Friday, February 8, 2013

Heresy in New Catechumenal Way Catechesis : Interprets Vatican Council II as a break with the past, also rejects the dogma on exclusive salvation in only the Catholic Church




Otherwise one must have admiration for the lay Catholic evangelisers of the Way.

Last night I attended a Catechesis of the Neo Cathecumenal Way (NCW) at a church in central Rome. It was a nice experience.I liked what I heard.


Doctrinally though some of the things she was saying was heretical and a break with the past but she was not to be blamed.This is what she was given to say.And this was how she knew, and lived, the Catholic Faith with sincerity.


I knew the lady speaking and it was a joy listening to her speak fluently in Italian and from the heart relating personal experiences.


We were about 10 people there and most of what she was telling us was not new.It was about the desacralization of society, the need for us to be the salt and the light, to love others, to love with a divine love,things we already knew .It was a pleasure to listen to her.

She is a married lady with a many children, her husband was there too last night and is also a catechist . There were other married couples sitting in a semi circle in front of us, who are to speak over the next few weeks of catechesis.


These couples belong to the NCW in another Church in Rome . They are forming new nuclear communities in different parishes.Their spiritual director, a young priest, was also present last night.


Whatever one say about the NCW- their system works!


Here was a group of lay Catholic professionals, husbands and wives, and they had made time to present the Catholic Faith in a systematic manner.


They have an evangelisation system that works!


When she mentioned extra ecclesiam nulla salus I had to control myself from laughing.This was how she understood the Faith, how the Catholic Faith was meaningful for her.I couldn't expect her to interpret Vatican Council II according to Tradition. How could she? No one has taught it to her.But over time when the Church is back on the tracks with correct doctrine I think she will understand.Will she be able to adapt ? I don't know.


She was presenting Vatican Council II with the false premise of the dead man walking theory. This is the  leftist version of Vatican Council II.It was a break with the Syllabus of Errors and extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Since she was using the false premise of the visible dead saved in invincible ignorance etc , it would have to contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus. So she said that the dogma is not more applicable for today. She mentioned many people being saved who are not visible members of the Church, as if she knew them.


I was a part of this community in Rome for a few years. Over the last few years I have been out of touch with them.I loved their liturgy, their Holy Mass.


They were faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church in the best way they knew and in the best way they could possibly be in the present difficult times.They are criticized by the liberals and dissenters and misunderstood by the Traditionalists.


I remember the love and reverence I had. The awe, when I sat and held the Eucharist before me on my palm, supported by my other hand.We would wait until every one received the Eucharist and then consume it together.Traditionalists misunderstand this experience.

Their Mass is similar to those in the catacombs of Rome, the house Masses during the time of persecution.The only difference today,with that time, is in theology and doctrine.


There is a doctrinal-cancer which has entered and spread through out the Catholic Church. It is there in the FSSP Tridentine Latin Rite Mass in Rome as much in the NCW.The doctrinal error of the visible dead saved needs to be checked by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.


I was glad the meeting ended at 10 p.m. They have an efficient Metro system and so I could get back to where I am staying quicker then I expected.-Lionel Andrades

ARCHBISHOP MARCEL LEFEBVRE IN AGREEMENT WITH FR.LEONARD FEENEY -SSPX PRIOR


Yesterday evening in Rome I met the Prior of the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) community at Albano, Italy. I mentioned that I had a question about Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.


Archbishop Lefebvre said that a Hindu could be saved in Tibet in his religion.This person saved ' in certain circumstances', and not the general rule, could be saved by Jesus Christ and his Mystical Body the Catholic Church, outside of which there is no salvation.He agreed that this was a possibility, known only to God.I then reminded him that when we last met he had said that  physically we are unable to see someone saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire. We cannot see the dead, he repeated, they are not visible to us on earth.


So when Archbishop Lefebvre said a non Catholic could be saved in another religion in invincible ignorance etc, he was not contradicting the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus nor Tradition in general.Since every one needs to be a visible member of the Church for salvation, according to the dogma,  and there are no known exceptions, in Tibet or elsewhere in the present times.


I was glad with this answer and I thanked him and was ready to leave. It was clear for me that he was saying that Archbishop Lefebvre did not contradict Fr.Leonard Feeney.


It was at that moment a lady talking to others nearby, said aloud something in their conversation, something about the "archbishop of Boston".When I overheard this I called Fr.Aldo Rossi's attention to that remark. I asked him if he knew about Fr.Leonard Feeney in the Archdiocese of Boston.

I explained that since Fr.Leonard Feeney held the traditional interpretation of the dogma Cantate Domino,Council of Florence 1441 he did not contradict Archbishop Lefebvre who said a non Catholic could be saved in his religion.

Fr.Aldo Rossi agreed that it was not a contradiction of Fr.Leonard Feeney's position.Every one needs to be a visible member of the Catholic Church and there are no exceptions.Since the dead saved in another religion are not physically visible to us humans so they could not be exceptions.Invisible cases are not exceptions.

It may be mentioned that there are traditionalists who are do not realize that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance can only be accepted as possibilities, hypothetical cases. They are not exceptions to Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II which says all need faith and baptism for salvation.Neither are these cases, known only to God, exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which Pope Pius XII called an 'infallible statement"(Letter of the Holy Office 1949).


Since these traditionalists and sedevacantists assume that these cases are visible to us, they are critical of anyone who says a non Catholic, 'in certain circumstances' can be saved in another religion. For them this would be a contradiction to Cantate Domino,the dogma on exclusive salvation in only the Catholic Church.
-Lionel Andrades

SSPX PRIOR AT ALBANO,ITALY SAYS WE DON'T KNOW ANYONE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE AND THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE


SSPX PRIESTS IN ALBANO,ITALY DISAGREE WITH U.S WEBSITE: THERE ARE NO KNOWN EXCEPTIONS TO EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS IN VATICAN COUNCIL II