SEPTEMBER 4, 2021
The pope cannot interpret Vatican Council II schismatically and expect the Ecclesia Dei communities and the rest of the Church to do the same. The pope is rejecting the rational interpretation of the Council. The Council interpreted rationally or irrationally is now an issue in the Church. We now have official heresy. There is official schism with the past Magisterium. Courtelain did not mention this point
THE POPE CANNOT INTERPRET VATICAN COUNCIL II SCHISMATICALLY AND EXPECT THE ECCLESIA DEI COMMUNTIES AND THE REST OF THE CHURCH TO DO THE SAME.THE POPE IS REJECTING THE RATIONAL INTERPRETATION OF THE COUNCIL. THE COUNCIL INTERPRETED RATIONALLY OR IRRATIONALLY IS NOW AN ISSUE IN THE CHURCH.WE NOW HAVE OFFICIAL HERESY. THERE IS OFFICIAL SCHISM WITH THE PAST MAGISTERIUM. COURTELAIN DID NOT MENTION THIS POINT.
There is only one rational interpretation of Vatican Council II.It’s with a rational premise.So there is no change in the teachings of the Catholic Church.The Ecclesia Dei communities meeting at Courtalain, France, August 31, 2021 had to confirm this.So when there is any reference to Vatican Council II it is understood that only the rational interpretation of the Council has to be chosen.If the pope does not affirm the traditional teachings of the Church, and chooses an irrational interpretion of the Council, with an irrational premise, he is in schism.Since the irrational premise has to create a rupture with de fide teachings ( Creeds and Catechisms).
If he interprets Vatican Council II schismatically with the false premise, he is in schism and his interpretation is not Magisterial and binding on all Catholics.The pope cannot interpret Vatican Council II schismatically and expect the Ecclesia Dei communities and the rest of the Novus Ordo Church to do the same.
Why should the Latin Mass Societies , Una Voce International and the Catholic Bishops Conference, who follow the pope, for example in Britain, interpret Vatican Council II irrationally, create a break with Tradition and consider this the norm ?
The Ecclesia Dei communities statement at Courtalain missed out on this point.The pope is in schism and he wants them to also accept schism by rejecting the rational interpretation of the Council.
Lay Catholics Roberto dei Mattei, Joseph Shaw, Peter Kwasniewski and John Henry Weston are ready to attend the Latin Mass and interpret Vatican Council II with the irrational premise, like Pope Francis, and so support a break with Tradition and also support manifest schism.This is approved by the Left.
Pope Francis is asking the Ecclesia Dei communities to accept Vatican Council II irrationally and schismatically, and they are going along with him.This was also the schismatic interpretation of Pope Benedict and they were content with it.
Before they have a meeting with Pope Francis and welcome apostolic visitors, these communities must clarify that they choose to interpret Vatican Council II non schismatically , with the rational premise, inference and non traditional conclusion.If they choose the irrational premise ( invisible people are visible in 2021) then the Council is a rupture with the Athanasius Creed ( all need Catholic faith for salvation).It contradicts the First Commandment( there is true worship in other religions with other gods).It changes the Nicene Creed ( I believe in one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church in which membership is not always needed for salvation) and ( I beleive in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins and also three or more known baptisms( desire, blood, invincible ignorance etc), which exclude the baptism of water and so they are practical exceptions to EENS, Syllabus of Errors etc).
This is official heresy. It is also official schism with the past Magisterium.The false premise is used to create a new fake theology.This is unethical.The Ecclesia Dei communities are being coerced, to accept the New Theology and the fake interpretation of the Council, in exchange for canonical recognition and permission to offer the Latin Mass.
In Switzerland, Bishop Charles Morerod op would not allow the Society of St.Pius X to use the churches for Holy Mass in Latin.He said here was a doctrinal problem.He wanted the SSPX to interpret Vatican Council II schismatically with the irrational premise and accept the non traditional conclusion.He was supported by Pope Benedict.
The Ecclesia Dei communities must demand that Bishop Morerod interpret Vatican Council II with the rational premise, inference and traditional conclusion and that he reject his schismatic version of the Council.It is created with the New Theology.They should also demand that all Apostolic Visitors to their communties do the same.
Vatican Council II interpreted rationally or irrationally is now an issue in the Church and the National Catechectical Offices and the Bishops Conferences, have no right to interpret the Council irrationally, creating schism and heresy, and expect the Ecclesia Dei communities to follow them.
The Ecclesia Dei communities are limited. Since they accept Vatican Council II schismatically like Pope Francis. They all use the false premise which Bishop Schneider avoided in his recent interview with Dr. Taylor Marshall.
The Institute of Christ the King priest , who is an Assistant to the diocesan Parish Priest for the Latin Mass in Dijon, France, could inform Bishop Roland Minnerath and the present two popes that he refuses to interpret Vatican Council II schismatically with the false premise.He would also inform the laity to accept the Council, which is no more an issue, but interpret it with the rational premise.-Lionel Andrades
The Ecclesia Dei communties must not let Pope Francis affirm Vatican Council II schismatically with the false premise and expect the rest of the Church to follow
SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 12, 2021
It is Pope Francis and Pope Benedict who are in schism and heresy with their irrational interpretation of the Council. This error has to be exposed by the Ecclesia Dei communities. Why should Catholics interpret the Council with the irrational premise and create a rupture with Tradition ? There is a choice. Why should the Ecclesia Dei communities continue to interpret the Council with an irrational premise , which produces a schismatic result, and then continue to be obedient ?
AUGUST 5, 2021
Repost : Pope Francis interprets Vatican Council II with a false premise to create a false rupture with Tradition and he calls it the work of the Holy Spirit, in the Letter which accompanies Traditionis Custode.
SEPTEMBER 9, 2021
I want the Ecclesia Dei communities to know that they can interpret Vatican Council II with a rational or irrational premise and the conclusion will be different. It will be traditional or non traditional. This hermeneutic of continuity with Tradition does not depend upon Pope Francis or the CDF. The issue is the rational premise
Comments from the blog Vox Cantoris,
Catholic Mission said...ose guadalupe rodriguez said...
Clearly submission to the holy father,to the supreme pontiff, to pope francis, to the bergoglian magisterium, to lumen gentium #25, to the vatican II.
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...Anonymous Anonymous said...
They sound like terrified beggars who expect to be squashed.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
What a fawning, sickening statement they came up with. Absolutely useless. If that's all the response they have then they are done for, Bergoglio and his ilk will devour their institutes just like the Franciscans of the Immaculate.
They must tell the two popes to affirm the traditional ecumenism of return to the Catholic Church for all Christians, since Unitatatis Redintigratio 3 does not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
They must demand that Pope Francis and Pope Benedict return to the past exclusivist ecclesiology of the Catholic Church since there is nothing in the entire text of Lumen Gentium to contradict the past ecclesiocentrism of the Catholic Church.
Anonymous said...Anonymous Paul Dale said...
THURSDAY, 2 SEPTEMBER 2021
https://voxcantor.blogspot.com/2021/09/communique-of-superiors-general-of.html
__________________
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SEPTEMBER 4, 2021
The pope cannot interpret Vatican Council II schismatically and expect the Ecclesia Dei communities and the rest of the Church to do the same. The pope is rejecting the rational interpretation of the Council. The Council interpreted rationally or irrationally is now an issue in the Church. We now have official heresy. There is official schism with the past Magisterium. Courtelain did not mention this point
THE POPE CANNOT INTERPRET VATICAN COUNCIL II SCHISMATICALLY AND EXPECT THE ECCLESIA DEI COMMUNTIES AND THE REST OF THE CHURCH TO DO THE SAME.THE POPE IS REJECTING THE RATIONAL INTERPRETATION OF THE COUNCIL. THE COUNCIL INTERPRETED RATIONALLY OR IRRATIONALLY IS NOW AN ISSUE IN THE CHURCH.WE NOW HAVE OFFICIAL HERESY. THERE IS OFFICIAL SCHISM WITH THE PAST MAGISTERIUM. COURTELAIN DID NOT MENTION THIS POINT.
There is only one rational interpretation of Vatican Council II.It’s with a rational premise.So there is no change in the teachings of the Catholic Church.The Ecclesia Dei communities meeting at Courtalain, France, August 31, 2021 had to confirm this.So when there is any reference to Vatican Council II it is understood that only the rational interpretation of the Council has to be chosen.If the pope does not affirm the traditional teachings of the Church, and chooses an irrational interpretion of the Council, with an irrational premise, he is in schism.Since the irrational premise has to create a rupture with de fide teachings ( Creeds and Catechisms).
If he interprets Vatican Council II schismatically with the false premise, he is in schism and his interpretation is not Magisterial and binding on all Catholics.The pope cannot interpret Vatican Council II schismatically and expect the Ecclesia Dei communities and the rest of the Novus Ordo Church to do the same.
Why should the Latin Mass Societies , Una Voce International and the Catholic Bishops Conference, who follow the pope, for example in Britain, interpret Vatican Council II irrationally, create a break with Tradition and consider this the norm ?
The Ecclesia Dei communities statement at Courtalain missed out on this point.The pope is in schism and he wants them to also accept schism by rejecting the rational interpretation of the Council.
Lay Catholics Roberto dei Mattei, Joseph Shaw, Peter Kwasniewski and John Henry Weston are ready to attend the Latin Mass and interpret Vatican Council II with the irrational premise, like Pope Francis, and so support a break with Tradition and also support manifest schism.This is approved by the Left.
Pope Francis is asking the Ecclesia Dei communities to accept Vatican Council II irrationally and schismatically, and they are going along with him.This was also the schismatic interpretation of Pope Benedict and they were content with it.
Before they have a meeting with Pope Francis and welcome apostolic visitors, these communities must clarify that they choose to interpret Vatican Council II non schismatically , with the rational premise, inference and non traditional conclusion.If they choose the irrational premise ( invisible people are visible in 2021) then the Council is a rupture with the Athanasius Creed ( all need Catholic faith for salvation).It contradicts the First Commandment( there is true worship in other religions with other gods).It changes the Nicene Creed ( I believe in one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church in which membership is not always needed for salvation) and ( I beleive in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins and also three or more known baptisms( desire, blood, invincible ignorance etc), which exclude the baptism of water and so they are practical exceptions to EENS, Syllabus of Errors etc).
This is official heresy. It is also official schism with the past Magisterium.The false premise is used to create a new fake theology.This is unethical.The Ecclesia Dei communities are being coerced, to accept the New Theology and the fake interpretation of the Council, in exchange for canonical recognition and permission to offer the Latin Mass.
In Switzerland, Bishop Charles Morerod op would not allow the Society of St.Pius X to use the churches for Holy Mass in Latin.He said here was a doctrinal problem.He wanted the SSPX to interpret Vatican Council II schismatically with the irrational premise and accept the non traditional conclusion.He was supported by Pope Benedict.
The Ecclesia Dei communities must demand that Bishop Morerod interpret Vatican Council II with the rational premise, inference and traditional conclusion and that he reject his schismatic version of the Council.It is created with the New Theology.They should also demand that all Apostolic Visitors to their communties do the same.
Vatican Council II interpreted rationally or irrationally is now an issue in the Church and the National Catechectical Offices and the Bishops Conferences, have no right to interpret the Council irrationally, creating schism and heresy, and expect the Ecclesia Dei communities to follow them.
The Ecclesia Dei communities are limited. Since they accept Vatican Council II schismatically like Pope Francis. They all use the false premise which Bishop Schneider avoided in his recent interview with Dr. Taylor Marshall.
The Institute of Christ the King priest , who is an Assistant to the diocesan Parish Priest for the Latin Mass in Dijon, France, could inform Bishop Roland Minnerath and the present two popes that he refuses to interpret Vatican Council II schismatically with the false premise.He would also inform the laity to accept the Council, which is no more an issue, but interpret it with the rational premise.-Lionel Andrades
SEPTEMBER 3, 2021
The Ecclesia Dei communties must not let Pope Francis affirm Vatican Council II schismatically with the false premise and expect the rest of the Church to follow
SEPTEMBER 3, 2021
The Ecclesia Dei communties must not let Pope Francis affirm Vatican Council II schismatically with the false premise and expect the rest of the Church to follow
The Ecclesia Dei communities in their statement have said that they do not see themselves as ‘the true Church’.They also indicate that they accept Pope Francis’ interpretation of Vatican Council II with the false premise instead of the rational premise.
They are concerned about disciplinary apostolic visits.They will be forced to implement liberal programs based upon the irrational interpretation of Vatican Council II, which they will not challenge.
The Ecclesia Dei communities are limited. Since they accept Vatican Council II schismatically like Pope Francis. They all use the false premise which Bishop Schneider avoided in his recent interview with Dr. Taylor Marshall.
These communities need to tell Pope Francis to interpret Vatican Council rationally and take the Catholic Church back to Tradition at all rites and liturgies.
They should mention that the SSPX-Vatican talks during the pontificate of Pope Benedict,were a waste of time.Since both sides were interpreting the Council with LG 14 ( baptism of desire) referring to literal and objective cases.
With his liberalism,based upon the false premise, Pope Francis is creating division in the Church and the Ecclesia Dei communities have not called attention to it.He is not allowing the Latin and Novus Ordo Mass to be offered by those who go back to Tradition, while correctly putting aside the Council, when it is interpreted schismatically.
ECCLESIA DEI COMMUNITIES MEET POPE FRANCIS
1.The Ecclesia Dei communties must tell Pope Francis and Pope Benedict, to affirm Vatican Council II interpreted non schismatically and that they expect the popes to also interpret the Council with the rational premise, before they offer Holy Mass.
2.They need to tell Pope Franics to affirm the Social Reign of Christ the King in all politics and political legislation,based upon the strict interpretation of EENS, supported by Vatican Council II( interpreted with the rational premise).
3.They must tell him to affirm an Ecumenism of Return to the Catholic Church, for Christian communities and churches, since Unitatis Redintigratio 3 does not contradict the traditional exclusivist ecclesiology and interpretation of EENS.
4.They need to tell Pope Francis to affirm Traditional Mission like the Jesuits of the 16th century, since the baptism of desire (Lumen Gentium 14) and invincible ignorance (Ad Gentes 7) are not exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was known to St.Ignatius of Loyola, St.Robert Bellarmine and St. Francis Xavier.
5.They must not let Pope Francis affirm Vatican Council II schismatically, with the false premise and expect the rest of the Church to follow. The Council is no more an issue for the traditionalists.Pope Francis can no more cite Vatican Council II to support his liberalism. The people are aware of a rational interpretation of the Council. -Lionel Andrades
Lionel Andrades
Promoter of the Lionel Andrades interpretation of Vatican Council II.For him the Council is dogmatic and not only pastoral.Writer on the discovery of the two interpretations of Vatican Council II, one is rational and the other is irrational, one is interpreted with the false premise and the other without it. One is Magisterial and the other, the common one, is non Magisterial.It is the same for the Creeds and Catechisms.There can be two interpretations.Why should Catholics choose an irrational version which is heretical, non traditional and schismatic, when a rational option is there which is traditional ?
Blog: Eucharist and Mission (eucharistandmission )
E-mail: lionelandrades10@gmail.com
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/leaders-of-ecclesia-dei-communities-rhetorical-judo/?utm_source=home_more_news&utm_campaign=catholic
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2021/09/communique-of-superiors-general-of.html
SEPTEMBER 2, 2021
I affirm the Catholic Church's teachings on other religions and salvation
I affirm all the teachings of the Catholic Church but I only interpret Church documents with the rational premise. So there is no rupture with the past Magisterium and Catholic Tradition.
1.I affirm the first part of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 which is not contradicted by the second half for me.Since the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance refer to hypothetical and theoretical cases only in 2021. They could not have been practical exceptions to Feenyite EENS in 1949. Pope Pius XII and the popes who followed made an objective mistake.The present popes continue with the mistake and expect all Catholics to follow them.So the interpretation of Vatican Council II by the College of Cardinals is also irrational and non Magisterial.
2.I affirm the Catechism of Pope Pius X ( 24 Q, 29 Q) on other religions.It is not contradicted by that same Catechism mentioning those who are saved in invincible ignorance. Similarly I affirm Ad Gentes 7 ( all need faith and baptism for salvation) which is not contradicted by Lumen Gentium 16 (invincible ignorance).LG 16 is always a hypothetical case.Only God can know if someone is saved in invincible ignorance.LG 8, LG 14, LG 16 are always hypothetical.So they do not contradict the past exclusivist ecclesiology of the Church.
3.Similarly the Vatican Council II, Decree on Ecumenism, Unitatis Redintigratio 3, is always hypothetical.So does not contradict the past ecumenism of return or the dogma outside the Church there is no salvation.
4.Similarly I affirm the Athanasius Creed which says all need Catholic faith for salvation.I do not know of any practical exception in the present times.
5.I affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and I accept hypothetical cases of the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and invincible ignorance. I do not have to reject them.Since they can only be hypothetical, always.
6.I affirm the Catechism of the Catholic Church (846 Outside the Church No Savation) with Ad Gentes 7 saying all need faith and baptism. I do not know of any exception.There is no exception mentioned in the phrase , ' all who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church'.The priority is membership in the Catholic Church, with 'faith and baptism' to avoid Hell ( for salvation).We do not separate Jesus from His Mystical Body the Catholic Church.The norm for salvation is faith and baptism.
7.Similarly I know that 'the Church knows of no means to eternal beatitude other than the baptism of water'(CCC 1257) and that there are no practical exceptions.Theoretically 'God is not limited to the Sacraments', and practically all need the baptism of water and Catholic faith,always, to avoid Hell.There are no practical exceptions for the norm for salvation.
8.In the Nicene Creed, we say 'one baptism for the forgiveness of sins'. This refers to one baptism, the baptism of water, which is physically visible. I cannot administer the baptism of desire and it is not known to us human beings.So there is one baptism and not three or more known baptisms.There are no known baptisms which exclude the baptism of water.There is no literal baptism of desire, as says, Bishop Athanasius Schneider in the recent interview with Dr. Taylor Marshall.
9.So the Four Marks of the Church( one, holy, Catholic and Apostolic) must include affirming all Church documents with the rational and not irrational premise.
10.In the Apostles Creed, we say "I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church".The Holy Spirit guides the Catholic Church even today, to say that outside the Catholic Church there is no known salvation.This would be interpreting the Apostles Creed with the rational premise.Otherwise the Creed would be saying outside the Church there is known salvation.
11.Vatican Council II is dogmatic and supports traditional EENS, with LG 8, LG 16 etc not being practical exceptions in the present times.
For Pope Paul VI, Vatican Council was pastoral and not dogmatic, since he used the false premise to create a break with the dogma EENS, the Syllabus of Errors etc.If he had interpreted the Council with a rational premise then the Council would also be dogmatic in 1965.It would make Fr. John Courtney Murray sj, Fr. Joseph Ratzinger, Fr. Yves Congar op and Fr. Karl Rahner sj unable to theologicallysupport their liberalism.There would not be a New Theology.
12.Since the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and invincible ignorance are always hypothetical, theoretical and speculative only, they do not contradict the Church's traditional ecclesiocentrism.
These are the teachings of the Catholic Church which I affirm and the priests in the parish are unable to do the same.
St. Alphonsus Liguori, father of Catholic moral theology,says that if a priest is in public mortal sin, do not go up to receive the Eucharist. Since it would be a sin against faith and charity. He is on the way to Hell and you are telling him all is well.
The priest must end the scandal.(Teologia Moralis Bk.3, N.47)
In my parish, Santa Maria di Nazareth, Casalotti, Boccea Rome the priests have a problem with the Creeds, Catechisms and other Magisterial documents, just like Pope Francis.They are in public schism. So I do not go up to receive the Eucharist, at Holy Mass in Italian.
Pastorally, they allow this situation to continue. -Lionel Andrades
With the false premise there are 'objective exceptions' to EENS. There are visible exceptions to the Athanasius Creed, the Nicene Creed is changed, there is a new understanding of the Nicene Creed etc :-
5.Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church are interpreted with the false premise so they become a rupture with EENS( Feeneyite), the Syllabus of Errors, Athanasius Creed etc.
8. Traditional mission based upon exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church is rejected. Since with the false premise, there is salvation outside the Church.
9.Inter faith marriages which are not Sacraments are common held.It is no more adultery. Since the non Catholic spouse could be saved outside the Church it is assumed. A posibility which could only be known to God is assumed to be a practical exception to EENS and a literally known case of salvation outside the Church in a personal case.
10. There is a new heretical ecclesiology at Holy Mass in all the rites and liturgies. The Latin Mass today does not have the same exclusivist ecclesiology of the Tridentine Rite Mass of the missionaries in the 16th century.
https://damselofthefaith.wordpress.com/2014/12/11/no-salvation-outside-the-catholic-church/
When Pope Benedict refused to give canonical recognition to the SSPX unless they accepted Vatican Council II schismatically with the false premise it was coercion. Even today the Ecclesia Dei communities have to follow the popes' schismatic interpretation of the Council for canonical recognition and permission to offer the Latin Mass
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/09/when-pope-benedict-refused-to-give.html
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