Saturday, July 4, 2015

This is the ecclesiology of the new Salesian Commissar of the Franciscans of the Immaculate, Fr.Sabino Arditio

Comments from the blog Eponymous Flower
  1. Huh?

    Lionel:The Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate are being forced to accept the new ecclesiology to offer the Traditional Latin Mass ? How to understand this? Here's how:
  2. 1.
    1. Cardinal Wilfrid Napier, Bishop Donald Sanborn and Fr.Anthony Cekada recently agreed that we cannot physically and personally see people in Heaven in the present times. In 2015 the dead for us now saved in Heaven are invisible.
    2. In the past Archbishop Thomas Gullickson,  Fr.S. Visintin, Dean of Theology , St. Anselm University, Rome and John Martignoni, the  American apologist have said the same.
    3. This is common knowledge. It is something obvious.
    4. People in Heaven are known only to God. In the present times human beings cannot see them.
    5. ________________________
    6. 2.
    7. So it means we cannot see people in Heaven, in the present times, saved in invincible ignorance, the baptism of desire , good and holy things in other religions(NA2), seeds of the Word(AG11) etc.We cannot see them in Heaven if they are saved with the baptism of water or allegedly without the baptism of water.In faith we accept that the saints are in Heaven but physically, personally we cannot see them with the naked eye.
    8. So it is clear that we humans cannot see people face to face in Heaven while we are on earth.We cannot see them saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire ( Letter of the Holy Office 1949) .Neither can we see them  saved in imperfect communion with the Church (UR3), elements of sanctification and truith(LG 8) and other examples from Vatican Council II. All these cases are invisible for us human beings.
    9. ___________________________
    10. 3.
    11. The Church has always taught that there is no salvation outside the Church.So how could Pope Pius XII, Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani and Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani, for example, know there was salvation outside the Church?
    12. How could there be exceptions to Fr.Leonard Feeney's 'rigorist intepretation' of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus?
    13. ___________________________
    14. Risultati immagini per Photo of Fr.Stefano Mannelli
    15. Conclusion: We know that since the time of Pope Pius XII the Catholic Church has accepted that there are exceptions  to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Fr.Leonard Feeney is condemned and Pope Pius XII is praised.
    16. So the 'old ecclesiology' with extra ecclesiam nulla salus is no more there any more we have a new ecclesiology in which LG 16, UR 3, NA 2 etc refer to explicit, seen in the flesh exceptions to the 'old' extra ecclesiam nulla salus.They would have to be explicit and known in the present times to be exceptions. Implicit, invisible for us cases in the present times cannot be exceptions to all needing to formally enter the Catholic Church with faith and baptism.
    17. So the new theology, the new ecclesiology is that there are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus. There are many such exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II (LG 16 etc).
    18. This is the ecclesiology of the new Salesian Commissar of the Franciscans of the Immaculate, Fr.Sabino Arditio.He would infer that the dead-saved now in Heaven are visible exceptions in the present times to the old extra ecclesiam nulla salus.He accepts the new ecclesiology and would expect the same of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate many of whom affirm the old extra  ecclesiam nulla salus.   With me it is different. I cannot see the dead-saved. So Vatican Council II does not  contradict the rigorist interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Fr.Leonard Feeney was correct and Pope Pius XII made an objective mistake.The pope made an innocent but objective mistake and no pope since then has corrected it.The magisterium made a factual error. When they correct it the pre and post 1949 magisterium will be in harmony. Since the contemporary  magisterium must not be a discontinuity with the centuries old magisterium. It would be a mistake-Lionel Andrades

If Pope Francis approves of it. He will issue a Syllabus of Errors in which we continue to intepret Vatican Council II with LG 16 an exception to EENS ?

Comments from the Eucharistandmission blogpost 
We do not know of a BOB and BOD exception in the present times. Here we can all agree since it is common knowledge
We can not assume that Bishop Schneider knows all the causes


Who does( know all the causes) to issue a Syllabus?

or each and every specific confusion, error and wrong catechesis that has been caused by rampant liberal individualism on contradicting many issues of deviating from sound catechesis. I salute him for suggesting that this mass confusion must be addressed by the Pontiff in conjunction with those orthodox wise clerics who would identify the issues to remedy.

Pope Francis or Pope Benedict both who support Marchettiism and reject Feeneyism and interpret Vatican Council II with Marchetti's irrational inference, in which LG 16 is an explicit exception to EENS?

Of course this must be done with the help and guidance of the Holy Ghost.

Is the Holy Spirit guiding the Church to accept irrational Marchettiism today?

That is why I believe a world wide petition for a syllabus is a must.

Assuming Pope Francis approves of it. He will issue a Syllabus in which we continue to intepret Vatican Council II in which LG 16 is an exception to EENS ?

This will not be solved by a blog site. It runs too deep and has endured for too many decades.

One blog site has identified the interpretation of Vatican Council II with Marchettiism and presented Feeneyism ( no visible exceptions to EENS in the present times) as an alternative.
Do you think that Pope Francis and the Jewish left will approve it ?
Not likely.
Can Church for example say that Pope Pius XII made an objective mistake and Fr.Leonard Feeney was correct according to Tradition. The magisterium made a factual error in 1949 ? Not likely.
Could the MICM communities say that their bishops are wrong?...
-Lionel Andrades

When Bishop Schneider says a Syllabus of Errors on VC2 is needed it is presumed that he knows the cause of the all the confusion in VC2