Tuesday, July 21, 2015

The Bible mentions Hell some 18 times. Jesus repeatedly tells us about Hell. How would Balthasar or any one else know otherwise ?

Fr. Robert  Barron writes:

If there are any human beings in hell, they are there because they absolutely insist on it. The conditional clause with which the last sentence began honors the church’s conviction that, though we must accept the possibility of hell (due to the play between divine love and human freedom), we are not committed doctrinally to saying that anyone is actually “in” such a place.

Lionel:
So accept for the saints we are not committed doctrinally to say that anyone is actually 'in ' Heaven.
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 We can’t see fully to the depths of anyone’s heart; only God can. 
Lionel:
Neither can we see fully to the depths of anyone's heart to say he is going to Heaven. However the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus  indicates most people are on the way to Hell since they are not formal members of the Catholic Church. Vatican Council II has the same message in Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14.
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Accordingly, we can’t declare with utter certitude that anyone—even Judas, even Hitler—has chosen definitively to lock the door against the divine love.
Lionel:
Neither can Fr.Barron infer that they are in Heaven.
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 Indeed, the liturgy compels us to pray for all of the dead, and since the law of prayer is the law of belief, we must hold out at least the hope that all people will be saved.
Lionel:
How can you hold such a belief which contradicts even the Bible. Jesus has said enter through the narrow gate for the gate is wide which leads to Hell and most people take it.
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 Furthermore, since Christ went to the very limits of godforsakenness in order to establish solidarity even with those who are furthest from grace, we may, as Hans Urs von Balthasar insisted, reasonably hope that all will find salvation…
Lionel:
The Bible mentions Hell some 18 times. Jesus repeatedly tells us about Hell. How would Balthasar or any one else know otherwise ?
-Lionel Andrades

http://eponymousflower.blogspot.it/2015/07/another-poor-appointment-for-usa-media.html?showComment=1437505518201#c7034327505957181768

Vatican Council says we really cannot have a reasonable hope that all men are saved : When did Fr.Barron say this ?

Comments on the Eponymous Flower.
Vatican Council says we really cannot have a reasonable hope that all men are saved.
Vatican Council II says all need to convert into the Church and Catholics are the new people of God, the Chosen People.

VATICAN COUNCIL II SAYS ALL MUSLIMS, JEWS IN ROME, ITALY ARE GOING TO HELL.

VATICAN COUNCIL II SAYS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/02/vatican-council-ii-says.html

When did Fr.Barron say this ?

-Lionel Andrades

Fr.Robert Barron and Michael Voris like most people interpret Vatican Council II with the right hand side values http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/08/frrobert-barron-and-michael-voris-like.html

Fr.Barron -except for the saints, and the Holy Family, the Church does not say anyone is in Heaven http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/11/frbarron-except-for-saints-and-holy.html

http://eponymousflower.blogspot.it/2015/07/another-poor-appointment-for-usa-media.html?showComment=1437490326922#c5646024666808341900
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By A Customer on Nov. 5 1999
Hell and How to Avoid Hell by Thomas A. Nelson
Format: Mass Market Paperback
This book is an absolute must for everyone, regardless if you are Christian or not! You will not be able to put the book down as it captivates you with an absolutely overwhelming feeling of fear and terror. It really causes you to re-evaluate your own conscience and whether or not you are on the path to heaven. This book is especially needed for those who do not know Jesus Christ and for those that do know Him but think they are "once saved always saved." The Bible clearly states that we must accept Christ into our lives in order to be saved from the fires of Hell, but we must also "work out our salvation with nervous trembling." This book discusses these points in great detail as well as many other important biblical facts about Heaven, Hell, and salvation. It's a must buy!
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A young Korean artist taken to Hell. Drew pictures of it.
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The entrance it seems to me was similar to a very long and narrow alleyway, like an oven, low and dark and confined; the floor seemed to me to consist of dirty, muddy water emitting foul stench and swarming with putrid vermin...The bodily pains were so unbearable that though I had suffered excruciating ones in this life and according to what doctors say, the worst that can be suffered on earth for all my nerves were shrunken when I was paralyzed, plus many other sufferings of many kinds that I endured and even some as I said, caused by the devil, these were all nothing in comparison with the ones I experienced there...-St.Teresa of Avila's description of Hell.
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These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings.   https://youtu.e/_La-_wEJ4Fk
There are special Tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings related to the manner in which it has sinned.
I would have diedThere are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me...-St.Faustina Kowalska's description of Hell.
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"Then I was pushed into one of those fiery cavities and pressed, as it were, between burning planks, and sharp nails and red-hot irons seemed to be piercing my flesh."

Here Josefa repeated the multiple tortures from which no single member of the body is excluded:

"I felt as if they were endeavoring to pull out my tongue, but could not. This torture reduced me to such agony that my very eyes seemed to be starting out of their sockets. I think this was because of the fire which burns, burns... not a finger-nail escapes terrifying torments, and all the time one cannot move even a finger to gain some relief, nor change posture, for the body seems flattened out and yet doubled in two.-Sr.Joseph Menendez's description of Hell.
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There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day. And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores,
Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man' s table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham' s bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell. And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom: And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame. And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented. 

And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither. And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father' s house, for I have five brethren, That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments. And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance. 
And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead. -Luke :19-31, The Rich Man (Dives) and Lazarus.
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Second Circle (Lust)


Gianciotto Discovers Paolo and Francesca
In the second circle of Hell are those overcome by lust. Dante condemns these "carnal malefactors"[ for letting their appetites sway their reason. They are the first ones to be truly punished in Hell. These souls are blown back and forth by the terrible winds of a violent storm, without rest. This symbolizes the power of lust to blow one about needlessly and aimlessly.
In this circle, Dante sees 
SemiramisDidoCleopatraHelen of TroyAchillesParisTristan, and many others who were overcome by sexual love during their life. Dante is told byFrancesca da Rimini how she and her husband's brother Paolo Malatesta committed adultery, but then died a violent death, in the name of Love, at the hands of her husband, Giovanni (Gianciotto). Francesca reports that their act of adultery was triggered by reading the adulterous story of Lancelot and Guinevere (an episode sculpted by Auguste Rodin in The Kiss). Nevertheless, she predicts that her husband will be punished for his fratricidein Caïna, within the ninth circle (Canto V).
Alse see Dante's experience in Hell in The Divine Comedy( Inferno).
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http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/04/didnt-jesus-teach-about-hell.html

FIFTH EXERCISE

IT IS A MEDITATION ON HELL

It contains in it, after the Preparatory Prayer and two Preludes, five Points and one Colloquy:
Prayer. Let the Preparatory Prayer be the usual one. 
First Prelude. The first Prelude is the composition, which is here to see with the sight of the imagination the length, breadth and depth of Hell. 
Second Prelude. The second, to ask for what I want: it will be here to ask for interior sense of the pain which the damned suffer, in order that, if, through my faults, I should forget the love of the Eternal Lord, at least the fear of the pains may help me not to come into sin. 
First Point. The first Point will be to see with the sight of the imagination the great fires, and the souls as in bodies of fire. 
Second Point. The second, to hear with the ears wailings, howlings, cries, blasphemies against Christ our Lord and against all His Saints. 
Third Point. The third, to smell with the smell smoke, sulphur, dregs and putrid things. 
Fourth Point. The fourth, to taste with the taste bitter things, like tears, sadness and the worm of conscience. 
Fifth Point. The fifth, to touch with the touch; that is to say, how the fires touch and burn the souls. 
Colloquy. Making a Colloquy to Christ our Lord, I will bring to memory the souls that are in Hell, some because they did not believe the Coming, others because, believing, they did not act according to His Commandments; making three divisions...
- The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola, [1914]  http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/seil/seil15.htm

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