Friday, July 27, 2012

SSPX MUST ASK THE VATICAN TO MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT

Once the announcement is made every one will realize that we can all, SSPX and non SSPX, hold the traditional, rational interpretation of Vatican Council II.
On the blog THE BLOGGER PRIEST Fr. Joe Jenkins (1) is not admitting that we do not know people dead and saved in Heaven and that we cannot see those saved in invincible ignorance. Perhaps if he admits he agrees with me on this factual observation he thinks  it will contradict some of the teachings of the Church.

Priests do not want to admit the obvious in public and so it is not likely that the Vatican will concede an error.It  is important for the SSPX to ask the Vatican cardinals and bishops if we can see the dead-saved and if they are  explicit exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma on outside the church there is no salvation.
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A journalist could put the question this way.

NCR/ LifeSites (for example):

Your Eminence /Excellency,
Some of the supporters of the SSPX are saying that Vatican Council II is a traditional document with traditional values on other religions, ecumenism and religious liberty. Would you agree?

Bishop Gerhard Muller, Archbishop Augustine Di Noia or Cardinal Kurt Loch could respond: No.It is not.

Catholic National Register or Life Sites.com: Thy say an error was made in the Fr.Leonard Feeney case which has influenced our interpretation of Vatican Council II.

Vatican Curia: What is the error specifically?

NCR/Life Sites: That we don’t know the dead saved in invincible ignorance and implicit desire. Since we do not know these cases they are not explicit exceptions to the actual interpretation of the dogma. They are irrelevant to the dogma.

Vatican Curia: So what has this to do with Vatican Council II?

Journalist: So those saved in invincible ignorance or a good conscience (Lumen Gentium 16), elements of sanctification (Lumen Gentium 8), seeds of the Word are not explicit exceptions to the dogma outside the church no salvation.

You would agree that we do not know these cases?

Vatican Curia: Yes.

Journalist: So could the Vatican make an announcement that we do know these cases of the dead-saved. Vatican Council II does not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.


Vatican Curia: Yes. It is an objective fact. It cannot be denied.

Journalist: So once the announcement is made every one will realize that we can all, SSPX and non SSPX, hold the traditional, rational interpretation f Vatican Council II?

Vatican Curia:Yes. Honesty demands it.
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This single interpretation of Vatican Council II will be difficult for many to accept. Fr. Jenkns has even deleted the quotation from Ad Gentes 7.(2)
-Lionl Andrades

1.
http://bloggerpriest.com/2012/07/19/dim-prospects-for-the-society-of-pius-x/

2.
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.-Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II

THEOLOGIANS IN THE VATICAN-SSPX TALKS WERE USING THE VISIBLE TO US BAPTISM OF DESIRE AND BOTH SIDES DID NOT KNOW IT: NEITHER DOES BISHOP RICHARD WILLIAMSON RECOGNIZE IT NOW

On the video SSPX Archbishop Lefebvre & Rome 4 Bishop Richard Williamson of the Society of St.Pius X( SSPX) mentions speaking to an SSPX theologian who participated in the Vatican-SSPX talks in which there were four theologians from both sides who met and heard each other out.

The SSPX theologian I realize did not know that that there was one single source for the Vatican (Ladaria-Morerod) error.If he knew the error he would have corrected the Vatican side in public.

The SSPX now realizes it . So in their communique (July 19,2012) it is said 'the Roman Catholic Church, the only Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ, outside of which there is no salvation and no possibility of finding the means that lead to it''

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If they knew the Vatican error at the time of the SSPX-Vatican talks the conversation would be like this:

SSPX: What is the basis for your 'theology of relgions' and ' ecclesiology of communion'.

Ladaria-Morerod (Vatican side) : There is theological basis in Vatican Council II.

SSPX: Could you identify it?

Ladaria-Morerod: Also the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 rejected the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney and his non acceptance of the baptism of desire.

SSPX: For centuries the Church taught that there was exclusive salvation in only the Catholic Church.Now it has been changed?

Ladaria-Morerod : Yes. The change came in the Fr.Leonard Feeney case and it was accepted by Vatican Council II.

SSPX: We think there is no theological basis for what you say since the baptism of desire is not  visible, it is not known to us , so it cannot be an exception to Fr.Leonard Feeney and the literal interpretation of the dogma. It is irrelevant to the literal interpretation.

Can you name anyone saved with the baptism of desire or a good conscience?

Since Lumen Gentium 16 is implicit it is not an explicit exception to the dogma.So there is nothing in Vatican Council II to contradict the dogma.

You do not have any theological basis for the 'theology of religions' and 'the ecclesiology of communion'.

Instead Vatican Council II supports the dogma and Fr.Leonard Feeney when it states in Ad Gentes 7 that all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.
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Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J  and Bishop Charles Morerod O.P have expressed these errors 'in writing' in  two of the theological papers of the International Theological Commission. The SSPX should have corrected them in 1997 . 

Now Bishop Williamson says Vatican Council II is a modernist document . True, when you are using a modernist error.If he identifies the error  like the SSPX did at its last chapter, Vatican Council II becomes a traditional document.

Vatican Council II  affirms the literal interpretation of the dogma ouside the church no salvation. Ad Gentes 7 does not contradict it with Lumen Gentium  16  etc. Nostra Aetate 4 says Catholics are the new People of God. Catholics are the Chosen People of God and outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation (Vatican Council II).
 
Bishop Williamson says the present issue is a doctrinal one and he does not know how it is going to be solved. He can help by identifying the error of the visible to us dead who are now in Heaven with the baptism of desire.-Lionel Andrades