Sunday, May 24, 2015

Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary liberalism: same as Cardinal Walter Kaspar

Sisters, Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary
When the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary (MICM) say that the baptism of desire must be followed by the baptism of water, they need to clarify that these are hypothetical  cases, accepted in theory.They are not explicit cases in the present times ( May 2015).
So these cases are not relevant to the dogma, in the sense, that every one needs to be a formal member of the Church ( with faith and baptism) today and there are no known cases of any one saved with the baptism of desire, followed by the baptism of water.
We cannot make a link between the two.
If we make the link we create liberal theology.
So it can only be said that someone can be saved with the baptism of desire, followed by perfect charity and the baptism of water, and every one needs to be a formal member of the Catholic Church with no exceptions, today.
The MICM may mean well, but unknowingly have complicated the issue when they assume that Lumen Gentium 16 ( saved in invincible ignorance) is an exception to the dogma. Instead they could say that LG 16, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2, AG 11( seeds of the Word) etc refer to cases saved with the baptism of water.So they are not explicit exceptions to the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
In this way Vatican Council II (AG 7,LG 14) would support the dogma according to Fr.Leonard Feeney and LG 16 etc would not be exceptions.Vatican Council II would not contradict the Syllabus of Errors.So the MICM could announce that they accept Vatican Council II  with an ecclesiology which is ecclesiocentric and traditional.
Presently, they affirm the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and interpret Vatican Council II as a break with the dogma.This is liberalism.
Their position is the same as Cardinal Walter Kaspar who says the Council is ambiguous and a break with Tradition and he accepts the Council.
The MICM has informed the Vatican that they accept Vatican Council II.While they also say that the Council is a break with Tradition and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Cardinal Kaspar and the MICM are using the same new theology which comes from Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani's mistake.
They need to identify the mistake, avoid it and re-interpret all magisterial documents without Marchetti's irrational premise and inference.
Cardinal Kaspar accepts Vatican Council II and so the MICM.
He says Vatican Council II is a break with the past and so the MICM.
He does not know that he is using Apparition Theology, Marchetti's theology, which makes Vatican Council II a break with the past,and it seems neither do the MICM.
-Lionel Andrades

Compartmentalise your thinking on the baptism of desire and blood with the dogma

Can you look at this issue without the models used by the SSPX and the MICM ?

CM,SSPX,MICM deny the Faith to please superiors

The first community of Christians were Catholics. They were the Early Catholic Church.

  • What about Mary, Joseph, John the Baptist, his parents and the whole extended family? Not only were they not Catholics, they were not even Christians. They were born Jews, lived as Jews and died Jews.
  • Lionel:
    The Catholic Church began with Jesus who founded a Church. It continued with the Apostles and the Early Church to the present times. The doctrines of the Church are still the same. The first community of Christians were Catholics. They were the Early Catholic Church.
    St.Peter was a Jew and also a Catholic. Our Lady and St.Joseph were also Catholic. John the Baptist was the prophet preparing the way for Jesus and His Mystical Body the Catholic Church.We cannot separate him from Christ.-Lionel Andrades

    There is one Creator and not two. We all have the same Creator. However Hell exists.

    It mentions Creator and God regarding their salvation and judgement, which incidentally, is all perfectly fine for them.

    There is one Creator and not two. We all have the same Cretaor.
    However Hell exists.
    Muslims are on the way to Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church ( Nostra Aetate, Ad Gentes etc)

    Like I said, I agree fully with your last paragragh, but would add the caveat; when they convert into the Catholic Church, they will be denouncing and leaving the god of islam behind.

    Yes when they are in Heaven they would be Catholic.There are only Catholics in Heaven.
    -Lionel Andrades



    Didn't Jesus teach about hell?

    Preached graphic depictions of hell

    Everyone knows that “fire and brimstone” preaching is ineffective and, in any case, antithetical to the spirit of the Gospel of love, right?

    Then why did Jesus preach about hell so much?

    Jesus gave horrifying descriptions of the place. Throughout the Gospels we find that Jesus describes hell as a place of “weeping and gnashing of teeth,” a place where “the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched,” a “blazing furnace,” “darkness,” “unquenchable fire,” and “the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” (Several of these descriptions he repeats several times.)

    And he constantly warns people from doing things that would get them sent there. So maybe preaching about hell isn’t so bad?
    from Spirit Daily


    It contains in it, after the Preparatory Prayer and two Preludes, five Points and one Colloquy:
    Prayer. Let the Preparatory Prayer be the usual one.
    First Prelude. The first Prelude is the composition, which is here to see with the sight of the imagination the length, breadth and depth of Hell.
    Second Prelude. The second, to ask for what I want: it will be here to ask for interior sense of the pain which the damned suffer, in order that, if, through my faults, I should forget the love of the Eternal Lord, at least the fear of the pains may help me not to come into sin.
    First Point. The first Point will be to see with the sight of the imagination the great fires, and the souls as in bodies of fire.
    Second Point. The second, to hear with the ears wailings, howlings, cries, blasphemies against Christ our Lord and against all His Saints.
    Third Point. The third, to smell with the smell smoke, sulphur, dregs and putrid things.
    Fourth Point. The fourth, to taste with the taste bitter things, like tears, sadness and the worm of conscience.
    Fifth Point. The fifth, to touch with the touch; that is to say, how the fires touch and burn the souls.
    Colloquy. Making a Colloquy to Christ our Lord, I will bring to memory the souls that are in Hell, some because they did not believe the Coming, others because, believing, they did not act according to His Commandments; making three divisions...
    - The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola, [1914]


    A young Korean artist taken to Hell. Drew pictures of it.
    The entrance it seems to me was similar to a very long and narrow alleyway, like an oven, low and dark and confined; the floor seemed to me to consist of dirty, muddy water emitting foul stench and swarming with putrid vermin...The bodily pains were so unbearable that though I had suffered excruciating ones in this life and according to what doctors say, the worst that can be suffered on earth for all my nerves were shrunken when I was paralyzed, plus many other sufferings of many kinds that I endured and even some as I said, caused by the devil, these were all nothing in comparison with the ones I experienced there...-St.Teresa of Avila's description of Hell.


    These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings.

    There are special Tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings related to the manner in which it has sinned.
    I would have died
    There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me...-St.Faustina Kowalska's description of Hell.

    "Then I was pushed into one of those fiery cavities and pressed, as it were, between burning planks, and sharp nails and red-hot irons seemed to be piercing my flesh."

    Here Josefa repeated the multiple tortures from which no single member of the body is excluded:

    "I felt as if they were endeavoring to pull out my tongue, but could not. This torture reduced me to such agony that my very eyes seemed to be starting out of their sockets. I think this was because of the fire which burns, burns... not a finger-nail escapes terrifying torments, and all the time one cannot move even a finger to gain some relief, nor change posture, for the body seems flattened out and yet doubled in two.- Sr.Joseph Menendez's description of Hell.
    There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day. And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores,
    Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man' s table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham' s bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell. And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom: And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame. And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented.

    And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither. And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father' s house, for I have five brethren, That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments. And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance.
    And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead. -Luke :19-31, The Rich Man (Dives) and Lazarus.
    Second Circle (Lust)

    Gianciotto Discovers Paolo and Francesca
    In the second circle of Hell are those overcome by lust. Dante condemns these "carnal malefactors"[ for letting their appetites sway their reason. They are the first ones to be truly punished in Hell. These souls are blown back and forth by the terrible winds of a violent storm, without rest. This symbolizes the power of lust to blow one about needlessly and aimlessly.
    In this circle, Dante sees
    Semiramis, Dido, Cleopatra, Helen of Troy, Achilles, Paris, Tristan, and many others who were overcome by sexual love during their life. Dante is told by Francesca da Rimini how she and her husband's brother Paolo Malatesta committed adultery, but then died a violent death, in the name of Love, at the hands of her husband, Giovanni (Gianciotto). Francesca reports that their act of adultery was triggered by reading the adulterous story of Lancelot and Guinevere (an episode sculpted by Auguste Rodin in The Kiss). Nevertheless, she predicts that her husband will be punished for his fratricide in Caïna, within the ninth circle (Canto V).
    Alse see Dante's experience in Hell in The Divine Comedy( Inferno)._______________________________________