eucharistandmission: Feb 7, 2021

Sunday, February 7, 2021

Pope Francis: "Vatican II is the Magisterium" : Affirm the Council in harmony with Tradition.We are not obliged to use a false premise to interpret LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc. Endorse the Council and also the Athanasius Creed. This is interpreting Vatican Council II with the hermeneutic of continuity with Tradition

Dr.Taylor Marshall admits that he does not have the answer on Vatican Council II after Pope Francis said that it was obligatory to accept the Council as interpreted by the present popes.

Marshall puts out seven questions.

It is clear that Taylor Marshall is confused , like numerous Catholics, since he does not identify the false premise.

If the popes are using a false premise to interpret Vatican Council II and you reason with that false premise, then your conclusion will be non traditional and irrational. It will be heretical.

Dr.Taylor Marshall is unable to interpret the Council without the false premise. But with the false premise there is a break with Tradition and he does not like it. With the false premise there is a break with Tradition and Pope Francis and Pope Benedict want it. The 'magistertium' does not want to interpret the Council in harmony with St.Robert Bellarmine, St. Francis Xavier and St. Ignatius of Loyola on there being no salvation outside the Church.It is one magisterium against another.

But for the popes, interpreting Vatican Council II with the false premise, there is 'a new revelation' in the Catholic Church. There is 'a development of doctrine' according to the text of the Council interpreted irrationally. So they can put aside the past Magisterium of the Church. This is how they reason.

Here are the seven questions I try to respond to without being weighed down with the false premise and inference.

1.Does Vatican Council II fall under the extraordinary or ordinary Magisterium ?

It falls under the Ordinary Magisterium for me.

2.Does Vatican Council II bear the mark of infallibility ?

No. Since there is an objective error in the text. The Council Fathers, at least some of them, used a false premise to interpret the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and so projected objective exceptions. So the Council suggests, for Pope Francis and Pope Benedict, that there is salvation outside the Church.

The Council Fathers picked up the error from the Letter of the Holy Office 1949. It assumed unknown cases of the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance were objective exceptions to traditional EENS. This is also the erroneous conclusion of Pope Benedict and Cardinal Ladaria.This is not Catholic philosophy.

3.If Latin is not used does one not stand with the Church?

If Latin is used or not used one still stands with the Church. Pope Francis has approved the Latin Mass.However it is the Latin Mass with the new ecclesiology based upon the false premise. It is the same with the Novus Ordo Mass.

4.If Gregorian chant is not used does one stand with the Church?

Again this does not make a difference. However if Gregorian chant is not used or used and the priest at Mass and the congregation interpret Vatican Council II without the false premise, then this is a big "NO, NO" for Pope Francis.

This would not be being in step with the 'magisterium' of Pope Francis and Pope Benedict, as approved by the Left.

5.Must I believe Vatican statements on Hindus?

Again it depends upon how you interpret Vatican Council II. If all need faith and baptism for salvation( AG 7) and LG 8, LG 14, LG 16 etc are not objective exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 and extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) then all Hindus need to convert into the Church, with faith and baptism to avoid Hell. This is the interpretation of th dogma no salvation outside the Church as approved by the past Magisterium before 1930.It is the salvation doctrine which was the basis for traditional Catholic Mission.All non Catholics are oriented to Hell without faith and baptism and there are no known exceptions.So the Council has the same message when LG 8 etc are not objective exceptions to EENS.

But this would not be acceptable for Pope Francis.He would call it triumphalism.With the false premise there is no triumphalism.

For Pope Francis LG 8, LG 14, LG 16 are not hypothetical and speculative only but objective examples of salvation outside the Catholic Church. Irrational? But this is the common false premise that was there even before the pontificate of Pope Francis.

6. Must I believe Vatican Council II statement on Buddhists?

Again there is no fixed Vatican Council II statement on Buddhists. Pope Francis on Jan 30 recognised that there were different interpretations of the Council.

There can be good and holy things in other religions. The Holy Spirit is not restricted to the Catholic Church. However God has chosen to restrict salvation to the Catholic Church(CCC 845,846 etc).

So while Nostra Aetate mentions the good things in other religions it does not state that there are practical exceptions to the traditional teaching on outside the Church there is no salvation.

So all need faith and baptism for salvation(AG 7), all need to be members of the Catholic Church for salvation( Council of Florence 1441), all need to be Catholic to avoid Hell ( Athanasius Creed) and there is no text in Vatican Council II which puts forward exceptions, in 2021.Practically we cannot know of any exception and the Council cannot indicate any.

8.Must I believe Vatican Council II statement on other religions?

Yes. The Council says other religions have good and holy things(NA 2), there are elements of sanctification and truth(LG 8), there is that one ray of truth that enlightens all men(NA 2), there are those who are in invincible ignorance and who are following their conscience(LG 16) - but,these are all theoretical cases in 1965-2021 and all need faith and baptism for salvation(AG 7, EENS etc). So theoretically salvation is possible in other religions but practically all need to be Catholic with faith and baptism to avoid Hell and go to Heaven. When Vatican Council II is interpreted in this way, why should the Council be a problem ?

Affirm the Council in harmony with Tradition.We are not obliged to use a false premise to interpret LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc.

Endorse the Council and also the Athanasius Creed. This is interpreting Vatican Council II with the hermeneutic of continuity with Tradition.There is no rupture with the past popes. -Lionel Andrades

Pope Francis on Jan 30 said that there could only be one official interpretation of Vatican Council II which is acceptable. He meant that the Council had to be interpreted by confusing what is hypothetical as being objective, invisible as being visible, subjective as being physically -seen and implicit as being explicit.

Pope Francis on Jan 30 said that there could only be one official interpretation of Vatican Council II which is acceptable. He meant that the Council had to be interpreted by confusing what is hypothetical as being objective, invisible as being visible, subjective as being physically -seen and implicit as being explicit.

Since if LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc are theoretical and speculative cases only in 2021, they cannot be practical exceptions to 16th century EENS.They could not be exceptions to Feeneyite EENS. They could not be exceptions to EENS according to the Church Fathers, who did not project exceptions.

According to the Diocese of Manchester,USA the religious community Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary at the St. Benedict Center are not legally Catholic since they hold the strict interpretation of EENS and do not project BOD, BOB and I.I as exceptions- but then neither did St. Thomas Aquinas , St.Dominic, St. Francis Xavier and St. Ignatius of Loyola, St. Augustine and St.Francis of Assisi.They are all technically, no more Catholic for Pope Francis? - Lionel Andrades

Without the false premise there can be Traditional Catechesis since theologically there is no known salvation outside the Church and so this makes the New Ecclesiology, New Ecumenism, New Theology, New Evangelisation etc obsolete

Without the false premise there can be Traditional Catechesis since theologically there is no known salvation outside the Church and so this makes the New Ecclesiology, New Ecumenism, New Theology, New Evangelisation etc obsolete. - Lionel Andrades

St.Thomas Aquinas was a Feeneyite. He affirmed the strict interpretation of EENS and did not say that the man in the forest in invincible ignorance, to whom God would send a preacher, since he was to be saved, was a personally known person. It was a hypothetical case, or course. So EENS did not have exceptions for Aquinas

St.Thomas Aquinas was a Feeneyite. He affirmed the strict interpretation of EENS and did not say that the man in the forest in invincible ignorance, to whom God would send a preacher, since he was to be saved, was a personally known person. It was a hypothetical case, or course. So EENS did not have exceptions for Aquinas. -Lionel Andrades

The center right political parties in Italy, whose members are mostly Catholic, could ask the present two popes to interpret Vatican Council II without the false premise, even if it means legally they will not be Catholic

The center right political parties in Italy, whose members are mostly Catholic, could ask the present two popes to interpret Vatican Council II without the false premise, even if it means legally they will not be Catholic. - Lionel Andrades

Matteo Salvini could ask Pope Francis to interpret Vatican Council II without the false premise

Matteo Salvini could ask Pope Francis to interpret Vatican Council II without the false premise. -Lionel Andrades

This approach of identifying the false premise will strengthen the faith of many Catholics who are now confused.It will also increase the Church's traditional Mission drive in some Catholic areas

This approach of identifying the false premise will strengthen the faith of many Catholics who are now confused.It will also increase the Church's traditional Mission drive in some Catholic areas. -Lionel Andrades

Traditional Catechesis can also be done by those who attend the Novus Ordo Mass. They simply do not interpret Magisterial documents with the false premise. No exceptions then emerge to the past exclusivist ecclesiology, no salvation outside the Church and traditional ecclesiocentrism

Traditional Catechesis can also be done by those who attend the Novus Ordo Mass. They simply do not interpret Magisterial documents with the false premise. No exceptions then emerge to the past exclusivist ecclesiology, no salvation outside the Church and traditional ecclesiocentrism. - Lionel Andrades

If there are two ways to interpret Vatican Council II why should I choose the irrational option ?

If there are two ways to interpret Vatican Council II why should I choose the irrational option ?

If there are two ways to interpret the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus why should I choose the false premise ?

If there are two ways to interpret the Catechisms why should I choose the unethical option ?

If there are two ways to interpret the Creeds why should I choose the dishonest one?

If there are two ways to be Church then why should I not choose the traditional, rational and Catholic one ? -Lionel Andrades

CNA report deceptive : there are no objective exceptions to Feeneyite EENS

1. 'actual membership can, in special circumstances, be replaced by a desire, even implicit, for this membership'.

Lionel: This refers to a hypothetical case. For CNA to suggest that these hypothetical cases, known only to God are objective examples of salvation and practical exceptions to Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus, is deceptive. Brother Andre Marie accepts them as only theoretical and speculative cases.They obviously cannot be any thing else.

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2.In October 2016 the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith wrote to Brother Andre Marie, leader of the group based in Richmond, that the position he retains - that articles from the Catechism of the Catholic Church and Dominus Iesus on the principle ‘outside the Church there is no salvation’ have been given different readings that are contrary to one another, and it is permissible to hold the position that these articles contradict previous Church teaching - is unacceptable.

Lionel: If the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and invincible ignorance mentioned in the Catechisms are considered hypothetical and speculative only in 1965-2021 then they do not contradict previous Church teachings on there being exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church. The Diocese and the CDF reject exclusive salvation. So they imply that there are objective exceptions. This is irrational, non traditional. To continue with this line of thinking even after being informed would be unethical.

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3. It added that documents signed by the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart in April and July 2009, after which the then-bishop had provided for a priest to say Mass at their property, were null and void.

Lionel :The community at the St.Benedict Center in New Hampshire also affirmed the Athanasius Creed which the members of the CDF and the Curia are not willing to do. Since it says outside the Church there is no salvation.-Lionel Andrades

https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2021/02/04/vatican-upholds-prohibitions-placed-on-feeneyite-group-by-diocese-in-new-

Mic'd Up — The One True Faith

The Vortex — One and True

Rev.Georges de Laire, Judicial Vicar of the Diocese of Manchester, USA and the bishop and curia of the diocese, are refusing in public to interpret Vatican Council II without the false premise and inference, which creates harmony with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as interpreted by the Apostles, Church Fathers and Medieval Fathers of the Catholic Church. They choose to use the fake premise to create a rupture with Catholic Tradition. If they do not use the false premise, they would be declared 'legally not Catholic', by the Left

Rev.Georges de Laire, Judicial Vicar of the Diocese of Manchester, USA and the bishop and Curia of the diocese, are refusing in public to interpret Vatican Council II without the false premise and inference, which creates harmony with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as interpreted by the Apostles, Church Fathers and Medieval Fathers of the Catholic Church. They choose to use the fake premise to create a rupture with Catholic Tradition.

If they do not use the false premise, they would be declared 'legally not Catholic', by the Left. - Lionel Andrades

EBRUARY 6, 2021

The St. Benedict Center is not using a false premise to interpret Magisterial documents like the CDF and Rev. de Laire : Their use of the false premise is unethical.It is a public lie and they are forcing it upon all Catholics in New Hampshire

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/02/the-st-benedict-center-is-not-using.html

FEBRUARY 6, 2021

For Fr. Georges de Laire, Judicial Vicar of the Diocese of Manchester, USA , invisible cases mentioned in the Catechism of the Catholic Church ( 847-848) are objective examples of salvation outside the Catholic Church This is outside the pale. This is not the common reality of the human species

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/02/for-fr-georges-de-laire-judicial-vicar.html

Adorazione Eucaristica - Međugorje - Sabato 6 Febbraio 2021 - fra Renato...

Still 'luv it'

-Lionel Andrades

JANUARY 9, 2021

Vatican Council II is a missionary Council. It is Feeneyite

Vatican Council II is a missionary Council. It is Feeneyite. - Lionel Andrades

MAY 4, 2019

Pope Francis in good conscience could affirm Vatican Council II ( Feeneyite) and reject Vatican Council II( Cushingite)

Image result for Recent photo of Pope Francis and Benedict together

Pope Francis has said that there was a genocide in Turkey and over 1.5 million Armenian Christians were killed.What if he says that Vatican Council II (Cushingite) was also a mistake and the Church can no longer hold this position.However we continue to have fraternal relations with all people and we respect all people.

We oppose Anti-Semitism but affirm our Catholic beliefs and expect others to respect them too.

According to Vatican Council II ( Feeneyite) all need faith and baptism for salvation(AG 7, LG 14) and the Council has not mentioned any exceptions to the traditional interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).

The Jesuit Fr. Leonard Feeney was correct and the Holy Office 1949 made an objective mistake. There are no known cases of the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and being saved in invincible ignorance, within or outside the Church, in our human reality.

Sine 1965 false doctrines were created, in a new and false church within the true Catholic Church. These new doctrines were built upon a new theology which said outside the Church there is salvation ; there is personally known salvation outside the Church.

How can rational and responsible adults who want to be honest, continue to say invisible cases of LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc, are physically visible and personally known examples of salvation outside the Church? This is not possible for a pope.

Pope Francis in good conscience could affirm Vatican Council II ( Feeneyite) and reject Vatican Council II( Cushingite).-Lionel Andrades