Pope Francis was saying that it is not possible for the Orthodox Christians to find Jesus outside the Catholic Church

When Pope Francis said that it is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church was he also referring to the Orthodox Christians ?

Comments on Rorate Caeili suggest that the pope's statement is contradicted by Vatican Council II with reference to ecumenism and ecclesiology (understanding of church).(1)

Also on a discussion board a priest thinks the pope is contradicted.This is not true. Here is our correspondence.

Fr.John George:

you fail to add eg blessed eucharist validly present in orthodox churches therefore christ is found beyond visible rcc[ but primordial and primary location in rcc from which all eucharists derive]

Lionel:
It is not possible for the Orthodox Christians to find Jesus outside the Catholic Church.

ii]but orthodox eucharist is united with rcc visible eucharists[as part of eucharistic multilocations in and beyond visible church

Yes. The Eucharist in the Catholic Church is also valid but if a Catholic is in schism or heresy it is a mortal sin. This is not finding Jesus or wanting to be with Him forever in eternity.

Similarly the Orthodox Christians to find Jesus must convert into the Catholic Church.

Not every one who says Lord,Lord will enter the Church but those who do the will of God.
It is the will of God that all be united in the Catholic Church(CCC 845).

Many will say I did this and that in your name, Scripture tells, and Jesus will say depart from me I do not know you.

iii][such orthodox churches are not absolutely beyond rc but conjoined[vat2]with visible rcc though not fully incorporated[catholic ecumenic hermeneusis 101]

Vatican Council II says they need Catholic Faith for salvation.(AG 7).

iv]pope rightfully assumes nuanced hermeneusis by listeners

Pope Francis mentioned the 'hierarchical Church' as was referred to by St.Ignatius of Loyola. This removes any doubt. He was speaking of the Catholic Church of which he is the head and in which the Orthodox Christians are not members.

-Lionel Andrades

 

http://youtu.be/Jed_7aRz0Gk

 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Jed_7aRz0Gk

 

“It is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church”-Pope Francis

Pope: Mass on Feast of St. George

2013-04-23 Vatican Radio

(Vatican Radio) “It is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church”: this was Pope Francis’ message as he marked his name day, the Feast of St. George, this Tuesday celebrating Mass in the Pauline Chapel with the Cardinals present in Rome. Emer McCarthy reports:
In his homily, the Pope thanked the cardinals for coming to concelebrate with him: "Thank you - he said - because I really feel welcomed by you". Commenting on the readings of the day, the Holy Father highlighted three aspects of the Church: Its missionary activity, born of persecution; the fact that it is a Mother Church which gifts us the faith that is our identity and that you cannot find Jesus outside of the Church; the joy of belonging to the Church bringing Jesus to others. In short the joy of being an evangelizer:

Below we publish a Vatican Radio transcript and translation of the Holy Father’s Homily for Mass with the Cardinals in the Pauline Chapel.

I thank His Eminence, the Cardinal Dean, for his words: thank you very much, Your Eminence, thank you.
I also thank all of you who wanted to come today: Thank you. Because I feel welcomed by you. Thank you. I feel good with you, and I like that.
The [first] reading today makes me think that the missionary expansion of the Church began precisely at a time of persecution, and these Christians went as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, and proclaimed the Word. They had this apostolic fervor within them, and that is how the faith spread! Some, people of Cyprus and Cyrene - not these, but others who had become Christians - went to Antioch and began to speak to the Greeks too. It was a further step. And this is how the Church moved forward. Whose was this initiative to speak to the Greeks? This was not clear to anyone but the Jews. But ... it was the Holy Spirit, the One who prompted them ever forward ... But some in Jerusalem, when they heard this, became 'nervous and sent Barnabas on an "apostolic visitation": perhaps, with a little sense of humor we could say that this was the theological beginning of the Doctrine of the Faith: this apostolic visit by Barnabas. He saw, and he saw that things were going well.
And so the Church was a Mother, the Mother of more children, of many children. It became more and more of a Mother. A Mother who gives us the faith, a Mother who gives us an identity. But the Christian identity is not an identity card: Christian identity is belonging to the Church, because all of these belonged to the Church, the Mother Church. Because it is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church. The great Paul VI said: "Wanting to live with Jesus without the Church, following Jesus outside of the Church, loving Jesus without the Church is an absurd dichotomy." And the Mother Church that gives us Jesus gives us our identity that is not only a seal, it is a belonging. Identity means belonging. This belonging to the Church is beautiful.

And the third idea comes to my mind - the first was the explosion of missionary activity; the second, the Mother Church - and the third, that when Barnabas saw that crowd - the text says: " And a large number of people was added to the Lord" - when he saw those crowds, he experienced joy. " When he arrived and saw the grace of God, he rejoiced ": his is the joy of the evangelizer. It was, as Paul VI said, "the sweet and comforting joy of evangelizing." And this joy begins with a persecution, with great sadness, and ends with joy. And so the Church goes forward, as one Saint says - I do not remember which one, here - "amid the persecutions of the world and the consolations of the Lord." And thus is the life of the Church. If we want to travel a little along the road of worldliness, negotiating with the world - as did the Maccabees, who were tempted, at that time - we will never have the consolation of the Lord. And if we seek only consolation, it will be a superficial consolation, not that of the Lord: a human consolation. The Church's journey always takes place between the Cross and the Resurrection, amid the persecutions and the consolations of the Lord. And this is the path: those who go down this road are not mistaken.

Let us think today about the missionary activity of the Church: these [people] came out of themselves to go forth. Even those who had the courage to proclaim Jesus to the Greeks, an almost scandalous thing at that time. Think of this Mother Church that grows, grows with new children to whom She gives the identity of the faith, because you cannot believe in Jesus without the Church. Jesus Himself says in the Gospel: " But you do not believe, because you are not among my sheep." If we are not "sheep of Jesus," faith does not some to us. It is a rosewater faith, a faith without substance. And let us think of the consolation that Barnabas felt, which is "the sweet and comforting joy of evangelizing." And let us ask the Lord for this "parresia", this apostolic fervor that impels us to move forward, as brothers, all of us forward! Forward, bringing the name of Jesus in the bosom of Holy Mother Church, and, as St. Ignatius said, "hierarchical and Catholic." So be it.

(emphasis added)

http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-mass-on-feast-of-st-george-full-text
 

1

Rorate Caeili correspondents also believe that Vatican Council II contradicts Pope Francis

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/04/rorate-caeili-correspondents-also.html

The Bishop of Worcester like other bishops does not also affirm the Catholic Faith for the sake of peace.

The Bishop of Worcester could affirm Vatican Council II which says all need faith and baptism for salvation.This is also the position of the  Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, in Worcester. They are the community of Fr.Leonard Feeney who have been granted full canonical status in Worcester.

There is no known mission in the diocese to the Muslims and other non Catholics based on Vatican Council II ( AG 7).Possibly the priority is peace and security.-Lionel Andrades

Bishop of the Diocese of Worcester has not denied that religious communities could hold the literal interepretation of the dogma alongwith implicit desire:a precedent for the SSPX and their interpretation of Vatican Council IIhttp://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/06/bishop-of-diocese-of-worcester-has-not.html#links

I affirm Vatican Council II and hold the SSPX traditional position on ecumenism and other religions http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/06/i-affirm-vatican-council-ii-and-hold.html

RELIGIOUS SUPERIORS IN WORCESTER CANONICALLY HAVE NO RIGHT TO OFFICE: THEY VIOLATE THE NORMS OF THE EUCHARIST TOO JUST LIKE THE LCWR

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/06/religious-superiors-in-worcester.html#links

BISHOPS OF BOSTON, WORCESTER, MANCHESTER AGREE WE DO NOT KNOW ANY CASE OF SOMEONE SAVED WITH IMPLICIT DESIRE OR INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE: SO THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION OF THE LITERAL INTERPRETATION OF THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/07/bishops-of-boston-worcester-manchester.html#links

Of Bishops and Bombers

April 29, 2013

It is time for Catholic leaders to update their thinking on Islam.

William Kilpatrick

Three crosses for each of the three people killed in the Boston Marathon bombings are seen at a makeshift memorial on Boylston Street in Boston April 18. (CNS photo/Jessica Rinaldi, Reuters)

In his Sunday homily the week after the Boston Marathon bombing, Cardinal Sean O’Malley said that the action of the bombers was a “perversion of their religion.” We have grown accustomed to hearing such statements from prelates, as well as from presidents and prime ministers. Terrorist have “perverted” their religion or“distorted” it or “misinterpreted” it. But how accurate are such assessments?

On one occasion, Muhammad ordered the beheading of more than 700 Jews who had surrendered to him. On another occasion, when a severed head was tossed at his feet by one of his men, he exclaimed that it was “more acceptable to me than the choicest camel in Arabia.” On still another occasion he exulted, “I have been made victorious through terror.” Indeed, the Qur’an is full of admonitions to terrorize. Was Muhammad perverting the religion he founded? Was he a“misunderstander” of Islam?

Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev felt obliged by their religion to wage jihad. A song on their YouTube playlist is titled “I will dedicate my life to jihad.” Had they misunderstood or perverted the meaning of jihad? Many of Islam’s official representatives in America would like us to think so. They tell us that jihad is simply an interior spiritual struggle or a quest for self-betterment. For example, the Council on American Islamic Relations in Chicago sponsors a bus ad campaign that presents a benign interpretation of jihad. Sample: a picture of a young Muslim woman wearing a gym outfit and a hijab accompanied by the caption, “My jihad is to keep fit despite my busy schedule. What’s yours?”

That’s one possible way to interpret jihad, but it’s not the main way that jihad has been understood in Islamic tradition throughout the centuries. When the Qur’an, the hadith, the sira, and the Islamic law manuals refer to jihad, they are almost always referring to the jihad of the sword. In Islam, the most commonly agreed-on definition of jihad is “war against non-Muslims.” The purpose of jihad is to establish, spread, and defend the religion of Islam. Although jihad is obligatory, not everyone is obliged to engage in battle. One can fulfill the obligation through financial support, moral support and, nowadays, through political activism, propaganda, and lawfare. The Qur’an, however, makes it quite clear that actual fighting is the preferred form of jihad—and certainly preferable to prayer in a mosque or to charitable works:

Do you pretend that he who gives a drink to the pilgrims and pays a visit to the Sacred Mosque is as worthy as the man who believes in God and the Last Day, and fights for God’s cause? These are not held equal by God…Those that have embraced the Faith, and left their homes, and fought for God’s cause with their wealth and with their persons are held in higher regard by God. (9: 19-20)

And they are held in high regard by many Muslims today, as indicated by the jubilation in the Muslim world following the 9/11 attack, the celebrations in Gaza after the Boston Marathon bombings, and the widespread mourning after the death of Osama Bin Laden.

Two days before Cardinal O’Malley’s homily, Bishop Robert McManus of the Diocese of Worcester, Massachusetts gave an interview about the bombing in which he urged residents not to “allow differences to cause suspicion among us.” This was an echo of a statement the bishop gave two months earlier when he explained why he had cancelled Robert Spencer’s talk on Islam to a Catholic men’s conference. The bishop was concerned that Spencer’s talk might undermine “interreligious dialogue with devout Muslims and possibly generate suspicion and even fear of people who practice piously the religion of Islam.”

When Bishop McManus warns against generating “suspicion and fear” of pious practitioners of Islam, the implication is that pious Muslims are the ones least deserving of suspicion. It’s probably safe to assume that, for the bishop, more pious equals more peaceful. That’s a good assumption to make in regard to Catholicism and most other religions, but not necessarily in regard to Islam. As any number of national security experts can testify, piety in a Muslim is not incompatible with violence. For example, in his “Letter to America,” Osama Bin Laden, sounding like a Puritan divine, calls for Americans to “reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling,” and instead to embrace“manners, principles, honor, and purity.”

Most pious Muslims don’t pose a danger to their fellow citizens, but that may be because many pious Muslims, like many pious Catholics, aren’t fully acquainted with the teachings of their faith. However, the combination of piety and knowledge one finds in people like Bin Laden and Ayatollah Khomeini can be a danger signal. Recall that Major Nidal Hasan, the Fort Hood murderer, was both a very devout Muslim and a knowledgeable one. For example, a year before his rampage he delivered a detailed and accurate PowerPoint presentation on Islamic doctrine to his medical colleagues.

We don’t know exactly how well-versed Tamerlan Tsarnaev was about Islam, but by all accounts he was becoming more pious by the day in the months before the Boston bombing. According to his aunt, he had recently (two years ago) taken to praying five times a day instead of once a day. Moreover, he did not smoke or drink (“God said no alcohol”) and grew a long beard as a sign of piety (he shaved it off before the massacre to avoid attracting attention). According to a Boston Globe story he once admonished a friend: “Why don’t you become a better Muslim? Why don’t you pray? Why don’t you do your Islamic duties?”

Did Tsarnaev pervert his religion? One way to find out is to look at the place where Islam is primarily practiced and preached—the mosque. Between 1998 and 2011, four separate studies of US mosques found that approximately 80 percent of them were teaching Islamic supremacism, jihad, and contempt for Jews and Christians. About 80 percent had texts on site advocating violence, and one study revealed that in 84 percent of the mosques, texts supporting violence were recommended by the imam.

According to some reports, Tamerlan Tsarnaev was radicalized during trips to Russia but he could just as easily have been radicalized in an American mosque. Two of the 9/11 terrorists were mentored at the Dar Al-Hijrah mosque in Falls Church, Virginia, as was Major Nidal Hasan. One of the leaders in that mosque was Anwar al Awlaki who, soon after leaving Virginia, became a terrorist leader in Yemen.

More to the point, serious questions have been raised about the leadership of the Islamic Society of Boston, which operates the two Islamic Centers—one in Cambridge and one in Boston—that the Tsarnaev brothers attended. One of ISB’s founders, Abdulrahman Alamoudi, is now in prison for his participation in an assassination plot. One of ISB’s original trustees, Imam Yusuf al-Qaradawi, is the spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood; he once called the Holocaust a “divine punishment” of the Jews: “The last punishment was carried out by Hitler…Allah willing, the next time will be at the hands of the believers.” In May of 2012, Imam Abdullah Faarooq, one of the senior leaders of ISB, told an assembly that they must“pick up the gun and the sword” in response to the arrest of two Boston-area terrorists. According to Americans for Peace and Tolerance, “APT’s extensive investigation shows that the mosque is a font of extremism—bringing in viciously anti-Jewish and anti-Christian speakers, and being headed by extremist leadership.” The mosque’s influence, says APT, “has resulted in terrorist charges or convictions for several individuals connected to the mosque, including the son of the mosque’s former vice-president.”

Nevertheless, the Islamic Society of Boston has found many enablers among non-Muslims, including the Mayor of Boston, who donated a valuable parcel of city land for the building of the Boston Islamic Center. In their efforts to protect Muslims from backlash, Catholic leaders need to take care that they don’t also become enablers of Islam’s radical agenda. As Cardinal O’Malley rightly observed in his homily, “The Tsarnaev brothers’ crimes should not be justification for prejudice against Muslims and immigrants.” But the cardinal also has an obligation to protect Catholics and other Christians from complacency about the threat from Islam. After all, as FBI statistics show, there has been little if any backlash against Muslims. On the other hand, Christians in Muslim lands are the victims of persecution on a massive scale. To say that the Brothers Tsarnaev were perverting their religion is to perpetuate a dangerous misunderstanding of Islam.

Undoubtedly, Catholic leaders will be able to point to the statements of their Muslim counterparts as proof that Islam is peacefully inclined. Muslim leaders in the US can be counted on to publicly deplore terrorism and the resulting carnage. Islam is a political religion and Islamic leaders are politically astute. They know what needs to be said to remain credible. Muslims are only a sliver of the population. What else are they going to say? To be sure, most of them do deplore the carnage, but just as surely most of them firmly believe in Islam’s right to dominate and subjugate. One of the reasons they may deplore the carnage is that they are quite confident that terror is not necessary in a society like ours, in which they can depend on naïve secular and religious enablers to smooth the path leading to Islamic domination.

This is not a call for Catholic leaders to adopt a hostile attitude toward Muslims in America (most of whom are far more moderate than their leadership), but to adopt a more critical stance toward Islam. Catholic bishops and dialoguers seem to be relying on outdated or simplistic beliefs about Islam that do not comport with the reality of Islamic texts and traditions, let alone with the facts on the ground in every Muslim-majority country.

Here’s an example of the kind of unexamined assumptions that are too prevalent among Christian leaders. In Scotland, St. John’s Episcopal Church in Aberdeen now shares its premises with hundreds of Muslims praying five times a day because the local mosque was too small to accommodate them. According to the rector, “Praying is never wrong. My job is to encourage people to pray.” Praying is never wrong? This is precisely the kind of simplistic thinking that makes it probable that Scots will one day be dhimmis in their own land.

Praying is never wrong? Doesn’t it depend on what you’re praying for? Consider this prayer, issued from a loud speaker at the holiest shrine in Mecca:

O Allah, vanquish the unjust Christians and the criminal Jews…strike them with your wrath…drape them with endless despair, unrelenting pain, and unremitting ailment; fill their lives with sorrow and pain…this is our supplication; Allah, grant us our request!

Statements such as“praying is never wrong” or “terror is a perversion of Islam,” or the assumption that piety equals peacefulness, reflect an ethnocentric and outdated understanding of religion. They are redolent of a bygone era, when it looked like the only obstacles to universal harmony were a few misunderstandings among different cultures. It seems well past time for Christians to retire these 1960s clichés and update their thinking.

It is reported that one of the Tsarnaev brothers owned a Mercedes. Let that serve as a metaphor for the current situation. While the Islamic vanguard is driving circles around them with a high-powered and sophisticated disinformation machine, Christian leaders seem content to chug along with an understanding of Islam that is about as dependable as a 1965 Ford trying to make its way through 21st-century traffic.(emphasis added)

About the Author

William Kilpatrick

William Kilpatrick is an author and lecturer. His latest book, Christianity, Islam, and Atheism: The Struggle for the Soul of the West, was recently published by Ignatius Press.

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/2218/of_bishops_and_bombers.aspx#.UX5qWbVaySo

Koran promotes Violence

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/time-choosing/2013/apr/29/politically-incorrect-truth-about-violence-and-fun/

Survey of how Muslims are like Protestantshttp://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2013/0430/Poll-shows-how-US-Muslims-are-like-Protestants-and-how-they-re-not?nav=topic-tag_topic_page-storyList

Archdiocese of Sydney has Gay Mass with 'Gay Rosaries'

Here is Michael Voris' original video on the Gay Mass in Sydney 26/apr/2012. Since last year even after being informed, Cardinal George Pell has permitted this Mass.

Video:Old Sins in New Town
http://youtu.be/xqSvNmAs7Sg

Archdiocese of Sydney is advertising Mass for homosexuals on their website

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/04/archdiocese-of-sydney-is-advertising.html#links


Australian priest approves Mass for homosexuals
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/04/australian-priest-approves-homosexual.html

Longest running Gay Mass in the world in Sydney Archdiocese - Michael Voris
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/04/longest-running-gay-mass-in-world-in.html
  Video: Rolling In their Graves http://youtu.be/fYyRZaQN2UE

Advertised on the Sydney Archdiocese website
http://catholictakingaction.blogspot.com.au/
  -Lionel Andrades

National Catholic Reporter does not mention Pope Francis' feast of St.George statement

Pope Francis , according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (845,846) and Vatican Council II (AG 7,LG 14) was saying outside the church there is no salvation ,when he said: "It is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church".

"It is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church".

Outside the Church there is no salvation according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church(845,846) and Vatican Council II (AG 7 ) means every one in the present times need to convert into the Catholic Church to be saved from Hell- and there are no known exceptions. Since, though it is possible for a person to be saved in invincible ignorance, implicit desire, elements of sanctification (LG 8), imperfect communion with the Church (UR), a good conscience(LG 16) etc, these cases are known only to God. They are invisible for us. So they are irrelevant to AG 7 and the dogma on exclusive salvation. They are no exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma according to Fr.Leonard Feeney of Boston,the saints, the popes and Church Councils.This is the official teaching of the Catholic Church before and after Vatican Council II. This is the teaching of the Church according to magisterial documents.

The disssenting National Catholic Reporter  would have difficulty with this report. The NCR interprets Vatican Council II (LG 16 etc) as an exception to the statement of the Holy Father.It is possible to find Jesus outside the Church, for them, and to be saved from Hell. For the liberal NCR there is salvation outside the Church, since those saved in invincible ignorance etc are physically visible  exceptions . Since they can allegedly see the dead-saved,  for them, these deceased are exceptions to Tradition.
It doesn't make sense! Yet this is the only irrational basis for their interpretation of Vatican Council II as a break with the past.

 Also for Catholic conservatives and traditionalists, this is the irrational interpretation of the Council.Fr.John Zuhlsdorf (What Does the Prayer Really Say), apologist Robert Sungenis and correspondents of Rorate Caeili make the same error.All based on irratiionality. They assume salvation mentioned in Vatican Council II is explicit for us and so is an exception to the dogma on salvation and Vatican Council II, Ad Gentes 7, which says all need 'faith and baptism' for salvation. The error is unintentional since they do affirm the traditional dogma on salvation but also believe that those saved in invincible ignorance etc are visible to us. This is contrary to the Principle of Non Contradiction.

 

We all agree that a person can be saved in invincible ignorance etc but if these cases are visible or invisible for us is where the mistake is being made unknowingly.

 

They do not realize that this is heresy. Mistakenly they are saying that the defined dogma has exceptions(known or unknown) in the present times.They also misinterpret Vatican Council II (AG 7).

-Lionel Andrades

 

 

 

 

There is no rational basis in Vatican Council II for the liberal interpretation of church or ecumenism

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/04/there-is-no-rational-basis-in-vatican.html#links

Fr.John Zuhlsdorf does not respond once again

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/04/frjohn-zuhlsdorf-does-not-respond-once.html#links

Fr.John Zuhlsdorf does not know how to handle a comment on Lumen Gentium 15

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/04/frjohn-zuhlsdorf-does-not-know-how-to.html#links

Pope celebrates his saint's day with cardinals: 'absurd' to look for Jesus without the Church .

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/04/pope-celebrates-his-saints-day-with.html#links

Is Lumen Gentium 14 and Lumen Gentium 16 really an exception to Pope Francis' statement ?

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/04/is-lumen-gentium-14-and-lumen-gentium.html#links

Archdiocese of Sydney is advertising Mass for homosexuals on their website

http://catholictakingaction.blogspot.com.au/

Cardinal Camillio Ruini is qualified to head the Medugorje Commission ?

He assumes we all can see the dead in Heaven who are exceptions to the traditional understanding on salvation.

The Franciscans at Medugorje have approved Vicka's message on salvation and shelved Marija's on the Poem of the Man God by Maria Valtorta.

 

The head of a commission is not competent who implies we can see the deceased in Heaven, in general.

 

Whatever his decision on Medugorje, for or against, it would be controversial.

 

THE INTERPRETATION OF THE CATECHISM HAS A DIRECT BEARING ON THE MEDUGORJE MESSAGE OF VICKA    

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/the-interpretation-of-catechism-has.html#links 

 

MEDUGORJE CONTRADICTS VATICAN COUNCIL  II

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2011/08/medugorje-contradicts-vatican-council.html#links

THE SSPX HAS TO ACCEPT VATICAN COUNCIL II AS A CONTINUITY WITH TRADITION AND WHAT ABOUT CARDINAL CAMILIO RUINI?

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/the-sspx-has-to-accept-vatican-council.html#links

CDF, CARDINAL CAMILIO RUINI IS IN DOCTRINAL ERROR AND HE IS TO EVALUATE MEDUGORJE DOCTRINALLY

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/cdf-cardinal-camilio-ruini-is-in.html#links

 

CARDINAL RUINI IS IN A CONTROVERSIAL SITUATION: HE ALLEGEDLY CAN SEE THE DEAD IN HEAVEN AND NOW HAS TO DECIDE IF THE MEDUGORJE SEERS CAN REALLY SEE OUR LADY IN HEAVEN

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/cardinal-ruini-is-in-controversial.html#links

-Lionel Andrades

I think Our Lady is appearing in Medugorje in a special way

I think Our Lady is appearing at Medugorje in a special way. Irrespective of the visionaries.

Video: Medugorje is a false apparition

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=C2LA8uBGWyw

Medugorje comment
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/medugorje-comment.html#links

THERE CAN BE TWO INTERPRETATIONS OF THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND CARDINALS WHO USE THE IRRATIONAL ONE ARE TO JUDGE MEDUGORJE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/there-can-be-two-interpretations-of.html#links

THE INTERPRETATION OF THE CATECHISM HAS A DIRECT BEARING ON THE MEDUGORJE MESSAGE OF VICKA

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/the-interpretation-of-catechism-has.html

IF VICKA ASKS OUR LADY AGAIN IF MOST PEOPLE GO TO HELL OR HEAVEN AND IF SHE REPLIES HELL- IT WILL BE THE END OF MEDUGORJE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/if-vicka-asks-our-lady-again-if-most.html#links
CDF, CARDINAL CAMILIO RUINI IS IN DOCTRINAL ERROR AND HE IS TO EVALUATE MEDUGORJE DOCTRINALLY
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/cdf-cardinal-camilio-ruini-is-in.html#links

CARDINALS WHO HAVE CHANGED THE FAITH FOR POLITICAL REASONS ARE TO EVALUATE MEDUGORJE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/cardinals-who-have-changed-faith-for.html#links

If Vatican Council II is in accord with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus them most people do not go to Heaven.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/if-vatican-council-ii-is-in-accord-with.html#links

CARDINAL RUINI IS IN A CONTROVERSIAL SITUATION: HE ALLEGEDLY CAN SEE THE DEAD IN HEAVEN AND NOW HAS TO DECIDE IF THE MEDUGORJE SEERS CAN REALLY SEE OUR LADY IN HEAVEN
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/cardinal-ruini-is-in-controversial.html#links

THE POEM OF THE MAN GOD BY MARIA VALTORTA
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/10/the-poem-of-man-god-by-maria-valtorta.html#links

-Lionel Andrades

Rorate Caeili correspondents also believe that Vatican Council II contradicts Pope Francis

Rorate Caeili correspondents (1) cannot point out the simple facts citing Vatican Council II itself. There are comments on Rorate Caeili regarding Pope Francis’s statement "It is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church". Comments suggest that the pope's statement is contradicted by Vatican Council II with reference to ecumenism  and ecclesiology (understanding of church).

1.

In comments there are quotations from the Council with reference to ecumenism and Rorate correspondents are not citing Ad Gentes 7 (2) which the Church lists under the title Outside the Church No Salvation (CCC 846).

How can you discuss ecumenism or being saved in imperfect communion with the Church(UR) without any reference to Ad Gentes 7?

2.

Then where in the Council is it said that salvation for Christian communities and churches is known in present times ? Where is it said that  we personally can know any such case ?. So how can these cases be exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 unless these cases were physically visible to us on earth ?

3.

We can accept that a Christian can be saved. This is a possibility.However who can name any such person in the present times ? There may be no case in 2013. We do not know.

Here is some correspondence.

D. Harold said...

Surely, no one would seriously hold that Pope Francis thinks the ONLY one to be christian are Roman Catholics! This position would be absurd and con tray to the teachings of Vatican II.

D. Harold said...

when the Pope refers to `christian`he refers not only to Roman Catholics but to ALL those who hve been validly baptized. Valid baptism incorporates them into the church . This is the clear teaching of Vatican II. Read the Decree on Ecumenism for yourself. This would be his maning of the term `Church`!

This quote from the Decree on Ecumenism should set the correct intrepretation of Pope Francis (or as He prefers to be known, as the Bishop of Rome).

"For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church"

Paragraph 3 Decree on Ecumenism (UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO).

Rorate's correspondent Adfero responds without citing Vatican Council II.

Adfero said...

D. Harold, maybe try interpreting the Council through Francis in this one, instead of him through the Council ...

These are just words. Why doesn't Adfero quote Vatican Council II(AG). Mention Ad Gentes  7 and then show how Unitatis Redintigratio (UR) is not an exception to AG 7.

Alexander adulescens said...

"Surely, no one would seriously hold that Pope Francis thinks the ONLY one to be christian are Roman Catholics! This position would be absurd and con tray to the teachings of Vatican II."

No. It would not be absurd.

Yes. It would be contrary to the teachings of Vatican II. And yet, it would demonstrably be in agreement with every papal and conciliar document prior to Vatican II. Add to that the fathers. Add to that the Sacred Scriptures.

Yes it would be contrary to the teachings of Vatican II ?

And Rorate does not show him any text from the Council Since the Rorate correspondents also believe the same.They probably think Vatican Council II contradicts Pope Francis.

Rorate correspondents need to :

1. Cite Vatican Council II, Ad Gentes 7 which the Church lists under the title Outside the Church No Salvation (CCC 846). Then discus ecumenism or being saved in imperfect communion with the Church.

2. Mention that Vatican Council II does not state  that salvation for Christian communities and churches is known in the present times in individual or personal cases . No document of Vatican Council II says  that we personally know any such case or can know any such case . So ask, how can these cases be exceptions to Ad Gentes ? They would be exceptions if they were physically visible to us on earth. They would have to be known to be exceptions to AG 7.

3.We can accept that a Christian can be saved. This is a possibility.However who can name any such person in the present times ? There may be no case in 2013. We do not know.So where is the contradiction in Vatican Council II to AG 7 which says all need Catholic Faith for salvation ?

(See the video in which Michael Voris asks Fr.Jonathan Morris to name some one in the present times, whom he knows, who does not have to convert into the Catholic Church. http://youtu.be/ylVcrYlpOBc  )

-Lionel Andrades
1.

http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=19978542&postID=7776050478658115067&isPopup=true

2.

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. -Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II. (emphasis added)

There is no rational basis in Vatican Council II for the liberal interpretation of church or ecumenism

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/04/there-is-no-rational-basis-in-vatican.html#links

Fr.John Zuhlsdorf does not respond once again

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/04/frjohn-zuhlsdorf-does-not-respond-once.html#links

Fr.John Zuhlsdorf does not know how to handle a comment on Lumen Gentium 15

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/04/frjohn-zuhlsdorf-does-not-know-how-to.html#links

Pope celebrates his saint's day with cardinals: 'absurd' to look for Jesus without the Church .

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/04/pope-celebrates-his-saints-day-with.html#links

Is Lumen Gentium 14 and Lumen Gentium 16 really an exception to Pope Francis' statement ?

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/04/is-lumen-gentium-14-and-lumen-gentium.html#links

There is no rational basis in Vatican Council II for the liberal interpretation of church or ecumenism

There are comments on Fr. John Zuhlsdorf’s blog.It is said that Pope Francis could have made his statement, on the feast of St.George, in an ambiguous way or even in error. It is said that he was not really referring to the ‘hierarchical’ church as St. Ignatius of Loyola called it but ‘church’ , as used by the liberals in a vague way, including all denominations and believers in Jesus.

Those who have commented as such misunderstand Vatican Council II, since in ecumenism there is no ambiguity in the Council. The liberal interpretation has no rational basis for a false ecumenism. Since according to the Council there can only be an ecumenism of return.

If ‘heretics and schismatics’ do not have to return to the Catholic Church then Vatican Council II contradicts itself. It would indicate a false premise is being used in the interpretation of the Council.

Yet the Council is clear and direct in Ad Gentes 7 which has been placed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 846) under the title Outside the Church there is no salvation.

Ad Gentes 7 says all need faith and baptism for salvation.Heretics and schismatics (Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441)  do not have Catholic Faith which is needed to go to Heaven. So the Council supports Pope Francis when he says ‘it is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church’, the Church being necessary to know Jesus and to be saved. We cannot have Jesus without the Church and neither can we separate the Church from the Kingdom (Dominus Iesus et al).

If an ecumenist says Vatican Council II indicates that Christians can be saved in their communities or churches, he is using the familiar false premise, in the interpretation of the Council.

For him, the dead now in Heaven, saved, are physically visible to us on earth. This is the false premise. It implies that we personally know and can see these cases in 2013.So they are known exceptions to Ad Gentes 7, which states all need faith and baptism for salvation.For them this false premise of being able to see the dead-saved, is also a known exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was traditionally known.

So for these ecumenists with a ‘broad’ concept of Church, there are known exceptions in 2013 saved in imperfect communion with the Church (UR), seeds of the word etc.So what is only a possibility is an exception for them. It is on this irrationality that they base their ‘ecumenism of non return’.

Only with an irrational premise can they can create ambiguity and reject the traditional, rational interpretation of Vatican Council II on ecumenism and other religions.

So when Pope Francis says ‘it is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church’, he is referring to the teachings of the Catholic Church before and after Vatican Council II.-Lionel Andrades

1. Norah says:

23 April 2013 at 9:18 pm

As someone who watches The Journey Home on EWTN regularly I can’t believe that one can’t find Jesus outside of the Catholic Church. Those converts to the Faith found Jesus from their parents and in their former ecclesial communities. Because they loved Jesus they came into the fullness of God’s revelation when they entered the Catholic Church. The love those converts actively demonstrate for Jesus puts many Catholics, including myself, to shame.

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/04/pope-francis-it-is-not-possible-to-find-jesus-outside-the-church/#comments

Fr.John Zuhlsdorf does not respond once again

Here is another comment on What Does the Prayer Really Say and Fr.John Zuhlsdorf does not respond.

Supertradmum says:

24 April 2013 at 12:51 am

This is his best sermon yet, and I have read many including the Angelus ones.

Norah, I think you are misunderstanding the teaching of the Church. All grace for those who are not in the Catholic Church comes from the merit of the Catholic Church.

Lionel: True and this does not contradict the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Since these particular cases are invisible for us. If they were visible they would be relevant to the dogma. They would be exceptions.

 If we Catholics are not meriting grace, being excellent Catholics, that affects our Christian brothers and sisters in Christ.

As to finding Jesus, it is not through our own efforts that we find Christ. He finds us, through the Church. Now, those who seek Him, will find Him and those who seek Him sincerely, facing conversion from false teachings regarding the sacraments or contraception, will find Christ in the Catholic Church.

Lionel: It is not enough to find Jesus. One can find Jesus and die in mortal sin.One needs the Sacraments of the Church and the moral and faith teachings of the Catholic Church.

Sadly, even our Evangelical friends believe in many things which are contrary to the Faith, and because of this, they struggle and even finally give up the path of perfection, without which no one sees God at death.

Lionel: Without the Catholic Church our Evangelical friends will not be saved.(Ad Gentes 7).The path of perfection required formal entry into the Church, with 'faith and baptism'(AG 7).

How important it is for us Catholics not only to preach, as our Holy Father just did, but to lead others into the Church, the one, true, holy and apostolic Church.

Lionel:Outside of which there is no salvation.(AG 7)

As to the CCC, there is no contradiction, as again, the grace of conversion is from the Church as well.

Lionel: There is no contradiction between the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was understood by the Church Councils, popes, saints and in our time Vatican Council II.

Here are some references for you.

2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.

Lionel: The Holy Spirit invites all, salvation is open to all.However one must respond.Those who do not respond , who do not enter the Church are on the path to Hell , with Original Sin and mortal sins.One cannot separate Jesus from the Church.

2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men. The saints have always had a lively awareness that their merits were pure grace.

After earth’s exile, I hope to go and enjoy you in the fatherland, but I do not want to lay up merits for heaven. I want to work for your love alone. . . . In the evening of this life, I shall appear before you with empty hands, for I do not ask you, Lord, to count my works. All our justice is blemished in your eyes. I wish, then, to be clothed in your own justice and to receive from your love the eternal possession of yourself.63

IV. CHRISTIAN HOLINESS

2012 “We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him . . . For those whom he fore knew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren. And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.”64

Lionel: It is not enough just to love Jesus. We must follow him in the Catholic Church for salvation. One can never be assured of salvation outside the Catholic Church.

2013 “All Christians in any state or walk of life are called to the fullness of Christian life and to the perfection of charity.”65 All are called to holiness: “Be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Lionel: This perfection is called for in the Catholic Church. They have an obligation to enter the only Church Jesus founded and to seek holiness and perfection.

In order to reach this perfection the faithful should use the strength dealt out to them by Christ’s gift, so that . . . doing the will of the Father in everything, they may wholeheartedly devote themselves to the glory of God and to the service of their neighbor. Thus the holiness of the People of God will grow in fruitful abundance, as is clearly shown in the history of the Church through the lives of so many saints.67

Lionel: It is the will of the Father that all be united in the Catholic Church (CCC 845), the Church is the only Ark of Noah that saves in the flood (CCC 845).

And, there is more in those sections. Pax.

-Lionel Andrades

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/04/pope-francis-it-is-not-possible-to-find-jesus-outside-the-church/#comments

Fr.John Zuhlsdorf does not know how to handle a comment on Lumen Gentium 15

Fr.John Zuhlsdorf on his blog What Does the Prayer Really Say is unable to say that Vatican Council II says outside the Church there is no salvation.He is unable to respond to comments on Lumen Gentium being exceptions to the dogma.Lumen Gentium mentions no exceptions to the pope's statement.

Pope Francis has said that the Church is necessary (Dominus Iesus 20 etc) and this is also been the message of Fr.Zuhlsdorf.

But what about Lumen Gentium 15,16,8 etc ?

Is Pope Francis contradicting Vatican Council II ?

No!

Lumen Gentium 15

“For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate ["hierarchical"?!], celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God. They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power.”

It's simple. Lumen Gentium 15 is referring to the possibility of a Christian being saved in his community or church but LG 15 is not saying that these cases are known to us and so are an exception.It is referring only to a possibility and not an exception. It cannot be an exception since these cases are invisible for us.If we knew any particular case then it would be an exception to the dogma on salvation or to Ad Gentes 7 which says all need 'faith and baptism' for salvation.Ad Gentes 7 is listed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church under the title Outside the Church No Salvation (CCC 846)

So Lumen Gentium 15 cannot be an exception to Pope Francis' statement.It would be irrational to claim that it is an exception.

For Fr.John Zuhlsdorf and so many  traditionalists LG 15,16,8 etc are visible to us and so are exceptions to the traditional teaching on other Christians and non Catholics.So they are critical of Vatican Council II and assume there are ambiguities where there are none.

-Lionel Andrades

Venerator Sti Lot says:

23 April 2013 at 12:41 pm

How does, or would, the Holy Father dilate upon this in the specific context of Lumen gentium 15 ? (I think especially of, “For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate ["hierarchical"?!], celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God. They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power.”)

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/04/pope-francis-it-is-not-possible-to-find-jesus-outside-the-church/#comments



Pope celebrates his saint's day with cardinals: 'absurd' to look for Jesus without the Church .
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/04/pope-celebrates-his-saints-day-with.html#links

Is Lumen Gentium 14 and Lumen Gentium 16 really an exception to Pope Francis' statement ?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/04/is-lumen-gentium-14-and-lumen-gentium.html#links

Pope celebrates his saint's day with cardinals: 'absurd' to look for Jesus without the Church

http://youtu.be/Jed_7aRz0Gk

Is Lumen Gentium 14 and Lumen Gentium 16 really an exception to Pope Francis' statement ?

On Fr.John Zuhlsdorf's blog there have been comments on  Pope Francis statement on the feast of St.George. He said  “it is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church”.

The comments on his blog What Does the Prayer Really Say ?  refer to Lumen Gentium 14 and 16.Comments consider LG 14 and LG 16  to be exceptions to the Holy Father's statement.

Fr.Z is not expected to answer them.Since he too assumes that those saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire are physically visible to us and so they are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

LG 14 and 16 are not exceptions to the pope's statement“it is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church” since they do not contradict Ad Gentes 7 which says all need 'faith and baptism' for salvation.

Vatican Council II (AG 7)is saying all need to know Jesus and know the Catholic Faith and receive the baptism of water to go to heaven and avoid Hell.Members of Christians communities and the Orthodox Churches do not have Catholic Faith. So Pope Francis' statement is in agreement with Vatican Council II.

LG 14 and LG 16 refer to invisible-for- us cases who are known only to God. If they were visible to us, seen in the flesh, then they would be exceptions to AG 7. So there are no exceptions in 2013 to AG 7 and Pope Francis' statement.Vatican Council II is traditional on the issue of other religions and ecumenism and there is no ambiguity.-Lionel Andrades

Jeannie_C says:

23 April 2013 at 4:09 pm

Venerator Sti Lot, read Lumen Gentium 14: “…..Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.” Also – LG 16: “Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation.”

I understand the above from Lumen Gentium, as well as the quotation you provide, which is the quotation that fits in between the two I cite to mean that those who are ignorant of Christ, or who are born into other Christian faith communities may also be saved, but – here’s the kicker – once they become aware that the R.C. Church is the original Church founded by Christ upon Peter, they are bound to come into the fold, otherwise there is no salvation for them. These explanations are found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 820 and onward discussing ecumenism and unity.

Here’s the problem I have with ecumenism and keep bumping up against it – most who belong to faith communities separated from the R.C. Church believe that ecumenism means finding a middle ground where we can meet, means our giving up some of our beliefs and core traditions, in short our (R.C.) becoming less and becoming more like them. I don’t believe ecumenism translates into relativism, rather it means finding a middle ground in which to engage discussion, but the end goal is to bring the schismatics and heretics back to Christ’s church. Nothing less, and it is our mandate as Roman Catholics to evangelize protestants as well as those who don’t know Christ.

Of course, I’m not Pope Francis and can’t speak for him, but I don’t believe he would see our faith watered down in order to accommodate those outside the church, but does see those outside the church who have at least some faith and understanding as being on the right track. Again, it is our responsibility to pull them in.(emphasis added)

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/04/pope-francis-it-is-not-possible-to-find-jesus-outside-the-church/#comments

Australian priest approves Mass for homosexuals

 

He writes 'traditional sexual ethics has dominated church teaching about heterosexual relationships and marriage'. He makes no mention of mortal sin and Hell.

 

The priest says on his website that 'Those doing theology with the insight of the stories of lesbian and gay Catholics and modern science suggest such areas as intimacy, friendship, faithful love and personal growth might be a gift to the church and indeed the world.'. So he could be giving them the Eucharist at Mass.

He says Scripture does not damn homosexuality.

-Lionel Andrades 

http://petermaher.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/newtown-parish-responds-to-video.html?m=1

Longest running Gay Mass in the world in Sydney Archdiocese - Michael Voris

longest running so-called Gay Mass in the world happens right here in the Archdiocese of Sydney-Michael Voris
For the record, on THIS return trip he declined an opportunity to sit down with us on camera and talk with us about the Gay Mass. We also had a pleasant exchange via email with one of the auxiliary bishops who told us .. unlike the pastor .. that he understood our love and concern for the faith.
So .. a year later what’s changed? Well, if you go to the archdiocese of Sydney’s website .. you can see what’s changed. Unfortunately, it isn’t a good change.
First of all, after having been off the website for a few years .. St. Joseph’s in Newtown schedule of activities is back up.
Included .. a fundraising effort sponsored by an organization known as Acceptance – an openly pro-gay lifestyle group which celebrates homosexuality as a wonderful thing.
Which can’t be viewed as surprising considering that Fr. Peter Maher, the pastor at Newtown St. Joseph’s has posted on his blog that he says homosexuality is a gift from God.
He also goes through the usual blather about the scriptures have all been misunderstood   and homosexuality is perfectly acceptable to God – again, he says a GIFT. We’ve attached a link to his blog so you can read for yourself.
The group which is heavily involved in these Friday night Masses is called Acceptance as we mentioned earlier. This group is little else than a gay social club promoting the gay culture with a warped religious overtone...-Michael Voris

 http://youtu.be/fYyRZaQN2UE

“It is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church”-Pope Francis

Pope: Mass on Feast of St. George

2013-04-23 Vatican Radio

(Vatican Radio) “It is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church”: this was Pope Francis’ message as he marked his name day, the Feast of St. George, this Tuesday celebrating Mass in the Pauline Chapel with the Cardinals present in Rome. Emer McCarthy reports:
In his homily, the Pope thanked the cardinals for coming to concelebrate with him: "Thank you - he said - because I really feel welcomed by you". Commenting on the readings of the day, the Holy Father highlighted three aspects of the Church: Its missionary activity, born of persecution; the fact that it is a Mother Church which gifts us the faith that is our identity and that you cannot find Jesus outside of the Church; the joy of belonging to the Church bringing Jesus to others. In short the joy of being an evangelizer:
Below we publish a Vatican Radio transcript and translation of the Holy Father’s Homily for Mass with the Cardinals in the Pauline Chapel.
I thank His Eminence, the Cardinal Dean, for his words: thank you very much, Your Eminence, thank you.
I also thank all of you who wanted to come today: Thank you. Because I feel welcomed by you. Thank you. I feel good with you, and I like that.
The [first] reading today makes me think that the missionary expansion of the Church began precisely at a time of persecution, and these Christians went as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, and proclaimed the Word. They had this apostolic fervor within them, and that is how the faith spread! Some, people of Cyprus and Cyrene - not these, but others who had become Christians - went to Antioch and began to speak to the Greeks too. It was a further step. And this is how the Church moved forward. Whose was this initiative to speak to the Greeks? This was not clear to anyone but the Jews. But ... it was the Holy Spirit, the One who prompted them ever forward ... But some in Jerusalem, when they heard this, became 'nervous and sent Barnabas on an "apostolic visitation": perhaps, with a little sense of humor we could say that this was the theological beginning of the Doctrine of the Faith: this apostolic visit by Barnabas. He saw, and he saw that things were going well.
And so the Church was a Mother, the Mother of more children, of many children. It became more and more of a Mother. A Mother who gives us the faith, a Mother who gives us an identity. But the Christian identity is not an identity card: Christian identity is belonging to the Church, because all of these belonged to the Church, the Mother Church. Because it is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church. The great Paul VI said: "Wanting to live with Jesus without the Church, following Jesus outside of the Church, loving Jesus without the Church is an absurd dichotomy." And the Mother Church that gives us Jesus gives us our identity that is not only a seal, it is a belonging. Identity means belonging. This belonging to the Church is beautiful.And the third idea comes to my mind - the first was the explosion of missionary activity; the second, the Mother Church - and the third, that when Barnabas saw that crowd - the text says: " And a large number of people was added to the Lord" - when he saw those crowds, he experienced joy. " When he arrived and saw the grace of God, he rejoiced ": his is the joy of the evangelizer. It was, as Paul VI said, "the sweet and comforting joy of evangelizing." And this joy begins with a persecution, with great sadness, and ends with joy. And so the Church goes forward, as one Saint says - I do not remember which one, here - "amid the persecutions of the world and the consolations of the Lord." And thus is the life of the Church. If we want to travel a little along the road of worldliness, negotiating with the world - as did the Maccabees, who were tempted, at that time - we will never have the consolation of the Lord. And if we seek only consolation, it will be a superficial consolation, not that of the Lord: a human consolation. The Church's journey always takes place between the Cross and the Resurrection, amid the persecutions and the consolations of the Lord. And this is the path: those who go down this road are not mistaken.
Let us think today about the missionary activity of the Church: these [people] came out of themselves to go forth. Even those who had the courage to proclaim Jesus to the Greeks, an almost scandalous thing at that time. Think of this Mother Church that grows, grows with new children to whom She gives the identity of the faith, because you cannot believe in Jesus without the Church. Jesus Himself says in the Gospel: " But you do not believe, because you are not among my sheep." If we are not "sheep of Jesus," faith does not some to us. It is a rosewater faith, a faith without substance. And let us think of the consolation that Barnabas felt, which is "the sweet and comforting joy of evangelizing." And let us ask the Lord for this "parresia", this apostolic fervor that impels us to move forward, as brothers, all of us forward! Forward, bringing the name of Jesus in the bosom of Holy Mother Church, and, as St. Ignatius said, "hierarchical and Catholic." So be it.

(emphasis added)
http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-mass-on-feast-of-st-george-full-text