Tuesday, May 7, 2013

Archbishop Augustine Di Noia, Christopher Ferrara and Jeff Mirus assume there is a type of salvation visible to us :misinterpret Vatican Council II

For them Vatican Council II refers to visible exceptions to the dogma on salvation and Ad Gentes 7 (all need faith and baptism)
Christopher Ferrera has written an article in the Remnant in which he criticizes Jeff Mirus for being vague about Vatican Council II. (1)
Jeff Mirus in many reports has assumed that Lumen Gentium 16 (invincible ignorance) etc are exceptions to the traditional teaching on other religions and Christian communities.So he praised Pope Francis when he said that Vatican Council II is a beautiful work of the Holy Spirit. It is beautiful for Mirus since it is a break with the past .It is a break with the past since he assumes that there is a type of salvation mentioned in Vatican Council II which is visible to the naked eye.We know these exceptions.So every one does not need to convert into the church.This was was taught in the past only for him.Pre Vatican Council II times.
Christopher Ferrara also assumes the same.Just like Jeff Mirus. If he did not he would be praising Vatican Council II as dogmatic and affirming extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was known for centuries.Vatican Council II would be traditional for him.
Instead we have a report by Christopher Ferrara in which he is as vague as Mirus since he does not seem aware of the common error. The error of the dead man walking who is visible to us and is an exception to Tradition.
So he goes on with the usual Vatican Council II not being a doctrinal Council but a pastoral one.It did not teach anything knew. While the liberals, like the Vice President of Ecclesia Dei  say that the documents of Vatican Council II refer to the Dogmatic....etc.The Archbishop at Ecclesia Dei in an interview with the National Catholic Register's Edward Pentin,  when asked about extra ecclesiam nulla salus, said Lumen Gentium 8 (elements of sanctification) was an exception. Archbishop Augustine Di Noia can supposedly see people dead and saved with elements of sanctification, which make the Council a break with Tradition, as it does with Mirus and Ferrara.
-Lionel Andrades
1.
Less Than Zero A Reply to the Prophet Mirus

Robert Sungenis' talks on salvation have become obsolete

If God is fair how can he condemn someone who has never heard of the Church (2:16) asks Robert Sungenis.(Part 3 of 6: Is there salvation outside the Church    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0v0ZYIqnhk&feature=share&list=PL15FF976BACBB5149 ).
No he will not! But we cannot assume that we know these cases. These cases are known only to God. So those who are saved in invincible ignorance are not an exceptions to the dogma.

Those who are saved with a good conscience similarly are known only to God. So we still have the traditional teaching that all need faith and baptism for salvation because of Original Sin and there are no known exceptionsA good conscience and invincible ignorance are not one of them.

This question came up with Pope Pius IX (2:32) . And in his two encyclicals he did not state that there were visible implicit desire cases or that we personally knew persons saved in invincible ignorance who were exceptions to the dogma.

Someone who has not heard of the Catholic Church (3:09).Pope Pius IX said that these cases were visible and so an exception to Pope Eugene and the defined dogma on salvation ? Or did Pope Pius IX state that these cases were invisible but possible and so he did not mention them being exceptions to the dogma ? We have to  reason here. If we are rational we know that Pope Pius IX mentioned these cases as possibilities. Not exceptions.

What were Eugene IV and Boniface VIII talking about when they said extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?,asks Sungenis. The text of the dogma is there to read. It does not mention any exceptions. It does not mention invincible ignorance or implicit desire. Why should it? It is not relevant.We cannot name any such exception.

Pope Boniface issued this dictum outside the Church there is no salvation. Basically what he is saying that if you know that the Catholic Church claims to be the one true church and you deliberately say I am not going to join the Catholic Church because I have my own religion then you are condemned says Robert Sungenis. Yes those who know and do not enter will be condemned and these cases are not known to us. So they are irrelevant to the dogma which does not say only those who know will be condemned. The dogma refers to all non Catholics. Those who know and do not know will be known and judged by God only.-Lionel Andrades

EVANGELIZE, EVANGELIZE! IF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES CAN GO DOOR TO DOOR, WHAT ABOUT US CATHOLICS?

EVANGELIZE, EVANGELIZE! IF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES CAN GO DOOR TO DOOR, WHAT ABOUT US CATHOLICS?

from Spirit Daily http://www.spiritdaily.com/evangelize.htm

On occasion we hear the admonition from Rome or the local pulpit: evangelize. Go forth and speak of Catholicism. Spread authentic Christianity!

We hear that good notion (part of Christ's own admonition) but usually with little advice on how to do it [this was written before the Pope's recent remarks].
Yet, ways there are.

The most basic: go to homes; door to door; visit people in your community; show them what Catholics look like and act like and believe like, as opposed to the conceptions they may have from the media.

If Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons can do it -- if evangelicals can, with substantial results -- why can't the world's oldest and most authentic form of Christianity?

Spreading the Word seems daunting but is easy once the ice is broken and brings much joy and grace. At the least, we may pull back some lapsed Catholics. There are dozens of millions of them!

And with the new Pope and his populous appeal, they may listen.

Hand or leave folks a holy card; Saint Jude may be a great way to start. Let them know about saints and healing; leave one of the Blessed Mother.

Unafraid to proclaim their beliefs (which are far more controversial than any Catholic ones), Jehovah's Witnesses often fill up new "Kingdom" halls due to just such boldness in evangelization. And too often, their converts were born Catholic. Meanwhile, Mormons purvey beliefs -- often with similar success -- that hinge on some radical mystical ideas.

So what are we Catholics afraid of? The Legion of Mary has been doing this -- personal evangelization -- for years (working in pairs).
Say a Rosary each day on what you can do and how you can do it and if not handing out cards or directly evangelizing, what about a bumper-sticker, or putting one of the fish symbols on your car?

Mary wasn't afraid. Joseph wasn't afraid. Jesus certainly wasn't afraid. Look at where the Apostles journeyed (and the amazing fruits).

We have to pull lapsed Catholics back. We have to reach out to Episcopalians -- who are especially inclined to convert. We need to let Protestants in on the original Church, the one that's 2,000 years old, the one that compiled the New Testament, the one that's fifteen centuries older than the Reformation.

It's time to get out there. It's time to spread the word at soup kitchens. It's time to let it all hang out. It's not enough to just talk or pray about it! It's time to bring people back! Francis himself said so the other day. "During his daily morning Mass today, Pope Francis reflected on the duty of all Christians to pass on the faith," reported Zenit News on May 3. "The Holy Father went on to say that Christ asks of us the courage to not only proclaim His Resurrection, but also the courage to pray and ask Christ when we are in need. 'We must have the courage to go to Jesus and ask Him: 'But you said this, do it! Make the faith grow, make evangelization move forward, help me to solve this problem,' the Pope said. 'Do we have this courage in prayer? Or do we pray a little, when we can, spending a bit' of time in prayer? But that courage, that parresia (boldness) even in prayer.' The Church, he said, 'must be courageous!'”
Just do something Catholic. Buy books for prisoners. Say a Rosary as you walk. Let folks see the dangling beads. Send a novena to someone who's young. Go to a college! Have a garden statue that passersby can see. Bless your neighborhood (sprinkle blessed salt as you walk).

Yes, of course, there is always resistance. Yes, of course, there will be rudeness -- a bit. Maybe.

But the effect of that quickly vanishes and most will listen and the grace from a single conversion or reversion outweighs any rudeness, any resistance, and any heresy. This is the month of Mary, of Fatima. What better month to start?

Archdiocese of St. Louis promotes door-to-door evangelization

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=17735

“You cannot find Jesus outside the Church ...The Catholic Church is the means for finding Jesus Christ and incorporating us into Him....You can easily imagine St.Peter saying there is no finding Jesus outside the Church - that it is impossible.-Michael Voris

“You cannot find Jesus outside the Church ...The Catholic Church is the means for finding Jesus Christ and incorporating us into Him....You can easily imagine St.Peter saying there is no finding Jesus outside the Church - that it is impossible.-Michael Voris
Video: Pope Francis -BAM !

Richard Cushing Error runs through Sungenis' talks

"You don't receive the water you can't be saved? Is that what Jesus is saying? No." says Robert Sungenis (0.58 Pt4 of 6: Is There Salvation Outside of the Church?- Sungenis http://youtu.be/45foZDKg7PI  )

This is confusion.Jesus is saying, for Robert Sungenis, that every one in 2013 does not need to receive the baptism of water for salvation? Defacto every one in the present times does!(John 3:5).There are no known exceptions. Sungenis does not know a single person who is an exception. He cannot name any exception in the present times.

(0.09) 'Or the desire of'. Yes a person can be saved with implicit desire but since we do not know these cases in the present times, this is irrelevant to the dogma outside the church there is no salvation or the need for the baptism of water for all (John 3.5,Mark 16:16).

'So that puts a whole different twist on it, doesn't it ?' (2.25) says Robert Sungenis. No it does not! It puts a whole different twist on it only if  implicit desire is explicit for us humans.Since implicit desire is known only to God it is not an exception to the dogma on salvation.This is ambiguity, uncalled for.

"We are into a whole new realm here" (3:37). Yes he is about to assume that implicit desire is explicit and so is an exception to the dogma and thus there is a new doctrine.A whole new realm.

"Enter a new term into the formula" (3:50). Exactly! A new term into the formula and one which is irrational.Explicit- implicit desire is a new term and idea.An American one, from Boston.

(5:27) If one is justified or saved it is only known to God. So how is this relevant to the dogma?

(7.17) The Council of Trent on that word desire. The Council of Trent only mentions the possibility of a person being saved with implcit desire. It does not state that these cases are visible to us or that they are relevant or an exception to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.

(7.40) Pope Pius IX never said that implicit desire was explicit for us and so an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

It is because of this error of Cardinal Richard Cushing that Robert Sungenis and so many apologists (Patrick Madrid etc) assume that Vatican Council II is a break with the past and contradicts the traditional teaching on other religions and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

There is no anbiguity in the Council but this ambiguity is created, perhaps unintentionally by liberals and traditionalists when they assume that there is visible implicit desire, that we can actually see the dead saved with implicit desire who are exceptions to the dogma on salvation.
This is the false charge made against Fr.Leonard Feeney. How could the Jesuit priest from Boston be faulted for not denying that there are no exceptions to the dogma and that implicit desire and invincible ignorance are not exceptions ?

The Letter of the Holy Office nor Vatican Council II state that implicit desire is visible to us in the present times or is an exception to the traditional teaching on salvation.This is a common error supported by the media.
-Lionel Andrades

Robert Sungenis has an irrational,non traditional, liberal position position on other religions and ecumenism in Vatican Council II with reference to salvation

Robert Sungenis crisis