Saturday, March 31, 2012

Cardinal Luis Ladaria S.J Secretary Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith does away with the defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, Limbo and Original Sin in the International Theological Commission position papers: CDF expects the Society of St.Pius X to accept all this

The International Theological Commission (ITC) has done away with the centuries-old literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. The ITC  places invincible ignorance as an explicit exception to the dogma. The  passage quoted does not say that it is an explicit exception to the dogma or that these cases are known to us but ITC assumes that it refers to an exception to the dogma. (1)

Then the ITC says that the Church is only necessary for those who believe and know about Jesus (LG 14) and not for all people. The dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II says all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation. The ITC says only those who know.(2)

The ITC assumes that those who are in invincible ignorance and who can be saved ‘in certain circumstances’(Letter of the Holy Office 1949) are known to the ITC firstly, for them to be an exception to the dogma. Secondly the ITC is sure that these few cases could not receive the baptism of desire or that God could not send a preacher to them as St.Thomas Aquinas taught.The ITC assumes that they are taken up to Heaven without the baptism of water and so they are saved with Original Sin on their soul and that ITC knows who these cases are. Since ITC knows who is in invincible ignorance and saved on earth they probably assume that we know who knows about Jesus and the Church are saved ( even if they they have committed mortal sins we do not know about).

So  Cardinal Luis Ladaria S.J (3) assumes that they are saved without the baptism of water and the ITC also knows who these cases are. So this is a rejection of the need to remove Original Sin in at least these few cases. They are saved without the baptism of water and the ITC knows these particular cases.For the rest of us ordinary Catholics these are hypothetical cases known only to God and the manner in which they are saved are known ONLY to God.

So the ITC has got rid of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, assumed that there are known cases of adults who are saved with Original Sin and without the baptism of water and  since they know these cases saved, without the baptism of water, they assume that all infants can be saved because they are innocent and ignorant. In the final step the ITC issues a theological paper which speculates that there is no Limbo.

All this speculation began with the ITC assuming that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are not known only to God but they are known to us humans. This is irrational. It is also a new teaching.

Here is the process again:

1.There can be non Catholics saved with visible baptism of desire and invincible ignorance and they are known to us as they live now in Heaven. Since we know these specific cases in heaven and on earth, they are exceptions to the dogma outside the church no salvation.

This seems ludicrous but please bear with me. This is serious stuff on a Vatican website.

2.Since there are these known and visible cases of non Catholics saved and known to us in Heaven Cardinal Luis Ladaria assumes that the baptism of water is not needed for all. Since the ITC knows these exceptional cases in particular and knows that they were saved without receiving the baptism of water or being sent a preacher as St.Thomas Aquinas taught.How does the ITC know all this ? I do not know.

3.Since it is possible, and known, that there are these exceptions to all needing to receive the baptism of water to go to Heaven, it is speculated that even infants in ignorance and innocence could be saved without the baptism of water. Since adults who are saved in this manner without the baptism of water are known to members of the ITC.

4.The next step is to do away with Limbo.

Cardinal Luis Ladaria S.J has removed the Church teaching on  extra ecclesiam nulla salus, Original Sin in certain cases, and Limbo. It was all done with  one objective error: the visibly known case of a non Catholic saved with the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance.

 A priest welcomes an end to this teaching on Original Sin.(4)

The ITC position papers have been approved by Pope Benedict XVI and Cardinal William Levada, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.The ITC paper Christianity and World Religions was approved by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger during the pontificate of Pope John Paul II. This paper was corrected in 2001 during the pontificate of Pope John Paul II with the Notification on Fr.Jacques Dupuis S.J which rejected  the Theology of Religions.

ITC's Christianity and World Religions 1997 postulates that a theology of religions is possible. This is suggested  even though the dogma taught exclusive salvation in only the Catholic Church and that all non Catholics are oriented to Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church (5).

The Society of St.Pius X are expected to accept all these heresies in the name of Vatican Council II.Cardinal Luis Ladaria S.J head the Vatican team in failed talks with the SSPX.
-Lionel Andrades

1.

The Allocution of Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quadam (1854) clearly states the issues involved: “It must, of course, be held as a matter of faith that outside the apostolic Roman Church no one can be saved, that the Church is the only ark of salvation, and that whoever does not enter it, will perish in the flood. On the other hand, it must likewise be held as certain that those who live in ignorance of the true religion, if such ignorance be invincible, are not subject to any guilt in this matter before the eyes of the Lord”- 'The Hope of Salvation for Infants who die without being baptized'.(Note: It is assumed here that those saved in invincible ignorance are are explicit exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus).

2.

65. One speaks of the necessity of the Church for salvation in two senses: the necessity of belonging to the Church for those who believe in Jesus and the necessity for salvation of the ministry of the Church which, on mission from God, must be at the service of the coming of the kingdom of God. - Christianity and the World Religions 1997

67. Vatican Council II makes its own the expression extra ecclesiam nulla salus. But in using it the council explicitly directs itself to Catholics and limits its validity to those who know the necessity of the Church for salvation. The council holds that the affirmation is based on the necessity of faith and of baptism affirmed by Christ (LG 14). In this way the council aligned itself in continuity with the teaching of Pius XII, but emphasized more clearly the original parenthentical character of this expression.- Christianity and the World Religions 1997 

3.

The study of the theme "Christianity and the World Religions" was adopted for study by a large majority of the members of the International Theological Commission. To prepare this study a subcommission was established composed of Bishop Norbert Strotmann Hoppe, M.S.C.; Rev. Barthelemy Adoukonou; Rev. Jean Corbon; Rev. Mario de Franca Miranda, S.J.; Rev. Ivan Golub; Rev. Tadahiko Iwashima, S.J.; Rev. Luis F. Ladaria, S.J. (president); Rev. Hermann J. Pottmeyer; and Rev. Andrzej Szostek, M.I.C. General discussion on this theme took place during several meetings of the subcommission and in the plenary sessions of the International Theological Commission held at Rome in 1993, 1994 and 1995. The present text was approved "in forma specifica" by vote of the commission on 30 September 1996 and was submitted to its president, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, who has given his approval for its publication.-Christianity and the World Religions 1997
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_cti_1997_cristianesimo-religioni_en.html4.

4.

Fr. Stephen Freeman Says:
October 31, 2006 at 10:59 am

Roland,

I do indeed think that is what Fr. Breck says in his comments – that the entire forensic metaphor is being shaken. From an Orthodox perspective I think this is good. The forensically imaged doctrine of Original Sin should be reconsidered as inadequate and not sufficiently ground in the Fathers or in Scripture. It’s use of a mistranslation of Romans 5:12 being only one example. Of course, much larger things are at stake. The governing imagery of our salvation. It’s why Orthodox and Roman Catholic can often be far apart. One would assume, that the immaculate conception, argued forensically, would also have to be reexamined. Gets kinda sticky! [...]

5.
THRICE DEFINED DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS

◦“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)

◦“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)

◦“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.) - Catholicism.org
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Nostra Aetate does say that the Church is the' new people of God'. Catholics are the Chosen People.They have the Promised Jewish Messiah, the Eternal Covenant and the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/nostra-aetate-does-say-that-church-is.html#links

The International Theological Commission's position paper Christianity and the World Religions 1997 has an objective factual error and is approved by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger : invincible ignorance is not an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION ASSUMES ‘SEEDS OF THE WORD’ (VATICAN COUNCIL II ) IN OTHER RELIGIONS ARE KNOWN TO US AND THIS IS AN EXPLICIT EXCEPTION TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS


VATICAN'S INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION MAKES AN ERROR IN ITS POSITION PAPER CHRISTIANITY AND THE WORLD RELIGIONS

Mnsgr.Nicola Bux the SSPX in reality accepts Vatican Council II

Monsignor Nicola Bux, consultant to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Office of Liturgical Celebrations of the Pope, addressed an open letter to Bishop Fellay and the priests of the Society of St. Pius X, inviting them to accept an agreement.

He wrote “Perplexities certainly remain, points to be deepened or detailed, such as those regarding ecumenism and inter religious dialogue (which has been, for that matter, already the object of an important clarification given by the declaration Dominus Iesus...’)

We know otherwise. We know the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) is in agreement with Vatican Council II which states all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation. (Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II). So in reality the SSPX agrees with Vatican Council II on ecumenism and inter religious dialogue. All non Catholics need to enter the Church with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation (to avoid Hell).

The issue is does Cardinal Luis Ladaria S.J, Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith accept Ad Gentes 7? Two of the position papers of the International Theological Commission (ITC) which he approved and which carries his name show that he does not. The two papers are The Hope of Salvation for Infants who Die without Baptism and Christianity and the World Religions.

He has another interpretation of Vatican Council II which the SSPX rejects.

The SSPX in reality affirms Vatican Council II according to Tradition and the text of the document. Cardinal Luis Ladaria affirms Vatican Council II with a new doctrine and with no supporting text in Vatican Council II. The proof is there in the  two position papers of the ITC.

Cardinal Luis Ladaria assumes that those saved in invincible ignorance and with the baptism of desire are known to us in reality and so are exceptions to Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II. So for him all non Catholics do not have to enter the Church and those in invincible ignorance etc are explicit exceptions. This is a new doctrine. Since Lumen Gentium 16 or other text in Vatican Council II do not state that those saved in invincible ignorance etc are known to us or that they are an exception to Ad Gentes 7, Dominus Iesus 20 or the defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.There is no such text in Vatican Council II.

Lumen  Gentium 16 only mentions those saved in invincible ignorance. This was accepted by the Church Fathers, the popes and Councils. The SSPX also accepts this.

So Cardinal Luis Ladaria, who led the talks with the SSPX, is teaching a new doctrine with no supportive text in Vatican Council II. The SSPX and all faithful Catholics reject this interpretation allegedly of Vatican Council II.

So it should not be alleged that the SSPX reject Vatican Council II with reference to ecumenism and inter religious dialogue. Instead it is the Vatican team which claims that there are visible cases of non Catholics saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance who are known to us  and these are exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14 which says all need to enter the Church. Since the cardinal and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith imply  that these are exceptions it is assumed that these exceptions are known to them.

The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 which Cardinal Luis Ladaria quotes in the ITC position paper does not mention that those saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance are known to us or that they are explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

If the Letter assumed that those saved in invincible ignorance etc were defacto exceptions to the dogma then it would be an objective and common sense error on their part. Fr.Leonard Feeney was correct in saying that the baptism of desire etc are not exceptions to the dogma.These cases are known only in Heaven.

So when the Vatican-team at the talks which included a former Rector of the Angelicum University, Rome state those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus they do not have any supportive text in Vatican Council II.

The  SSPX should not be expected to accept this erroneous version of Vatican Council II.
Lionel Andrades
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FRIDAY, MARCH 30, 2012

SSPX ASK MSGR.NICOLA BUX OF THE CDF A BASIC QUESTION ON CATHOLIC DOCTRINE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/sspx-ask-msgrnicola-bux-of-cdf-basic.html