Re-interpreting Lumen Gentium 14

Since the Council Fathers assumed 'the red was an exception to the blue',1 and that invisible cases of BOD, BOB and I.I 1 were examples of visible salvation outside the Catholic Church, their understanding of extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) had become Cushingite.It was no more Feeneyite.

So with allegedly known cases of non Catholics saved outside the Church, in invincible ignorance, Lumen Gentium 14 refers to only those who know about Jesus and the Church, do not want to enter the Church and are oriented to Hell. This knowing and not knowing comes from the false reasoning of the the Letter of the Holy Office 1949(LOHO).

We humans cannot say that any one in particular will be saved outside the Church, in ignorance.We cannot know or not know.
We cannot say that any particular person in the Americas was  saved outside the Church, before Columbus and the Christian missionaries went there.The norm for salvation is faith and baptism (AG 7) and they did not have it.

Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre could speculate.Someone not baptised with water, could have a sincere desire for the baptism of water.If he dies before receiving it , he would still  go to Heaven.Yes he could go to Heaven if God wants it.But the Archbishop could not personally know any particular case or be able to make a general rule for exceptions.

So now even though Lumen Gentium 14 has the Cushingite reasoning, and assumes there are exceptions  of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance, we can interpret LG 14 rationally and it does not contradict the old interpretaion of EENS.We affirm the dogma EENS and there are no exceptions to EENS mentioned in LG 14. 

We re-interpret Vatican Council II rationally.It is important to first think about the dogma EENS and the three Church Councils, which defined it. Then look at LG 14 etc as simply being hypothetical. It is important not to superficually visualize LG 14 etc as being objective and then look at EENS, as having exceptions.You have to choose before hand if Vatican Council II is going to be Cushingite or Feeneyite for you.
Similarly you have to choose if you want to interpret EENS as being Feeneyite or Cushingite. There could be EENS without exceptions and EENS with exceptions.

So if we choose to read LG 14 and Vatican Council II with Cushingism our conclusion will be Cushingite.We must know that our premise is wrong.There are no visible examples of salvation outside the Catholic Church.If we read LG 14 and Vatican Council II rationally then the Council does not contradict Feeneyite EENS.
-Lionel Andrades

1

Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II

14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.
They are fully incorporated in the society of the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ accept her entire system and all the means of salvation given to her, and are united with her as part of her visible bodily structure and through her with Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. The bonds which bind men to the Church in a visible way are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion. He is not saved, however, who, though part of the body of the Church, does not persevere in charity. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but, as it were, only in a "bodily" manner and not "in his heart."(12*) All the Church's children should remember that their exalted status is to be attributed not to their own merits but to the special grace of Christ. If they fail moreover to respond to that grace in thought, word and deed, not only shall they not be saved but they will be the more severely judged.(13*)
Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II
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 FEBRUARY 9, 2019

The red is not an exception to the blue' : new extraordinary understanding of Vatican Council II

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/02/the-red-is-not-exception-to-blue-new.html

JANUARY 28, 2019

In Magisterial documents the red is not an exception to the blue, the red does not contradict the blue : with the blue there is a hermeneutic of continuity with Tradition (16th- century extra ecclesium nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors, ecumenism of return, past exclusivist ecclesiology etc) 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/in-magisterial-documents-red-is-not.html

Repost : The red is not an exception to the blue, the red does not contradict the blue : Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/repost-red-is-not-exception-to-blue-red.html

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JULY 4, 2019

Vatican Documents are interpreted with the red being an exception to the blue

The Vatican Document released by the Commission for Relations with the Jews1 interpreted Vatican Council II with the red being an exception to the blue.So it is flawed.

So also the Balamand Declaration and the Joint Declaration on Justification with the Lutherans.

They are based upon the same error.

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith needs to issue a clarifiction and acknowledge the mistake.

-Lionel Andrades

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Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II

 Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it." Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him...- Ad Gentes 7. Vatican Council II

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Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II

14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.
They are fully incorporated in the society of the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ accept her entire system and all the means of salvation given to her, and are united with her as part of her visible bodily structure and through her with Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. The bonds which bind men to the Church in a visible way are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion. He is not saved, however, who, though part of the body of the Church, does not persevere in charity. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but, as it were, only in a "bodily" manner and not "in his heart."(12*) All the Church's children should remember that their exalted status is to be attributed not to their own merits but to the special grace of Christ. If they fail moreover to respond to that grace in thought, word and deed, not only shall they not be saved but they will be the more severely judged.(13*)
Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II
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 Unitatis Redintigratio (Decree on Ecumenism), Vatican Council II

It follows that the separated Churches(23) and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.

Nevertheless, our separated brethren, whether considered as individuals or as Communities and Churches, are not blessed with that unity which Jesus Christ wished to bestow on all those who through Him were born again into one body, and with Him quickened to newness of life - that unity which the Holy Scriptures and the ancient Tradition of the Church proclaim. For it is only through Christ's Catholic Church, which is "the all-embracing means of salvation," that they can benefit fully from the means of salvation. We believe that Our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, in order to establish the one Body of Christ on earth to which all should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the people of God. This people of God, though still in its members liable to sin, is ever growing in Christ during its pilgrimage on earth, and is guided by God's gentle wisdom, according to His hidden designs, until it shall happily arrive at the fullness of eternal glory in the heavenly Jerusalem.-Unitatis Redintigratio (Decree on Ecumenism), Vatican Council II

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 Dignitatis Humane 1, Vatican Council II

First, the council professes its belief that God Himself has made known to mankind the way in which men are to serve Him, and thus be saved in Christ and come to blessedness. We believe that this one true religion subsists in the Catholic and Apostolic Church, to which the Lord Jesus committed the duty of spreading it abroad among all men. Thus He spoke to the Apostles: "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have enjoined upon you" (Matt. 28: 19-20). On their part, all men are bound to seek the truth, especially in what concerns God and His Church, and to embrace the truth they come to know, and to hold fast to it.

This Vatican Council likewise professes its belief that it is upon the human conscience that these obligations fall and exert their binding force. The truth cannot impose itself except by virtue of its own truth, as it makes its entrance into the mind at once quietly and with power.

Religious freedom, in turn, which men demand as necessary to fulfill their duty to worship God, has to do with immunity from coercion in civil society. Therefore it leaves untouched traditional Catholic doctrine on the moral duty of men and societies toward the true religion and toward the one Church of Christ.-Dignitatis Humane 1, Vatican Council II

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 Catechism of the Catholic Church

 "Outside the Church there is no salvation"  846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:  

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: 

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."

-Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848 

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 DOMINUS IESUS 

IV. UNICITY AND UNITY OF THE CHURCH

16.  The Lord Jesus, the only Saviour, did not only establish a simple community of disciples, but constituted the Church as a salvific mystery: he himself is in the Church and the Church is in him (cf. Jn 15:1ff.; Gal 3:28; Eph 4:15-16; Acts9:5).  Therefore, the fullness of Christ's salvific mystery belongs also to the Church, inseparably united to her Lord. Indeed, Jesus Christ continues his presence and his work of salvation in the Church and by means of the Church (cf.Col 1:24-27),⁴⁷ which is his body (cf. 1 Cor 12:12-13, 27; Col 1:18).⁴⁸ And thus, just as the head and members of a living body, though not identical, are inseparable, so too Christ and the Church can neither be confused nor separated, and constitute a single “whole Christ”.⁴⁹ This same inseparability is also expressed in the New Testament by the analogy of the Church as the Bride of Christ (cf. 2 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:25-29; Rev 21:2,9).⁵⁰

Therefore, in connection with the unicity and universality of the salvific mediation of Jesus Christ, the unicity of the Church founded by him must befirmly believed as a truth of Catholic faith. Just as there is one Christ, so there exists a single body of Christ, a single Bride of Christ: “a single Catholic and apostolic Church”.⁵¹ Furthermore, the promises of the Lord that he would not abandon his Church (cf. Mt 16:18; 28:20) and that he would guide her by his Spirit (cf. Jn 16:13) mean, according to Catholic faith, that the unicity and the unity of the Church — like everything that belongs to the Church's integrity — will never be lacking.⁵²

The Catholic faithful are required to profess that there is an historical continuity — rooted in the apostolic succession⁵³ — between the Church founded by Christ and the Catholic Church: “This is the single Church of Christ... which our Saviour, after his resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care (cf. Jn 21:17), commissioning him and the other Apostles to extend and rule her (cf. Mt28:18ff.), erected for all ages as ‘the pillar and mainstay of the truth' (1 Tim 3:15). This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in [subsistit in] the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him”.⁵⁴  With the expression subsistit in, the Second Vatican Council sought to harmonize two doctrinal statements: on the one hand, that the Church of Christ, despite the divisions which exist among Christians, continues to exist fully only in the Catholic Church, and on the other hand, that “outside of her structure, many elements can be found of sanctification and truth”,⁵⁵ that is, in those Churches and ecclesial communities which are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church.⁵⁶ But with respect to these, it needs to be stated that “they derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”

-Dominus Iesus 16. 

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LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE 1949 DURING THE PONTIFICATE OF POPE PIUS XII

( This letter was  an inter office correspondence between cardinals. However the liberals placed it in the Denzinger and it has been referenced in Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It contains an objective error when it assumes invisible and unknown cases of the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and being saved in invincible ignorance are visible and known exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Upon this Letter is based the New Theology.)

 We are bound by divine and Catholic faith to believe all those things which are contained in the word of God, whether it be Scripture or Tradition, and are proposed by the Church to bebelieved as divinely revealed, not only through solemn judgment but also through the ordinary and universal teaching office (, n. 1792).

Now, among those things which the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there
 is no salvation outside the Church.

However, this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church...

Now, among the commandments of Christ, that one holds not the least place by which we are commanded to be incorporated by baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, 
which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to His Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth...

Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless  refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.
Not only did the Savior command that all nations should  enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory.
In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects, necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man's final end, not by intrinsic
 necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing. This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both in reference to the sacrament of regeneration and in reference to the sacrament of penance (, nn. 797, 807).

  Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.
However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.

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JUNE 29, 2019

Fr Matteo Visioli Undersecretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) has ordered that all religious communities interpret Vatican Council II and other magisterial documents with the red being an exception to the blue. This is obligatory also for the Franciscans of the Immaculate. They are not permitted to interpret the Council with the red not being an exception to the blue https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/06/fr-matteo-visioli-undersecretary-of.html

JUNE 29, 2019

Cardinal Kurt Koch interprets Vatican Council II interpreted with the red being an exception to the blue. He does not dare interpret the Council with the red passages not being objective exceptions to the orthodox blue passages which support EENS https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/06/cardinal-kurt-koch-interprets-vatican.html

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JUNE 30, 2019

Pope Francis used the red is an exception to theblue interpretation of Vatican Council II on his return flight from Abu Dhabi : it was a mistake

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/06/pope-francis-used-red-is-exception-to.html

JUNE 12, 2018

 

The Joint Statement of the Catholics and Lutherans on Justification and the Balamand Declaration were false. Lutherans and Orthodox Christians do not have the faith needed for salvation.Pope Benedict was a Cushingite who rejected EENS

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/06/the-joint-declaration-of-catolics-and.html

 NOVEMBER 1, 2017

Balamand Declaration with Orthodox Christians and Declaration on Justification with Lutherans null and void : wrongly interprets Vatican Council II with a false premise to create a rupture with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus of Errorshttps://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2017/11/balamand-declaration-with-ortodox.html

OCTOBER 31, 2017

Vatican-Lutheran Joint Declaration on Justification was null since the Catholic side rejected the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and wrongly re-interpreted Vatican Council II as a rupture with EENS http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/11/balamand-declaration-with-ortodox.html

Popes since the time of Pius XII have in public used irrational, non traditional and heretical Cushingism as a theology - 2 http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/popes-since-time-of-pius-xii-have-in.html

Vatican’s Commission for Religious Relations with Jews uses irrational Cushingism as a basic theology
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/vaticans-commission-for-religious.html

John Vennari is not aware of the heresy of Cushingism
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/john-vennari-is-not-aware-of-heresy-of.html

Irrational Cushingism theology in the Document on the Jews is also there in Redemptorist Missio and Dominus Iesus

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/12/irrational-cushingism-theology-in.html

DECEMBER 15, 2015 Louie Verrecchio still doesn't get it :there is a theology of Cushingism and Feeneyism https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2015/12/louie-verrecchio-still-doesnt-get-it.html

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/relations-jews-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20151210_ebraismo-nostra-aetate_en.html

 

FEBRUARY 4, 2019

Nei documenti magistrali il rosso non è un'eccezione al blu, il rosso non contraddice il blu: con il blu c'è un'ermeneutica di continuità con la Tradizione (extra ecclesium nulla salus del 16 ° secolo , Sillabo degli Errori di Pio IX, ecumenismo del ritorno, esclusivista ecclesiologia ecc. ) 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/02/nei-documenti-magistrali-il-rosso-non-e.html

Catholic professors of theology at odds in Britain with Cardinal Vince Nicols

Catholic professors of theology in Britain know that Vatican Council II indicates all non Catholics in general are oriented to Hell, so we know, we can judge,when we meet a non Catholic.But Cardinal Vince Nicols, the Archbishop of Westminister, England, says that we cannot personally judge if a non Catholic is oriented to Hell, in particular cases and that the Church does not say that any particular person is in Hell.

Cardinal Nicols interprets Vatican Council II with Cushingism.He uses the false premise. He assumes  hypothetical cases (LG 16 etc) are practical examples of salvation outside the Church in 1965-2019.He assumes LG 8 etc refer to personally known people saved without faith and baptism. So Vatican Council II is a break with extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS), the Syllabus of Errors and the past ecclesiology.

The dogma EENS is rejected and the Council is interpreted irrationally.

For him the Church no more says that all non Catholics are oriented to Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church.

So when Cardinal Nicols meets a  non Catholic he cannot personally judge(obviously) and the Church is not saying for him that faith and baptism is the norm for salvation but instead there are  practical exceptions to EENS for him.

The dogma EENS and the Catechisms which affirm exclusive salvation in the Church stand rejected by him.

Of course we personally cannot judge but the Church in its magisterial documents interpreted rationally; interpreted with Feeneyism as a philosophy and theology, says that non Catholics without faith and baptism are oriented to Hell.So we can judge.-Lionel Andrades

Gregorian Pontifical University professors could snitch upon each other : though control criminal laws

 

 

Professors of the  Gregorian Pontifical University, Rome interpret magisterial documents  with an irrational premise and if they do not do so they have Anti-Semitic criminal charges facing them.They could be reported to the police by some of their non-Catholic colleagues.

This is a problem being faced by Catholic professors, including priests, in all the pontifical universities in Italy.

I know a Spanish professor of philosophy who affirmed the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) a few years back.He did not want to be quoted. He feared that he could lose his teaching job.It would be the end of his career as a Catholic professor in Rome.

 

So it is common for professors to say that we cannot judge if a particular non Catholic is oriented to Hell and- they do not say that the Catholic Church indicates in Vatican Council II etc,that we can judge. 

The norm for salvation is faith and baptism,(AG 7, LG 14).It is Catholic faith and the baptism of water. If one has Catholic faith and has received the baptism of water it can be practically known. Only the baptism of water can be practically seen and not the baptism of desire, baptism of blood without the baptism of water or being saved in invincible ignorance without the baptism of water.So we cannot know of any practical exception to all needing faith and baptism for salvation.There are no literal exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation( to avoid Hell).

So Vatican Council II, Feeneyite, interpreted in this way would be Anti-Semitic, racist etc.

The Anti-Semitic laws were placed in the Italian Parliament by Catholic politicians in coordination with Abraham Foxman of the Anti Defamation League(ADL) and other Zionist organisations.
Many Italians in other professions have lost their jobs under Anti Semitism laws which are approved by the liberal rabbis in Italy.

The professors at the Gregorian Pontifical University say frivolous things since they know there is no freedom of religion and expression for them.

They cannot affirm Feeneyite EENS and Vatican Council II, since it could be miscontrued.-Lionel Andrades