Archbishop Lefebvre interpreted Vatican Council II with the False Premise and not the Rational Premise and contributed towards the theological paradigm shift

I missed the first part of the discussion and arrived about a an hour late. I was fortunate to listen to them as things worked out this evening for me.

Dr. Robert Fastiggi who teaches at the leftist and liberal Sacred Heart Major Seminary, Detroit, USA said that some  theologians showed that they were not with the mind of the Church,like Fr. Hans Kung and there were others like Yves Congar who were not modernists but represented a certain mind set.Fastiggi said that he follows the opinion that the Holy Spirit would protect the Council from grave error and heresy.

Bishop Athanasius Schneider  remarked that we have to distinguish between heresy and error. Theological error is not a heresy.It can be corrected with the ordinary pronouncement of a pope.He agreed with Dr. Fastiggi that  the Holy Spirit will protect the pope so the Holy Spirit is guiding the Church today.But for Bishop Schneider there were rare cases in which there were errors, example as in the case of Pope Liberius. Now there are the errors of Pope Francis he observed. Though he did not think that Pope Francis was in heresy.

For Bishop Schneider there are expressions in Dominus Iesus which undermine Church teachings. He called for clear doctrinal statements.

He hoped that there will be a pope and a Council to clarify all the ambiguities of  Vatican Council II and the pronouncements of the popes after the Council. We have to preserve the integrity of the faith.

The Church must transmit the clarity and purity of the faith for the next generations to come, said Bishop Athanasius Schneider.

Even though there is confusion today the Catholic Church will return to its beauty and splendor he believed. We have confidence that Christ is winning and all is in his hands.

Dr.Julio Loredo and Jose Antonio Ureta spoke about Prof. Plinio Correira D'Oliveira and his work and his denunciation of modernist ideas being introduced.

Jose Antonio Ureta is the author of the book Pope Francis Paradigm Shift Continuity or Rupture.He said that it was noticed at the time of Vatican Council II  that collegiality was introducing new doctrines.The present Synods he said are an example of that collegiality.

For Robert Mohniyan  there could be a  development of doctrine but we cannot have a new Church with new doctrines. Bishop Schneider agreed with him on this point.

Bishop Schneider agreed with him.We cannot  speak of a new Church or Conciliar Church since Christ is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. 

All the speakers did not mention that Vatican Council II today can be interpreted in harmony with the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors. Irrespective of who was present at Vatican Council II and what was the voting pattern.

A.The Holy Spirit cannot want us to interpret Vatican Council II with LG 8, LG 14,LG16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc as referring to physically visible, personally known and objective people in 1965-2021 who were saved outside the Catholic Church without faith and the baptism of water.Yet this is the common error today.

This is also common sense that we LG 8 etc can be practical cases since they are only known to God.This confusion was not there in the Church before the 1930's.But the liberals and traditionalists like the popes interpret LG 8, LG 14, LG 16 as referring to visible cases who are practical exceptions to the past exclusivist ecclesiology.This cannot be Magisterial.

B.So if the Holy Spirit wants us to be rational then we have to interpret LG 8,LG 14,LG 16 etc as being  hypothetical and theoretical only.This would mean that there are no practical exceptions to Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus. The Council is then dogmatic.It is in harmony with the past ecclesiocentrism.There is no break between faith and reason.

But the popes from Paul VI chose A and this could not be the work of the Holy Spirit.Also Robert Fastiggi and Robert Mohniyan choose the irrational interpretation of the Council and consider it the work of the Holy Spirit.

How can we say that we are still in the one, holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church when the popes today say outside the Church there is salvation ( based on a False Premise) and the popes of the past said outside the Church there is no salvation ?.Theologically this was creating a new Church. This was the real paradigm shift.

It was not mentioned that Archbishop Lefebvre interpreted Vatican Council II with the False Premise and not the Rational Premise.

With Vatican Council II Feeneyite, interpreted with the Rational Premise collegiality is not an issue. Since collegiality will have to be traditional at future synods.-Lionel Andrades

NOVEMBER 12, 2021

Coetus Internationalis Patrum were and are Cushingites.They are politically correct with the liberals.

 

"Coetus internationalis Patrum. The other side of Vatican II". Streaming november 12, 4pm

The Coetus Internationalis Patrum (International Group of Fathers) was the most important and influential interest group of the "conservative/traditionalist” minority at the Second Vatican Council. There were very relevant protagonists of this study group, as Cardinal Giuseppe Siri, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Archbishop Antônio de Castro Mayer and behind the scenes Brazilian Catholic thinker Plinio Côrrea de Oliveira. What we have to think today about it?

With host, musician and author Mº Aurelio Porfiri will debate about this topic Bishop Athanasius Schneider, Theologian Robert Fastiggi, Chief editor “of Inside the Vatican” Robert Moynihan, members of “Tradition, Family, Property” association and scholars José Antonio Ureta and Julio Loredo.

The program will be live streamed on numerous social media channels, including the You Tube channel RITORNO A ITACA, the Facebook fanpage of AURELIO PORFIRI and on Aurelio Porfiri’s TWITTER account.

'The Coetus Internationalis Patrum (International Group of Fathers)

 was the most important and influential interest group of the 

"conservative/traditionalist” minority at the Second Vatican Council. '

 The Coetus Internationalis Patrum  were Cushingites.

They  interpreted interpreting Vatican  Council II with the False Premise

 and not the Rational Premise.

The participants at this meeting are politically correct Cushingites. 

Bishop Athanasius Schneider was a Cushingite but when the said that 

there are no literal cases of the baptism of desire, in his interview with

Dr. Taylor Marshall, he was rejecting the New Theology and was 

Feeneyite. .-Lionel Andardes

http://blog.messainlatino.it/2021/11/coetus-internationalis-patrum-other.html#more

Coetus Internationalis Patrum were and are Cushingites.They are politically correct with the liberals.

 

"Coetus internationalis Patrum. The other side of Vatican II". Streaming november 12, 4pm

The Coetus Internationalis Patrum (International Group of Fathers) was the most important and influential interest group of the "conservative/traditionalist” minority at the Second Vatican Council. There were very relevant protagonists of this study group, as Cardinal Giuseppe Siri, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Archbishop Antônio de Castro Mayer and behind the scenes Brazilian Catholic thinker Plinio Côrrea de Oliveira. What we have to think today about it?

With host, musician and author Mº Aurelio Porfiri will debate about this topic Bishop Athanasius Schneider, Theologian Robert Fastiggi, Chief editor “of Inside the Vatican” Robert Moynihan, members of “Tradition, Family, Property” association and scholars José Antonio Ureta and Julio Loredo.

The program will be live streamed on numerous social media channels, including the You Tube channel RITORNO A ITACA, the Facebook fanpage of AURELIO PORFIRI and on Aurelio Porfiri’s TWITTER account.

'The Coetus Internationalis Patrum (International Group of Fathers)

 was the most important and influential interest group of the 

"conservative/traditionalist” minority at the Second Vatican Council. '

 The Coetus Internationalis Patrum  were Cushingites.

They  interpreted interpreting Vatican  Council II with the False Premise

 and not the Rational Premise.

The participants at this meeting are politically correct Cushingites. 

Bishop Athanasius Schneider was a Cushingite but when the said that 

there are no literal cases of the baptism of desire, in his interview with

Dr. Taylor Marshall, he was rejecting the New Theology and was 

Feeneyite. .-Lionel Andardes

http://blog.messainlatino.it/2021/11/coetus-internationalis-patrum-other.html#more

Bishop Robert Barron and Massimo Faggioli could clarify that all their books on Vatican Council II were written with a Fake and not Rational Premise and that they apologise for the mistake which they will correct in future books.

Bishop  Robert Barron and Massimo Faggioli could clarify that all their books on Vatican Council II were written with a Fake and not Rational Premise and that they apologise for the mistake which they will correct in future books. They will also remove those books from the shelves, which were written with the objective mistake and stop their publication.

Also Bishop Robert Barron will remove his television programs, some in which he criticized conservative Catholics, calling them extremists, for not accepting Vatican Council II interpreted with the Fake Premise.

So his New Evangelisation will be based upon Vatican Council II ( Rational ) and will project a Catholic Church which is not only Christocentric but also Ecclesiocentric.

Massimo Faggioli must ask Alberto Melloni who directs the Foundation for Religious Sciences John XXIII research institution at Bologna, Italy, called the Bologna School, where he studied, to make the needed announcement. It is not scientific to use a false premise and then produce theories and a theology.

Bishop Robert Barron and Massimo Faggioli  and Massimo Faggioli must inform the Press about this change. They cannot keep giving interviews and talk about Vatican Council II as if they are not aware of the error, they made all these years.-Lionel Andrades

Il miracoloso Bambino di Praga

Pope Francis could announce that Pope Paul VI made a mistake and so Catholics are not obliged to interpret the Council with the False Premise but instead with the Rational Premise

If Pope Paul VI abrogated the Latin Mass based upon the irrational interpretation of Vatican Council II the action is not Magisterial. It is a personal error, a major theological error and is null and void.Catholics are not obliged to follow it.

Traditionis Custode has wrongly asked Catholics to interpret and accept Vatican Council II with the Fake and not Rational Premise.The Holy Spirit would not teach this objective and factual error and also contradict the past Magisterium which was not only Christocentric but also Ecclesiocentric.

Pope Francis  could announce that Pope Paul VI made a factual mistake and that Catholics are not obliged to interpret the Council with the Fake Premise. So LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc in Vatican Council II, should be seen as being only hypothetical and not personally known people, in specific cases, in 1965-2021, saved without Catholic faith and the baptism of water.

Presently Pope Francis and the Congregation  for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), refer to LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc, as being literal people whom we know, who are saved outside the Church.This is irrational and false. Upon this False Premise is based the New Theology, New Ecumenism, New Evangelisation, New Canon Law etc, of Pope Benedict and Cardinal Ladaria.

So now we know that Catholics can attend/ offer Holy Mass in Latin or the vernacular, and affirm Vatican Council II ( Feeneyite-with the Rational Premise), extra ecclesiam nulla salus ( Feeneyite-   with the Rational Premise), Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX ( Feeneyite- with the Rational Premise),Athanasius Creed ( Feeneyite- with the Rational Premise) 1, Nicene Creed ( Feeneyite- with the Rational Premise), Catechism of the Catholic Church 846,1257 ( Feeneyite- with the Rational Premise ), Catechism of Pope Pius X( Feeneyite- with the Rational Premise), Catechism of the Council of Trent ( Feeneyite- with the Rational Premise).

It is a mortal sin of faith for a Catholic to affirm the Nicene Creed ( Cushingite- with the Fake Premise),extra ecclesiam nulla salus ( Cushingite- with the Irrational Premise), all the Catechisms ( interpreted with the Fake Premise creating a break with the Creeds), Vatican Council II (Cushingite-interpreted with the Fake Premise creating a theological rupture with the Creeds and EENS).-Lionel Andrades

1

The Athanasius Creed says with no known exceptions,being mentioned, ' Whoever desires to be saved would above all hold to the Catholic faith. Any one who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally'.

Judge Joseph DiClerico Jr could ask the Nuncio if Cardinal Luiz Ladaria and his Archbishop-Secretaries use a sneaky False Premise to change Church teachings and then impose sanctions upon Catholics who do not accept it

 

Judge Joseph Di Clerico Jr., must note that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF) and  Fr. Georges de Laire are slandering and defaming the St. Benedict Center(SBC), since they do not use a Fake Premise to interpret extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS), Vatican Council II and other Magisterial Documents.The CDF and the Diocese of Manchester impose a private and political interpretation of EENS and Vatican Council II,  which cannot be that of the Catholic Church and then they are making legal demands, enumerated in a harsh Decree of Prohibitions.

Since the SBC will not conform their chapel has been closed and the lay Catholics have to go for Mass at another church, where the priest and religious community conform with the official deception of the CDF and the bishop and Curia of the Diocese of Manchester.

The CDF and Fr. Georges de Laire violate the Principle of Non Contradiction  when they want the SBC to say that unknown cases of the baptism of desire in the present times (2021), mentioned in the Cathechism of the Catholic Church (847-848) are objective and personally known people saved outside the  Church, without Catholic faith and the baptism of water. So invisible people are projected as objective exceptions to the strict interpretation of EENS, as held by the St. Benedict Center, N.H.For the CDF and Fr.De Laire, Vatican Council II (LG 16) is a break with the 16^th century interpretation of EENS according to the Magisterium of that time.

But it is common sense that there are no objective cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance in New Hampshire in 1965-2021.

The Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary in New Hampshire accept Vatican Council II and EENS but unlike the plaintiff Fr. George de Laire, interprets them with the Rational Premise ( invisible cases are invisible in 2021, LG 16 does not refer to a literal and known person but a hypothetical case).

Yet the SBC are called 'ultra traditionalists' by a leftist media to whom Fr. Georges de Laire grants interviews, without correcting their errors.

All the religious communities in New Hampshire are being forced to accept the unethical interpretation of Vatican Council II and EENS or face severe consequences. The SBC is refusing to accept this official dishonesty and so they are targeted.

The Vatican Nuncio could confirm that Cardinal Luiz Ladaria sj, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and his Secretaries, Archbishops Giacomo Morandi and Augustine di Noia, use a Fake Premise ( invisible people are visible in 2021 who are allegedly saved outside the Catholic Church without the baptism of water and  Catholic Faith but  with the baptism of desire or invincible ignorance).This irrationality is accepted by Bishop Peter Libasci and his Curia and there is no denial from any of them over the last few years.They are not responding in writing for requests for information.

Fr. Georges de Laire at his million dollar home, which he purchased with his own money received from an inheritance, granted an interview to a correspondent (Union Leader, New Hampshire),  and did not tell him, that if they both did not use the False Premise, they would be affirming the same doctrine as the St. Benedict Center.It is only the sneaky Fake Premise which allows them to be politically correct and change Catholic teaching.So now they do not have to affirm the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX, the Athanasius Creed and EENS which are all made obsolete with the Irrational Premise approved by the CDF.

The National Catholic Reporter (Christopher White) in a report critical of Michael Voris and Church Militant TV,  has criticized the SBC as if the Decree of Prohibitions has been placed upon them since they do not affirm the Church teachings, when it is the CDF which uses a Fake Premise  to violate the Principle of Non Contradiction and rejects the traditiional de fide teachings.It then  imposes  a harsh Decree upon the religious community Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, Richmond, NH.

The judge could ask the CDF to clarify if they have changed the teachings of the Catholic Church and this is hidden and unknown to the people.The means was unethical and it was clear subterfuge?

The SBC needs to be compensated since they are 

following the teachings of the Catholic Church, 

with no public deception.They suffer because of 

the CDF official deception which can be confirmed on the website of the Diocese of Manchester, the Placuit Deo Press Conference and in two theological papers of the International Theological Commission, Vatican.-Lionel Andrades

NOVEMBER 11, 2021

If Judge Joseph DiClerico Jr., in New Hampshire is Feeneyite on Vatican Council II and EENS then he will note that Fr. Georges de Laire is unethical and dishonest, even after being informed and so is Bishop Peter Libasci, the Bishop of the Diocese of Manchester.

 

There are two interpretations of Magisterial Documents , one with the False Premise which I call Cushingite and the other with the Rational Premise I call Feeneyite.Cushingism is a break with the Athanasius Creed, the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX and extra ecclesiam nulla salus ( with no exceptions).Feneeyism is in harmony with Tradition.

So it is not enough to refer, for example, to Vatican Council II, without specifying if you mean Vatican Council II Cushingite or Feeneyite.

Here is a short list.

Nicene Creed ( Feeneyite or Cushingite).

Athanasius Creed ( Feeneyite or Cushingite).

Extra ecclesiam nulla salus ( Feeneyite or Cushingite ).

Vatican Council II ( Feeneyite or Cushingite).

Catechism of the Council of Trent ( Feeneyite or Cushingite).

Catechism of the Baltimore ( Feeneyite or Cushingite )

Catechism of Pope Pius X ( Feeneyite or Cushingite).

Catechism of the Catholic Church ( Feeneyite or Cushingite ).

These are Primary Church Documents. We can interpret them with the False Premise or the Rational Premise and the conclusion would be irrational or rational.

There are also Secondary Church Documents. They are only Cushingite.There are no Church Documents after Vatican Council II, which I can think of , which are only Feeneyite.

Traditionis Custode is Cushingite.Pope Francis used the False Premise to interpret Vatican Council II.

The Lutheran-Catholic Declaration on Justification is Cushingite.

The Balamand Declaration is Cushingite and so null and void.

In a Primary Document we can choose between Feeneyism and Cushingism. In a Secondary Document we cannot choose.It is Cushingite.

Vatican Council II itself is a Primary Document since there are Feeneyite and Cushingite passages.

In Dijon, France the writings of Bishop Roland Mitterand are Cushingite and so he was made a consultant to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF).

The Dominicans today, unlike St.Dominic, are Cushingites and so they were appointed members of the Vatican’s International Theological Commission.

Bishop Athanasius Schneider and Dr.Taylor Marshall have been Cushingite but when they said that there are no literal cases of the baptism of desire and there are no explicit cases of Aquinas’ implicit baptism of desire, they were Feeneyite.They implied that there were no objective exceptions for Feeneyite EENS. There were none mentioned in Vatican Council II.

Fr. Georges de Laire, Vicar General, in the Diocese of Manchester, New Hampshire, USA, is Cushingite and so he was approved by the CDF to place a harsh Decree of Prohibitions upon the St. Benedict Center(SBC).The SBC are Feeneyite on Vatican Council II and EENS.

If Judge Joseph DiClerico Jr., in New Hampshire is Feeneyite  on Vatican Council II and EENS then he will note that Fr. Georges de Laire is unethical and dishonest, even after being informed and so is Bishop Peter Libasci, the Bishop of the Diocese of Manchester.

They are following the CDF which is also Cushingite on Vatican Council II and EENS, the Creeds and Catechisms.Cushingism is irrational.So they are irrational on Vatican Council II, EENS, the Creeds and Catechisms.

For a secular  or religious judiciary , a False Premise is a False Premise, a lie is a lie.-Lionel Andrades

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/11/if-judge-joseph-diclerico-jr-in-new.html

 NOVEMBER 11, 2021

Judge Joseph A. Diclerico Jr., in New Hampshire must ask Fr. Georges de Laire, the CDF and the liberal media to clarify their theological and doctrinal position : SBC being slandered

 Judge Joseph A. Diclerico Jr., in New Hampshire could note that the St.Benedict Center, Richmond, New Hampshire ( mentioned  by Fr. Georges de Laire  in the legal suit against Michael Voris) is being defamed only because they refuse to interpret Vatican Council II and EENS with a False Premise.

Fr. Georges de Laire and the Curia in the Diocese of Manchester,USA, use the False Premise to interpret all Magiserterial Documents and there is no denial from any of them. The Curia does not deny using the unethical False Premise.

Even the National Catholic Reporter and New Hampshire Union Leader use the False Premise  to interpret Magisterial Documents.Then they calumninate the St. Benedict Center directly or innuendo for not choosing the same deception and the lie.

The diocese of Manchester cannot explain  their theological and doctrinal position in writing( as I have done on this blog Eucharist and Mission ).They would say that they are following the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF).But the CDF also uses the same False Premise , to interpret Vatican Council II and extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).

The CDF has no  right to violate the Principle of Non Contradiction .It must not suggest that people saved with the baptism of desire etc are in Heaven  and also visible on earth for them to be exceptions  to Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus .

They cannot be in two places at the same time.

This is fantasy and irrational.This nonsense cannot be a reason to impose a harsh Decree of Prohibitions on the religious at the St.Benedict Center.

The Slaves, an ultra-traditionalist offshoot of a Massachusetts group founded by the late Rev. Leonard Feeney, were ordered to stop calling themselves Catholic in January 2019 under the terms of a letter from the diocese. The group was given an extensive list of prohibitions, including a restriction against raising money for a Catholic entity. 1

It is false to call them ultra traditionalist when they affirm Vatican Council II and EENS but interpret them rationally unlike Damien Fisher(New Hamphire Union Leader) and Christopher White and Heidi Schlumpf at the National Catholic Reporter, who affirm Vatican Council II and EENS irrationally to create a break with Feeneyite EENS.

Rev. Georges de Laire, the episcopal vicar for canonical affairs for the Diocese of Manchester, said the fundraising for the school may fall just short of violating the 2019 restrictions. While the group cannot claim it is operating a Catholic school, it instead claims its school offers an education in the “Catholic tradition.”

“They know exactly what they are doing,” de Laire said. “It is not the first time the group has manipulated language in order to project official recognition by the Catholic Church.”

According to a statement on the diocesan website, the group is not supposed to imply in any way an affiliation with the church. 2

Fr.Georges de Laire refuses to say in public what really is his theological position, if he has any on this issue. The CDF is irrational and so non traditional on this issue.

 The CDF Archbishops use the same False Premise as Fr. Georges de Laire to avoid affirming Feeneyite EENS.This is unethical and dishonest. For political reasons they change the theology and doctrines of the Catholic Church, with the use of a Fake Premise.Then those who do not support this deception are hit with sanctions.

How can Fr. Georges de Laire remain a Judicial Vicar when he interprets Magisterial documents deceptively and does not deny it?

Bishop Peter Libasci, Fr. Georges de Laire, the  National Catholic Reporter and the New Hampshire Union Leader reporters could clarify that they do not interpret Vatican Council II with the Fake Premise. They are not unethical and dishonest.

1.If they do use the False Premise they are unethical and dishonest. 

2.If they do not use the False Premise they hold the same theological and doctrinal position as the St.Benedict Center. They would be rejecting the New Theology and going back to the old theology. They would be affirming extra ecclesiam nulla salus with the traditional exclusivist interpretation.The irrational and deceptive interpretation of the CDF would be avoided.

The liberal media and Fr. Georges de Laire and the CDF must let us know where they stand on these issues.-Lionel Andrades

1

https://www.unionleader.com/news/religion/religious-community-raises-money-despite-restrictions/article_b7b4f383-c0db-5c0f-be40-4a7e2ccafa3c.html

2

ibid

__________________________

NOVEMBER 6, 2021

For Judge Joseph A. Diclerico Jr. there would be no literal cases of the BOD, BOB and I.I in New Hampshire in 2021 : but for Fr. Georges de Laire there are

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/11/in-progress-religious-community-slaves.html

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/11/judge-joseph-diclerico-jr-in-new.html

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A Medjugorje oltre ai sei veggenti, due ragazze hanno ricevuto le locuzioni interiori-