Wednesday, October 31, 2012

SEDEVACANTISTS AND SSPX- KETTLE CALLING THE POT BLACK OVER THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE

The Dimond Brothers like Fr.Joseph Pfeiffer, Superior of the Society of St. Pius X-SO are sure cases of the baptism of desire are visible to us in real life and so are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

The Dimond brothers have  a video on the Internet  criticizing Fr.Joseph Pfeiffer for not rejecting the  baptism of desire like them. They  accuse him and the SSPX groups of being heretics.

Since the sedevacantists Peter and Michael Dimond assume that the baptism of desire is visible and known to us they reject it.They believe this would be a contradiction of the dogma. They reject the baptism of desire even though it is affirmed by the Council of Trent.

They have criticized the SSPX-SO not knowing it is the kettle calling the pot black. They both assume that the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance are not just a reference to cases in principle but to defacto known cases i.e. one can phone or meet on the street someone saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance.


So the sedevacantists Peter and Michael Dimond and the SSPX–SO condemn Vatican Council II .For them the Vatican Council II's  ‘implicit intentions’, invincible ignorance etc do not fit with the Catholic dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

It also caught my attention that this breakaway group being led by the priests and Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer in particular - Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer is one of the most outspoken members of the SSPX on the issue of "Baptism of Desire," "Salvation Outside the Church," and arguments that you don't need the Catholic faith for salvation.-Brother Peter Dimond, MHFM video

Peter Dimond does not think it through that one can affirm implicit baptism of desire along with the literal interpretation of outside the church there is no salvation. It does not contradict the Principle of Non Contradiction.


Lefebvre says that souls can be saved in non -catholic religions; Schmitberger said it; Fellay said it - it's in their publications - that's what all their priests believe - they hold that the non -catholic Vatican II church is non - catholic, yet it is still the Catholic Church and it's leaders are Catholic!

If souls are saved in other religions with the baptism of desire etc it is irrelevant to the literal interpretation of the dogma since these cases are known only to God.


Father Feeney, when in the 1940's and 1950's most of the world's bishops had embraced the idea that salvation could be attained outside the Catholic Church, which paved the way for the acceptance of Vatican II with little resistance, was severely persecuted for upholding the dogma Outside the Catholic Church There is No Salvation


Yes the Vatican like the sedevacantists and the SSPX groups are all one the same boat. For them the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are explicitly known to us even though they cannot name any case in 2012.

When they all see the fault  they will know  that Vatican Council II is a  Council which is not a break from the past.

-Lionel Andrades



Subject: SSPX mini-schism

THE POEM OF THE MAN GOD BY MARIA VALTORTA

When Edward Pentin interviewed Archbishop Augustine Di Noia for the National Catholic Register he spoke to him about extra ecclesiam nulla salus  and observed that implementing the dogma was not important in the Church. In that interview the Vice President of Ecclesia Dei, Vatican quoted Ralph Martin of the Charismatic Renewal Movement.

Ralph Martin like the Archbishop assumes that we can see the dead saved. Martin cites those saved in invincible ignorance and a good conscience (LG 16) and Archbishop Di Noia those with God's grace, 'elements of sanctification' (LG 8) who are known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

When they realize that they have made an objective mistake what will be their reaction?.Hower will Cardinal Gerhard Muller also respond (he has made the same mistake in another NCR interview) when they realize that objectively, factually the dead are not visible to us.

I write this after reading a good review of Maria Valtorta's The Poem of the Man God.In the five volumne book is  the traditional understanding of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.There are no known exceptions.

The account of The Poem of the Man God is by Bishop Richard Williamson who interestingly makes the same mistake as the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Vatican archbishops. He assumes that those saved with the baptism of desire are explicitly known to us and so are exceptions to the dogma.

Like the other SSPX bishops he is saying that the Holy Office 1949 made a mistake when they assumed that the baptism of desire etc was an exception to the literal interpretation of the dogma on salvation.

Interestingly The Poem of the Man God was initially approved at Medugorje. It was a source of controversy in the 1990's when I was there. Finally the Franciscans decided to state that it was not a message of Our Lady. This met the polticial standards set by the Vatican with their explicitly known baptism of desire etc.

Now Medugorje promotes Vicka's message which says most people on earth go to Heaven. This contradicts Ralph Martin's book on salvation and the New Evangelisation.

When the error of the visible dead is exposed by the Vatican, Medugorje would have to go back to theseer Marija's apparition in which Our Lady recommended that she read this book.

This great truth is underlined again and again in the full-length portrait of Judas given in Maria Valtorta's "Poem of the Man-God". This - in English - five-volume life of Our Lord, based on visions supposedly given by Our Lord himself to a bed-ridden Italian woman during the Second World War, is much controverted. But in our time of all-round and on-going betrayal of the Catholic Church, who can dispute the reasonableness of the last of the seven reasons given supposedly by Our Lord for his granting this panorama of his life to mankind in mid-20th century? - "To acquaint you with the mystery of the fall of a soul upon which God had bestowed extraordinary benefits... to acquaint you with the process by which servants and sons of God fall, changing into devils and deicides, killing the God who is within them by killing grace... Apply yourselves to studying the horrible but all too common figure of Judas, a knot tying together, like twisting snakes, all seven capital vices... how many people, in all walks of life, imitate Judas by giving themselves over to Satan and hurtling to their eternal death!" Judge for yourselves the authenticity of the portrait of Judas Iscariot as presented in the "Poem of the Man-God"... http://williamsonletters.blogspot.it/2009/02/judas-and-newchurch.html
 
-Lionel Andrades

Ralph Martin assumes that we can see the dead saved in invincible ignorance and a good conscience

Ralph Martin fails to notice that Lumen Gentium  16 is not an exception to Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation. He also assumes that we can see the dead saved in invincible ignorance and a good conscience and so LG 16 is an exception to all needing to enter the Catholic Church to avoid Hell, with no known exceptions on earth.

14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. -Lumen Gentium 14

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. -Ad Gentes 7.

Evangelisation is about being saved. The New Evangelisation must recognize doctrinally that all non Catholics are on the way to Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church and there are no exceptions.

We do not know whosoever knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary would refuse to enter could not be saved.

Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.-Lumen Gentium 14.


So this passage does not contradict the teaching that ALL need to enter the Church for salvation.

When Vatican Council II mentions that a person can be saved with an 'implicit intention' this is known only to God and so is not an exception to ALL needing to enter the Church for salvation.-Lionel Andrades