life, and therefore is not good. If a Jew who rejects
our Lord is good in the way God demands, it is in spite of the movement in which
he and his nation are engaged.’ Fr.
Fahey in these words is in fact recognizing Baptism of Desire… I could not agree more with what Fr. Fahey
says…”
Bishop
Donald Sanborn: “Vatican II’s idea of the Church is heretical, since it
identifies organized religions of pagans and idolaters with the Mystical Body of
Christ. The truth is that in no way are
pagans and idolaters, as pagans and
idolaters, united to the Mystical Body of Christ. If, by some mystery of Providence and
Predestination, they [pagans and idolaters] are united to the soul of the
Church, and by desire to its body, it is in spite of their paganism and
idolatry. It is due to an
invincible ignorance of their error.”
|
CAVANAUGH-
Brothers
I believe in everything the Council of Florence promulgated. What Sanborn and others say is that God
in His mercy at His own will may choose to save some otherwise lost. A good
example is the totally inexplicable deathbed conversion of Dutch
Schultz, the notorious Jewish gangster. In a deep coma he was recorded relaying
a debate between the devil and the Virgin over his soul. Upon waking up he asked
for a priest and was baptized and died...
…
my initial question [about ‘baptism of blood’]. 'You
stated that God would never put a person in that situation and cited St AugustIne and others to that
effect. This is contrary to historical fact. It is precisely because of and
through the action of baptism of blood and desire that we see the Good Shepherd
taking care of His own and thwarting the efforts of the
Evil One to snatch away His lambs. There is no salvation outside the Catholic
Church but God is not denying entrance to those who love Him and seek entrance
but who through no fault of their own can not be
baptized with water... I googled and found many saints
who were canonized after being martyred without being baptized with
water…
Michael
J. Cavanaugh
MHFM
RESPONSE:
[NOTICE
how the liar 1) doesn’t answer the question about Fahey’s statement and 2)
demonically lies by falsely asserting that he and the other heretics only
believe that people can convert, not that people can be saved in non-Catholic
religions! This is truly outrageous
dishonesty [SEE THE TABLE ABOVE and the
video: Sedevacantist
priests deny Catholic salvation dogma
for
the proof that those heretics do believe souls can be saved in false religions,
without faith in Christ, etc.]
Heretics
like Cavanaugh have no shame to lie, and in the process they only pile damnation
on themselves. They won’t escape before
the Judgment Seat of Christ. This
applies to ALL OF YOU in the ‘traditionalist’ movement who
accept such heretics and/or lie by falsely pretending that you and those
heretics don’t believe souls can be saved without the Catholic faith. You won’t escape before the Judgment Seat of
Christ. Don’t think for one second that
you are a Catholic or that you accept the Gospel! You don’t.]
You
are a total liar, and your latest e-mail only further confirms it. You refuse to condemn Fahey's statement that
Jews who reject Christ can be in the state of grace because you hold that
heresy. You then commit MORTAL SIN
by falsely saying that Sanborn, etc. don't believe non-Catholics can be
saved. In case you attempt to ignore the
commandment in that regard, we remind you that it’s a mortal sin to lie in that
way. You are satanic.
Sanborn,
etc. weren't talking about people who convert.
Everyone agrees that people can convert, accept Christ and be
baptized. They specifically refer to
people who are in 'ignorance' of Christ, or who reject Him, or who belong to
a false religion! You are a complete
liar. Moreover, as we've pointed out
before, the Church has never taught that saints died without baptism. That was the theological conclusion of
certain historical writers, and it was never taught by the Magisterium. Your argument is worthless. [Indeed, all the
objections you bring up concerning BOD, etc. have already been completely
refuted.] The infallible teaching of the
Church, which is what binds, teaches that no man gets to Heaven without the
Sacrament of Baptism. The Church teaches
that no man is saved without the rebirth of WATER AND THE SPIRIT (John
3:5). That’s a dogma. You obstinately reject it and you are not a
Catholic. Your failure to condemn
Fahey's statement as a heretical rejection of dogma is all one needs to
know. [By the way, there’s even more
documentation than what’s covered above to refute your false claim that they
don’t believe souls can be saved without the Catholic
faith.]http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/E-Exchanges.php