Saturday, February 28, 2015

Marchetti’s false premise has been accepted by the Magisterium



George:
Lionel, there many good points in your comment but a bit over-stated. The only path to salvation is the Church which is inseparable from Christ.
Lionel:
Salvation is inseparable from Christ and his Church. All need to enter the Church with ‘faith and baptism'(Ad Gentes 7) for salvation , to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.
This was also the traditional teaching of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ( Cantate Domino , Council of Florence 1441)
So when I say that all need to be formal members of the Church ( with faith and baptism) I am citing Vatican Council II and the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
The Nicene Creed also says ‘I believe in one baptism for the forgivessness of sins’.
In a controversial passage the Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257 also says the Church knows of no means to eternal beatiude other than the baptism of water. This indicates that there are millions on the path to Hell who die every day without the baptism of water and Catholic Faith.

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Formal membership is the surest path, supported by the truth and sacraments.
Lionel:
It is the only path.

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Yet, the Church does NOT teach that Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus absolutely requires formal membership, as indisputably advantageous as that is.
Lionel:
The Magisterium does not teach it because of the Marchetti Inference, the false premise used in the interpretation of the dogma .
Cardinal Francesco Marchetti in the Leter of the Holy Office assumed there was salvation outside the Church and so the dogma was superseded. He assumed that the baptism of desire etc were exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma.
We now know that he made a factual mistake. We do not know any one in 2015 who is going to be saved or is saved with the baptism of desire and without the baptism of water. These cases are in Heaven. So how can they be explicit exceptions on earth to the dogma ?
Marchetti’s false premise on the dead, who are now in Heaven saved with the baptism of desire and who are explicit for us on earth, to be exceptions, has been accepted by the Magisterium.
It is irrational.

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Rather, the Church Christ founded works, in a diminished fashion (less effectively to be sure), outside of its formal boundaries.
Lionel:
If someone was saved outside the visible boundaries of the Church, without faith and baptism, we woud not know. Marchetti did not know. Only God can know. So this case would not be relevant or an exception to Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II and Cantate Dominio, Council of Florence 1441.

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Fr. Feeney was wrong, excommunicated because of it and recanted. I wrote about this 5 years ago in Only Catholics go to heaven?.
Lionel:
There are only Catholics in Heaven according to Vatican Council II (AG 7) and the dogma on exclusive salvation.
This was also Fr.Leonard Feeney’s position.
So how could he be wrong when we do not know any exceptions and no magisterial document before 1949 says there are exceptions to the dogma? Mystici Corporis and the Council of Trent for example, only mention persons who could be saved with the baptism of desire etc. They are possibilities. It is not said that these cases are visible and known to us to be exceptions to the dogma. Nor it is direcetly said that they are exceptions to the traditional interpretation. So all this was inferred wrongly wrongly by Cardinal Marchetti and the Archdiocese of Boston.
Fr.Feeney never recanted. How could he deny the dogma? Where are the exceptions? Do you know of anyone in the present times i.e someone who is saved or going to be saved without the baptism of water and Catholic Faith.
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To be clear, this is not a universalist position.
Lionel:
Salvation is open for all in potential, Christ died for all but to receive this salvation all need to be formal members of the Church.(Dominus Iesus 20 etc).

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Christ and His Church are one and the only path to salvation.
Lionel:
Yes and all need to be formal members for salvation.There are no defacto exceptions. I cannot meet someone on the streets of Rome for example who will be saved with the baptism of desire.I cannot say that someone in particular will be saved in invincible ignorance and without the baptism of water.

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Other Christian churches are certainly not equivalent, equal paths.
Lionel:
According to Cantate Dominio, other Christians are on the path to the fires of Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church.
They do not have Catholic Faith (AG 7). They do not have access to the Sacraments and fhe faith and moral teachings of the Church.

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Salvation for those not baptized is even more problematic (relying on baptism by desire, and in rare cases by blood).
Lionel:
All need the baptism of water for salvation( CCC 1257) if God is not limited to the Sacraments (CCC 1257) in a particular case, we would not know.

-Lionel Andrades
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Parts of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 and the Catechism of the Catholic Church do affirm the dogma according to Fr.Leonard Feeney
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/02/parts-of-letter-of-holy-office-1949-and.html
February 28, 2015
The Magisterium promotes heresy for political reasons ?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/02/the-magisterium-promotes-heresy-for.html
http://www.convertjournal.com/2015/02/make-disciples-of-all-nations/#comment-1650

Parts of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 and the Catechism of the Catholic Church do affirm the dogma according to Fr.Leonard Feeney


Lionel:
Parts of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949  and the Catechism of the Catholic Church  DO affirm the dogma according to Fr.Leonard Feeney. The text endorses the traditional strict interpretation.See the text in  blue.
The parts in red are controversial because Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani assumed there was known salvation outside the Church in 1949.
 
Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257: The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
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Catechism of the Catholic Church 846 : How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ,...
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LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE
 
We are bound by divine and Catholic faith to believe all those things which are contained in the word of God, whether it be Scripture or Tradition, and are proposed by the Church to be believed as divinely revealed, not only through solemn judgment but also through the ordinary and universal teaching office (, n. 1792).

Now, among those things which the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there is no salvation outside the Church.

However, this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church.

Now, in the first place, the Church teaches that in this matter there is question of a most strict command of Jesus Christ. For He explicitly enjoined on His apostles to teach all nations to observe all things whatsoever He Himself had commanded (Matt. 28: 19-20).

Now, among the commandments of Christ, that one holds not the least place by which we are commanded to be incorporated by baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to His Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth.


Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.

Not only did the Savior command that all nations should enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory.

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Here is the full text of the Letter.

LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE


From the Headquarters of the Holy Office, Aug. 8, 1949.
Your Excellency:
This Supreme Sacred Congregation has followed very attentively the rise and the course of the grave controversy stirred up by certain associates of "St. Benedict Center" and "Boston College" in regard to the interpretation of that axiom: "Outside the Church there is no salvation."
After having examined all the documents that are necessary or useful in this matter, among them information from your Chancery, as well as appeals and reports in which the associates of "St. Benedict Center" explain their opinions and complaints, and also many other documents pertinent to the controversy, officially collected, the same Sacred Congregation is convinced that the unfortunate controversy arose from the fact that the axiom, "outside the Church there is no salvation," was not correctly understood and weighed, and that the same controversy was rendered more bitter by serious disturbance of discipline arising from the fact that some of the associates of the institutions mentioned above refused reverence and obedience to legitimate authorities.
Accordingly, the Most Eminent and Most Reverend Cardinals of this Supreme Congregation, in a plenary session held on Wednesday, July 27, 1949, decreed, and the august Pontiff in an audience on the following Thursday, July 28, 1949, deigned to give his approval, that the following explanations pertinent to the doctrine, and also that invitations and exhortations relevant to discipline be given:
We are bound by divine and Catholic faith to believe all those things which are contained in the word of God, whether it be Scripture or Tradition, and are proposed by the Church to be believed as divinely revealed, not only through solemn judgment but also through the ordinary and universal teaching office (, n. 1792).
Now, among those things which the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there is no salvation outside the Church.
However, this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church.
Now, in the first place, the Church teaches that in this matter there is question of a most strict command of Jesus Christ. For He explicitly enjoined on His apostles to teach all nations to observe all things whatsoever He Himself had commanded (Matt. 28: 19-20).
Now, among the commandments of Christ, that one holds not the least place by which we are commanded to be incorporated by baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to His Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth.
Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.
Not only did the Savior command that all nations should enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory.
In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects, necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man's final end, not by intrinsic necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing. This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both in reference to the sacrament of regeneration and in reference to the sacrament of penance (, nn. 797, 807).
 
The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as she is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.
However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.
These things are clearly taught in that dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943, (AAS, Vol. 35, an. 1943, p. 193 ff.). For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are actually incorporated into the Church as members, and those who are united to the Church only by desire.
Discussing the members of which the Mystical Body is-composed here on earth, the same august Pontiff says: "Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed."
Toward the end of this same encyclical letter, when most affectionately inviting to unity those who do not belong to the body of the Catholic Church, he mentions those who "are related to the Mystical Body of the Redeemer by a certain unconscious yearning and desire," and these he by no means excludes from eternal salvation, but on the other hand states that they are in a condition "in which they cannot be sure of their salvation" since "they still remain deprived of those many heavenly gifts and helps which can only be enjoyed in the Catholic Church" (AAS, 1. c., p. 243). With these wise words he reproves both those who exclude from eternal salvation all united to the Church only by implicit desire, and those who falsely assert that men can be saved equally well in every religion (cf. Pope Pius IX, Allocution, , in , n. 1641 ff.; also Pope Pius IX in the encyclical letter, , in , n. 1677).
But it must not be thought that any kind of desire of entering the Church suffices that one may be saved. It is necessary that the desire by which one is related to the Church be animated by perfect charity. Nor can an implicit desire produce its effect, unless a person has supernatural faith: "For he who comes to God must believe that God exists and is a rewarder of those who seek Him" (Heb. 11:6). The Council of Trent declares (Session VI, chap. 8): "Faith is the beginning of man's salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God and attain to the fellowship of His children" (Denzinger, n. 801).
From what has been said it is evident that those things which are proposed in the periodical , fascicle 3, as the genuine teaching of the Catholic Church are far from being such and are very harmful both to those within the Church and those without.
From these declarations which pertain to doctrine, certain conclusions follow which regard discipline and conduct, and which cannot be unknown to those who vigorously defend the necessity by which all are bound' of belonging to the true Church and of submitting to the authority of the Roman Pontiff and of the Bishops "whom the Holy Ghost has placed . . . to rule the Church" (Acts 20:28).
Hence, one cannot understand how the St. Benedict Center can consistently claim to be a Catholic school and wish to be accounted such, and yet not conform to the prescriptions of canons 1381 and 1382 of the Code of Canon Law, and continue to exist as a source of discord and rebellion against ecclesiastical authority and as a source of the disturbance of many consciences.
Furthermore, it is beyond understanding how a member of a religious Institute, namely Father Feeney, presents himself as a "Defender of the Faith," and at the same time does not hesitate to attack the catechetical instruction proposed by lawful authorities, and has not even feared to incur grave sanctions threatened by the sacred canons because of his serious violations of his duties as a religious, a priest, and an ordinary member of the Church.
Finally, it is in no wise to be tolerated that certain Catholics shall claim for themselves the right to publish a periodical, for the purpose of spreading theological doctrines, without the permission of competent Church authority, called the "" which is prescribed by the sacred canons.
Therefore, let them who in grave peril are ranged against the Church seriously bear in mind that after "Rome has spoken" they cannot be excused even by reasons of good faith. Certainly, their bond and duty of obedience toward the Church is much graver than that of those who as yet are related to the Church "only by an unconscious desire." Let them realize that they are children of the Church, lovingly nourished by her with the milk of doctrine and the sacraments, and hence, having heard the clear voice of their Mother, they cannot be excused from culpable ignorance, and therefore to them apply without any restriction that principle: submission to the Catholic Church and to the Sovereign Pontiff is required as necessary for salvation.
In sending this letter, I declare my profound esteem, and remain,
Your Excellency's most devoted,
F. Cardinal Marchetti-Selvaggiani.
A. Ottaviani, Assessor.
(Private); Holy Office, 8 Aug., 1949.
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-Lionel Andrades
 
Did Pope Pius XII make a mistake ? : implicit desire, invincible ignorance have nothing to do with extra ecclesiam nulla salus http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/06/did-pope-pius-xii-make-mistake-implicit.html

From Pope Pius XII to Pope Francis they all have been using an irrational premise in the interpretation of magisterial texts

 

SSPX District Superior Italy makes the same factual error as Muller, Ladaria, Di Noi, Pozzo, Kaspar and Koch
 Will Archbishop Augustine Di Noia acknowledge he made an error?
 
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/02/will-archbishop-augustine-di-noia.html
 

 The Grand Secret : Vatican Council II says all Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Protestants etc are lost
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/06/the-grand-secret-vatican-council-ii.html

 


Catholic Religious indicate the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 made a factual mistake :implicit desire etc is not visible to us

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/06/catholic-religious-indicate-letter-of.html
 
 

Il Magistero promuove eresia per motivi politici?

               Questa è eresia magistrale.
 
I papi, il magistero della Chiesa cattolica (magistero) soddisfare la sinistra politica. Loro
non identifica la eresia Marchetti.Loro permesso una irrazionalità entrare nella teologia.
Non risolve il falso inferenza da 1949.Invece ha fatto l'errore chi e una  base di 'nuova teologia'. Si tratta un errore di fatto.
L'errore (nuova teologia) è legato a Papa Pio XII. Lui non può essere beatificato perché la sinistra ebraica non permette.
Loro hanno accolto con favore la beatificazione di Papa Giovanni XXIII e Paolo VI, che ha aperto e chiuso il Concilio Vaticano II. Era un Concilio Vaticano II interpretato con la Marchetti premise.Senza questa  premessa Concilio Vaticano II sarebbe Feeneyite e sgradevole per loro.
Ci sono due punti importanti che Papa Francesco e Papa Benedetto possano aver intenzionalmente trascurato. Potrebbe essere intenzionale perchè ci sono tanti rapporti su Internet che la identificano.
Per compiacere la sinistra politica non chiariscono questi due punti.
1) Prima del 1949 nessun documento della Chiesa cattolica ha dichiarato che  erano noti eccezioni al dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Non è mai detto che la salvezza in cielo, in qualsiasi forma, è stato esplicito nel casi che noi conosciamo personalmente.Cardinale Francesco Marchetti Selvaggianiinferisce questo  nella Lettera del Sant'Uffizio
1949.
2) Nel 1949 nessuno conosceva personalmente qualcuno salvato fuori della Chiesa, cioè senza 'fede e il battesimo' (AG 7) .Non poteva nominare nessuno. Quindi, e eresia ,per respingere un dogma definito; definito da tre Concili della Chiesa, con questo ragionamento irrazionale. Cambia anche l'interpretazione del Credo Niceno e il Concilio Vaticano II. Questa è eresia magistrale.
 
Il Magistero non annuncia che in realtà il Concilio Vaticano II dice tutti bisogno convertire nella Chiesa, e cattolici sono il nuovo popolo di Dio, il popolo eletto. Il Concilio Vaticano II indica che davvero non possiamo avere una ragionevole speranza che tutti gli uomini siano salvati, e che tutti gli ebrei, musulmani e cristiani (non cattolici) a Roma, sono sulla strada per l'inferno, a meno che non si convertono nella unica Chiesa che Gesù fondato.
1
 
Invece la Curia in Citta di Vaticano presuppone che Lumen Gentium 16 (salvato nell'ignoranza invincibile) ecc. riferersi a casi noti in tempi attuali (1965-2015) Così hanno un'eccezione esplicita. Una eccezione esplicita nel LG 16, per il dogma sulla salvezza esclusiva nella la Chiesa cattolica.
Ciò si traduce in una nuova teologia, una nuova ecclesiologia.
I morti chi e salvate e sicuri in cielo sono vengono eccezioni esplicite sulla terra!!
Sono eccezioni esplicite (per tutti bisogno 'la fede e il battesimo') per i papi e la Congregazione per la Dottrina della Fede.
 
Cosi 'Credo in un solo battesimo per il perdono dei peccati' (Credo di Nicea) è cambiato in 'Io credo in tre o più battesimi noto per il perdono dei peccati. Sono i battesimi del desiderio, il sangue, i semi del Verbo (AG 11), elementi di santificazione e di verità (LG 8), l'ignoranza invincibile (LG 16), la comunione imperfetta con la Chiesa (UR 3) ecc.Loro sono senza il battesimo di acqua, perchè ci sono conosciuto salvezza al di fuori della Chiesa '. Questo è irrazionale, non tradizionale e eretico.E un'eresia prima classe nella gerarchia delle verità.
Questa è un'eresia magisteriale che la Società di San Paulo X (FSSPX), Francescani dell'Immacolata,
tradizionalista e cattolici conservatori devono accettare, per evitare di essere etichettato scismatici, eretici, ecc.
-Lionel Andrades
 
February 28, 2015
The Magisterium promotes heresy for political reasons ?

The Magisterium promotes heresy for political reasons ?

               This is magisterial heresy.
 
The  popes, the teaching authority of the Catholic Church ( magisterium) pleases the political Left. It does not identify the Marchetti heresy.It has allowed an irrationality to enter theology.
It does not correct the false inference from 1949.Instead it has made the error the basis of a 'new theology'. It is a factual error. The error ( new theology) is linked to Pope Pius XII.The  pope who cannot be beatified because the Jewish Left objects. 
 
They have welcomed the beatification of Pope John XXIII and Pope Paul VI, who opened and closed Vatican Council II.This was Vatican Council II interpreted with the Marchetti premise.Without the premise the Council would be Feeneyite and objectionable for them.
There are two important points that Pope Francis  and Pope Benedict may have  intentionally overlooked. It could be intentional since  there are so many reports on the Internet which identify it. To please the political Left they do not  clarify these two points.
1) Before 1949 no Church document stated that there were known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.It was never said that salvation in Heaven in any form, was explicit in personal cases.Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 inferred this.
2) In 1949 no one personally knew of any one saved outside the Church i.e without 'faith and baptism'(AG 7).They could not name anyone.
So to reject a defined dogma,defined by three Church Councils, with this irrational reasoning is heresy.It also changes the interpretation of the Nicene Creed and Vatican Council II. This is magisterial heresy.
The Magisterium does not announce that Vatican Council II really says all need to convert into the Church and Catholics are the new people of God, the Chosen People. Vatican Council II  indicates that we really cannot have a reasonable hope that all men are saved, and that  all Jews, Muslims and Christians ( non Catholics) in Rome, are on the way to Hell ,unless they convert into the only Church Jesus founded.1
Instead the Curia at Vatican City assumes that Lumen Gentium 16 ( saved in invincible ignorance)  etc refer to known cases in the present times (1965-2015).So they have an  explicit exception, in LG 16, to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church. This results in a  new theology, a new ecclesiology.
They dead who are now saved and are safe in Heaven are explicit exceptions on earth! They are explicit exceptions (to all needing 'faith and baptism' )for the popes and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
So 'I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins' (Nicene Creed) is changed into 'I believe in three or more KNOWN baptisms for the forgiveness of sins. They are the baptisms of  desire, blood, seeds of the Word (AG 11), elements of sanctification and truth (LG 8), invincible ignorance (LG 16), imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3) etc.These are baptisms without the baptisms of water since there are is known salvation outside the Church.' 
This is irrational, non traditional and heretical.It is a first class heresy in the hierarchy of truths.
This is magisterial heresy which the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX), Franciscans of the Immaculate,traditionalist and conservative Catholics have to accept to avoid being labelled schismatic, heretical, etc.
-Lionel Andrades

1
VATICAN COUNCIL II SAYS http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/02/vatican-council-ii-says.html

No, we didn’t fire priest as spokesman over obscene tweet to Cardinal Burke: Basilian order



https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/we-didnt-fire-priest-over-obscene-tweet-to-cardinal-burke-hed-already-left?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=93ccbc37e0-LifeSiteNews_com_Intl_Headlines_06_19_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_0caba610ac-93ccbc37e0-398478861