Thursday, September 22, 2016

'It’s very real - people do get demonised': inside the suburban exorcisms in present-day Australia

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/thefeed/article/2016/09/21/its-very-real-people-do-get-demonised-inside-suburban-exorcisms-present-day



Elise on her experience behind the scenes of The Feed's special investigation, Inner Demons: Suburban Exorcists. Watch the special investigation.

The 'reputable Catholic websites' make four errors in the interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Vatican Council II : I avoid them

Comments from Gloria TV.
Holy Cannoli
Lionel L. Andrades wrote:
There is no known salvation outside the Church...
and
Non Catholics are on the way to Hell and the pope does not tell them this...
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These are just 2 of the numerous lies, distortions and half-truths that fill each and every post
Lionel L. Andrades makes.
.
1)
Lionel L. Andrades has no idea what is the meaning of EENS or its implications.

2)
Lionel L. Andrades is filled with an overwhelming negativity that permeates each and everything he writes.

3)
Lionel L. Andrades is a boring, chronic complainer who thinks he knows but obviously is lacking in the true teachings of the Catholic Church.
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Whether
Lionel L. Andrades reads the following or not is irrelevant to me. But, for those honest and faithful Catholics (with a sincere earnestness to learn the truth) it is posted for their behalf. The links provided are from reputable Catholic websites and not merely form a 'fly-by night' blog that has absolutely no Catholic heritage such as the miserable, filled with errors and dangerous to the faith rambling, poorly written blog of Lionel L. Andrades.
The Catholic Church recognizes that God does not condemn those who are innocently ignorant of the truth about his offer of salvation. What about those millions who lived before Jesus Christ or before the establighment of the Church? And what about those people who living today who have never heard and will never hear the name of Jesus Christ? Narrow minded individuals like Lionel L. Andrades condemns them all to hell.
.
You see, according to narrow minded “catholic pretenders” like
Lionel L. Andrades, a loving Creator and maker of all things, deliberately created creatures who, by His infinite wisdom, knew they could never possibly be aware of Jesus Christ (these people are invincibly (innocently) ignorant of Christ). However, according to Lionel L. Andrades our loving God created them anyway for the sole purpose of their being condemned to hell for eternity.
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Would a loving God do such a thing? Does that sound patently absurd? Of course it's absurd. That's why absurd individuals proudly proclaim it despite the idea has been condemned by the Magisterium. And, most importantly, that's why the Church doesn't teach it.
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Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation. (CCC 847)
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What "No Salvation Outside the Church" Means
.Outside The Church There Is No Salvation

WITH COMMENTS

Holy Cannoli
Lionel L. Andrades wrote:
There is no known salvation outside the Church...
and
Non Catholics are on the way to Hell and the pope does not tell them this...
.
These are just 2 of the numerous lies, distortions and half-truths that fill each and every post Lionel L. Andrades makes.
Lionel:
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. -Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II
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1) Lionel L. Andrades has no idea what is the meaning of EENS or its implications.

Lionel:
“Outside the Church there is no salvation” (extra ecclesiam nulla salus) is a doctrine of the Catholic Faith that was taught By Jesus Christ to His Apostles, preached by the Fathers, defined by popes and councils and piously believed by the faithful in every age of the Church. Here is how the Popes defined it:
“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)

“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)
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2) Lionel L. Andrades is filled with an overwhelming negativity that permeates each and everything he writes.
Lionel:
The dogma defined by three Church Councils quoted above says outside the Church there is no salvation.We know most people die outside the Church.
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3) Lionel L. Andrades is a boring, chronic complainer who thinks he knows but obviously is lacking in the true teachings of the Catholic Church.
Lionel: 
I have quoted Vatican Council II and the three Church Councils on extra ecclesiam nulla salus. So this is not a personal view.It is the teaching of the Catholic Church before and after Vatican Council II according to magisterial documents, which are interpreted in harmony with Tradition and without an irrational premise and conclusion.
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Whether Lionel L. Andrades reads the following or not is irrelevant to me. But, for those honest and faithful Catholics (with a sincere earnestness to learn the truth) it is posted for their behalf. The links provided are from reputable Catholic websites and not merely form a 'fly-by night' blog that has absolutely no Catholic heritage such as the miserable, filled with errors and dangerous to the faith rambling, poorly written blog of Lionel L. Andrades.
Lionel:
 The 'reputable Catholic websites' make the following four errors, which I have mentioned on a previous post.
There can only be a conflict between Traditionalists and Modernists over Vatican Council II when it is wrongly assumed :-
1.Invisible cases are visible in the present times ( 1960-2016).
2.Lumen Gentium 16 ( invincible ignorance) and Lumen Gentium 14 ( baptism of desire) refer to a visible case.
3.Vatican Council II contradicts the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus since Lumen Gentium 16 etc are visible exceptions to the dogma.
4.The dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus has exceptions. They are the baptism of desire and blood and being saved in invincible ignorance, all without the baptism of water.
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The Catholic Church recognizes that God does not condemn those who are innocently ignorant of the truth about his offer of salvation.
Lionel:
In other words :-

1.Invisible cases are visible in the present times ( 1960-2016).Those 'who are innocently ignorant of the truth are unknown cases for us.2.Lumen Gentium 16 ( invincible ignorance) and Lumen Gentium 14 ( baptism of desire) refer to a visible case.So Lumen Gentium 14 (innocently ignorant of the truth) refers to a known exceptions to the dogma EENS, for you.
3.Vatican Council II contradicts the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus since Lumen Gentium 16 etc are visible exceptions to the dogma.
4.The dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus has exceptions. They are  being saved in invincible ignorance, all without the baptism of water.
Have you noticed in the mistake in the interpretation? This is how you  too interpret 'those who are innocently ignorant of the truth about his offer of salvation.'

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What about those millions who lived before Jesus Christ or before the establishment of the Church?
Lionel: The good were taken to Heaven after the Resurrection of  Jesus Christ.Before the coming of Jesus Christ they had to wait in 'Abraham's bosom'.
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And what about those people who living today who have never heard and will never hear the name of Jesus Christ?
Lionel:
They are on the way to Hell according to Vatican Council II and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus quoted above.In the sense every one on earth needs to be a Catholic for salvation.And any way you do not know of any specific case of someone who is an exception.


The Narrow Gate
Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat.  How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it! - (Luke 13:22-30) 

Enter through the narrow gate : The Catholic Church is the narrow gate http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/08/the-gospel-reading-tomorrow-says-enter.html

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Narrow minded individuals like Lionel L. Andrades condemns them all to hell.
Lionel:
Jesus in the Bible condemns them to Hell ( John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Luke 13:22-30). The Church inspired by the Holy Spirit says they are oriented to Hell if they do not formally convert into the Catholic Church. This is not a personal theory of mine.
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.
You see, according to narrow minded “catholic pretenders” like Lionel L. Andrades, a loving Creator and maker of all things, deliberately created creatures who, by His infinite wisdom, knew they could never possibly be aware of Jesus Christ (these people are invincibly (innocently) ignorant of Christ).
Lionel:
 Salvation is open to all.All in potential can go to Heaven. However to receive this salvation all need to respond by entering the Catholic Church and living the traditional  teachings of the Catholic Church. (Dominus Iesus 20 etc).
_______________________________________

 However, according to Lionel L. Andrades our loving God created them anyway for the sole purpose of their being condemned to hell for eternity.
Lionel:
They can all be saved if they accept Jesus Christ in the Catholic Church and live the teachings of this Church outside of which there is no salvation.There is no known salvation. There are no known cases of persons saved outside the Catholic Church in invincible ignorance and without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church. To suggest so would be irrational and an innovation in the Church.
_____________________________________
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Would a loving God do such a thing? Does that sound patently absurd? Of course it's absurd.
Lionel:
Jesus refers to Hell many times. Hell exists.
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That's why absurd individuals proudly proclaim it despite the idea has been condemned by the Magisterium. And, most importantly, that's why the Church doesn't teach it.
Lionel:
I have supported my Catholic belief with quotations from Vatican Council II and the three Church Councils which defined the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. I am in sync with the popes and the saints.I have also not used an irrational theology  with an irrational conclusion to interpret Vatican Council II as a rupture with the dogma EENS ( Feeneyite).So I have not said anything new.
It is the contemporary Magisterium which interprets Vatican Council II( Cushingite) as a rupture with the dogma EENS ( Feeneyite). So for them there is an EENS ( Cushingite).
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Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation. (CCC 847)
Lionel:
Yes they are theoretical cases.Hypothetical persons who do not live in our reality.This is how I interpret this passage.

For you they are known cases, in the present times and so they are explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
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What "No Salvation Outside the Church" Means
.
Outside The Church There Is No Salvation
Lionel:
These two 'respectable' Catholic websites make the following error.

1.Invisible cases are visible in the present times ( 1960-2016).
2.Lumen Gentium 16 ( invincible ignorance) and Lumen Gentium 14 ( baptism of desire) refer to a visible case.
3.Vatican Council II contradicts the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus since Lumen Gentium 16 etc are visible exceptions to the dogma.
4.The dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus has exceptions. They are the baptism of desire and blood and being saved in invincible ignorance, all without the baptism of water.

______________________

So I have tried to show here that my interpretation of Vatican Council II and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus is according to the Magisterial documents of the Catholic Church. The are interpreted rationally and according to Tradition.They are the same before and after Vatican Council II. Since they do not use an innovative premise and a fantasy theology, they are not heretical interpretations, as the common mainline interpretation, which is accepted by also the traditionalists and sedevacantists.-Lionel Andrades

https://gloria.tv/video/mR64NULSfwC63NeG6e1qoPXwS/postings/