Friday, June 13, 2014

Most Catholic priests are using the irrational, right-hand side column in the interpretation of Vatican Council II


Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Bishop Bernard Fellay have used the irrational column http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/06/archbishop-marcel-lefebvre-and-bishop.html#links

Roman Forum Summer Conference this month will use the right hand side column in the interpretation of Vatican Council II http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/06/roman-forum-summer-conference-this.html#links

There are Catholic religious and lay persons who use the the left hand side column in the interpretation of magisterial text http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/06/there-are-catholic-religious-and-lay.html#links

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/06/magisterium-it-all-depends-on-how-you.html#links
-Lionel Andrades
 
LEFT HAND SIDE COLUMN or RIGHT HAND SIDE COLUMN


All salvation referred to in Vatican Council II i.e saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16), imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3),seeds of the Word (AG 11), good and holy things in other religions (NA 2) etc are either:

implicit                      or explicit for us.

hypothetical              or known in reality.

invisible                     or visible in the flesh.

dejure ( in principle) or defacto ( in fact ).

subjective                  or objective

So one can choose from the left hand side or the right hand side column.

If the right hand side column is chosen then Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors and Tradition in general on other religions and Christian communities and churches. There are known exceptions in 2014 to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Cathlic Church. The dead- saved are visible.

If the left hand side column is chosen then Vatican Council II does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus, nor Tradition on other religions and Christian communities and churches.

Most people interpret Vatican Council II with the right hand side values.

So the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance was never ever an exception to the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney, unless one is using the right hand side column.There were and are no known exceptions.
In 2014 the Padre Pio Prayer groups, the Neo Catechumenal Way, Charismatic Renewal, all the religious communities and most of the Diocesan priests, the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX), Archbishop Gerhard Muller, Archbishop Augustine Di Noi, Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J, Monsignor Guido Pozzo and the Vatican Council for the Clergy are using the irrational column in the interpretation of Vatican Council II, the Catechism of the Catholic Church,Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston 1949,Redemptois Missio, Mystici Corporis, Quanta Cura ...-Lionel Andrades

The International Theological Commission,Vatican is using the irrational column

'10. Exclusivist ecclesiocentrism—the fruit of a specific theological system or of a mistaken understanding of the phrase extra ecclesiam nulla salus—is no longer defended by Catholic theologians after the clear statements of Pius XII and Vatican Council II on the possibility of salvation for those who do not belong visibly to the Church (cf, e.g., LG 16; GS 22)...'-International Theological Commission, Christianity and the World Religions
(Lionel: TheInternational Theological Commission(ITC) is implying here that the the possibility of salvation for those who do not belong visibly to the Church are  visible for us.The ITC  is using the right hand column.) 


67. Vatican Council II makes its own the expression extra ecclesiam nulla salus. But in using it the council explicitly directs itself to Catholics and limits its validity to those who know the necessity of the Church for salvation. The council holds that the affirmation is based on the necessity of faith and of baptism affirmed by Christ (LG 14). In this way the council aligned itself in continuity with the teaching of Pius XII, but emphasized more clearly the original parenthentical character of this expression.- Christianity and the World Religions 1997,International Theological Commission 
(Lionel: The International Theological Commission,Vatican is implying here that  only those who know the necessity of the Church for salvation are visible for us.For the ITC these cases are relevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.They are exceptions.The ITC is using the right hand column.)
59. The Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston (1949) offers further specifications. “To gain eternal salvation, it is not always required that a person be incorporated in reality (reapse) as a member of the Church, but it is necessary that one belong to it at least in desire and longing (voto et desiderio). It is not always necessary that this desire be explicit as it is with catechumens. 
When one is invincibly ignorant, God also accepts an implicit desire, so called because it is contained in the good disposition of soul by which a person wants his or her will to be conformed to God’s will”. - The Hope of Salvation for Infants who die without the being baptized', International Theological Commission,2007
(Lionel: The International Theological Commission,Vatican is implying here that  being invincibly ignorant, having an implicit desire are visible for us.For the ITC these cases are relevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.They are exceptions.The ITC is using the right hand column.)  
LEFT HAND SIDE COLUMN            or          RIGHT HAND SIDE COLUMN

All salvation referred to in Vatican Council II i.e saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16), imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3),seeds of the Word (AG 11), good and holy things in other religions (NA 2) etc are either:


implicit for us            or explicit for us.

hypothetical              or known in reality.

invisible                    or visible in the flesh.

dejure ( in principle) or defacto ( in fact ).

subjective                 or objective

So one can choose from the left hand side or the right hand side column.

If the right hand side column is chosen then Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors and Tradition in general on other religions and Christian communities and churches. There are known exceptions in 2014 to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Cathlic Church. The dead- saved are visible.

If the left hand side column is chosen then Vatican Council II does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus, nor Tradition on other religions and Christian communities and churches.

Most people interpret Vatican Council II with the right hand side values.

So the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance was never ever an exception to the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney, unless one is using the right hand side column.There were and are no known exceptions.
 
In 2014 the Padre Pio Prayer groups, the Neo Catechumenal Way, Charismatic Renewal, all the religious communities and most of the Diocesan priests are using the irrational column in the interpretation of Vatican Council II, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston 1949,Redemptoris Missio, Mystici Corporis etc.-Lionel Andrades
  
 
...and also Cardinal Walter Kaspar

 
 
 
 

 

Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Bishop Bernard Fellay have used the irrational column

You have often heard it said, “Outside the Church there is no salvation”--a dictum which offends contemporary minds... The doctrine of the Church also recognizes implicit baptism of desire. This consists in doing the will of God. God knows all men and He knows that amongst Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists and in the whole of humanity there are men of good will. They receive the grace of baptism without knowing it, but in an effective way. In this way they become part of the Church.The error consists in thinking that they are saved by their religion. They are saved in their religion but not by it. There is no Buddhist church in heaven, no Protestant church. This is perhaps hard to accept, but it is the truth. I did not found the Church, but rather Our Lord the Son of God. As priests we must state the truth.-Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre 1
(Lionel: Archbishop Lefebvre is implying here that the baptism of desire is visible for us.He is using the right hand column.) 
Evidently, certain distinctions must be made. Souls can be saved in a religion other than the Catholic religion (Protestantism,Islam,Buddhism etc) ,but not by this religion. There may be souls who, not knowing Our Lord, have by the grace of the good Lord, good interior dispositions, who submirt to God...But some of these persons make an act of love which implcitly is equivalent to baptism of desire .-Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre 2
(Lionel: Archbishop Lefebvre is implying here that the baptism of desire is visible for us.He is using the right hand column.If it was invisible for him he would not even have to mention it.)

The same declaration (LG, 8) also recognizes the presence of “salvific elements” in non-Catholic Christian communities. The decree on ecumenism goes even further, adding that “the Spirit of Christ does not refrain from using these churches and communities as means of salvation, which derive their efficacy from the fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church.” (UR, 3)
Such statements are irreconcilable with the dogma “No salvation outside of the Church,” which was reaffirmed by a Letter of the Holy Office on August 8, 1949...
The declaration Nostra aetate says that non-Christian religions “often reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all men,” although such men must find in Christ “the fullness of religious life;” it also “regards with sincere respect those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and doctrines.” (NA, 2) Such a claim must be criticized just as the preceding one... -Bishop Bernard Fellay 3 
(Lionel: Bishop Bernard Fellay infers here that LG 8 ( elements of sanctification and truth), UR 3 ( imperfect communion with the Church) and NA 2 ( ray of the Truth) are visible for us.He is using the right hand column).

 
LEFT HAND SIDE COLUMN or   RIGHT HAND SIDE COLUMN


All salvation referred to in Vatican Council II i.e saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16), imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3),seeds of the Word (AG 11), good and holy things in other religions (NA 2) etc are either:

implicit                     or explicit for us.

hypothetical             or known in reality.

invisible                    or visible in the flesh.

dejure ( in principle) or defacto ( in fact ).

subjective                  or objective  

 

So one can choose from the left hand side or the right hand side column.

If the right hand side column is chosen then Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors and Tradition in general on other religions and Christian communities and churches. There are known exceptions in 2014 to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Cathlic Church. The dead- saved are visible.

If the left hand side column is chosen then Vatican Council II does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus, nor Tradition on other religions and Christian communities and churches.

Most people interpret Vatican Council II with the right hand side values.

So the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance was never ever an exception to the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney, unless one is using the right hand side column.There were and are no known exceptions.
 
In 2014 the Padre Pio Prayer groups, the Neo Catechumenal Way, Charismatic Renewal, all the religious communities and most of the Diocesan priests, the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX), Archbishop Gerhard Muller, Archbishop Augustine Di Noi, Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J, Monsignor Guido Pozzo and the Vatican Council for the Clergy are using the irrational column in the interpretation of Vatican Council II, the Catechism of the Catholic Church,Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston 1949,Redemptois Missio, Mystici Corporis, Quanta Cura ...-Lionel Andrades








 
2
Against the Heresies, p.216.

3
http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/we-vigorously-protest-these-canonizations-3956

Roman Forum Summer Conference this month will use the right hand side column in the interpretation of Vatican Council II

 
The Roman Forum Conference beginning on June 30,2014 will review Vatican Council II using the irrational right  hand side column and then they will reject Vatican Council II.
If they used the left hand side column in the interpretation of Vatican Council II the interpretation would be rational and the Council would not be a break with the past.
The interpretation with the left or right hand side column decides if there is a hermeneutic of continuity or rupture. This is the missing link which makes Vatican Council II traditional or heretical.
We have found the missing link 1.The Roman Forum could discuss it.-L.A
 
LEFT HAND SIDE COLUMN - RIGHT HAND SIDE COLUMN

All salvation referred to in Vatican Council II i.e saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16), imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3),seeds of the Word (AG 11), good and holy things in other religions (NA 2) etc are either:

implicit                       or explicit for us.

hypothetical              or known in reality.

invisible                     or visible in the flesh.

dejure ( in principle) or defacto ( in fact ).

subjective                  or objective

So one can choose from the left hand side or the right hand side column.

If the right hand side column is chosen then Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors and Tradition in general on other religions and Christian communities and churches. There are known exceptions in 2014 to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Cathlic Church. The dead- saved are visible.

If the left hand side column is chosen then Vatican Council II does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus, nor Tradition on other religions and Christian communities and churches.

Most people interpret Vatican Council II with the right hand side values.

So the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance was never ever an exception to the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney, unless one is using the right hand side column.There were and are no known exceptions.
In 2014 the Padre Pio Prayer groups, the Neo Catechumenal Way, Charismatic Renewal, all the religious communities and most of the Diocesan priests, the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX), Archbishop Gerhard Muller, Archbishop Augustine Di Noi, Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J, Monsignor Guido Pozzo and the Vatican Council for the Clergy are using the irrational column in the interpretation of Vatican Council II, the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston 1949.- Lionel Andrades
 
1.
 

Have we learnt anything from the last 70 plus years ?- The Roman Forum has not
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/06/have-we-learnt-anything-from-last-70.html#links

Young Catholics will be taught objective error at the Roman Forum meeting this month http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/06/young-catholics-will-be-taught.html#links

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/03/frjohn-hunwicke-and-participants-at.html#links

________________________________________________


More nonsense on Rorate Caeili
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/01/more-nonsense-on-rorate-caeili.html#links

Archbishop Muller and the SSPX are both using the irrational interpretation of Vatican Council II with the false premise of being able to see people in Heaven
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/01/archbishop-muller-and-sspx-are-both.html#links

Archbishop Muller and the SSPX have compromised on the faith?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/01/archbishop-muller-and-sspx-have.html#links

There are Catholic religious and lay persons who use the the left hand side column in the interpretation of magisterial text


 
 
 There are Catholic religious  and lay persons who use the  the left hand side column in the interpretation of magisterial text.Here are some of them. 
 
 
Archbishop Thomas E.Gullickson has said that the Society of St.Pius X must know that adherence to Vatican Council II and the Catechism does not put them at odds with Tradition.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/11/archbishop-thomas-egullickson-has-said.html#links

REDEMPTORIST PRIEST SAYS VATICAN COUNCIL II DOES NOT CONTRADICT ITSELF NOR THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/10/redemptorist-priest-says-vatican.html#links

Implicit intention, invincible ignorance and a good conscience (LG 16) in Vatican Council II do not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus –John Martigioni http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/11/implicit-intention-invincible-ignorance.html#links
 
CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE ON EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS IS DE FIDE AND NOT CONTRADICTED BY VATICAN COUNCIL II- Fr. Nevus Marcello O.P http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/cantate-domino-council-of-florence-on.html
BRAZILIAN PRIEST SAYS VATICAN COUNCIL II DOES NOT CONTRADICT DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/brazilian-priest-says-vatican-council.html#links
 

LEGIONARY OF CHRIST PRIEST FR.RAFAEL PASCUAL AFFIRMS CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE  http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/legionary-of-christ-priest-frrafael.html
 
 
 
 
 
LEFT HAND SIDE COLUMN   -   RIGHT HAND SIDE COLUMN

All salvation referred to in Vatican Council II i.e saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16), imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3),seeds of the Word (AG 11), good and holy things in other religions (NA 2) etc are either:

implicit                       or explicit for us.

hypothetical              or known in reality.

invisible                     or visible in the flesh.

dejure ( in principle) or defacto ( in fact ).

subjective                  or objective                                          

So one can choose from the left hand side or the right hand side column.

If the right hand side column is chosen then Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors and Tradition in general on other religions and Christian communities and churches. There are known exceptions in 2014 to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Cathlic Church. The dead- saved are visible.

If the left hand side column is chosen then Vatican Council II does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus, nor Tradition on other religions and Christian communities and churches.

Most people interpret Vatican Council II with the right hand side values.

So the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance was never ever an exception to the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney, unless one is using the right hand side column.There were and are no known exceptions.


In 2014 the Padre Pio Prayer groups, the Neo Catechumenal Way, Charismatic Renewal, all the religious communities and most of the Diocesan priests, the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX), Archbishop Gerhard Muller, Archbishop Augustine Di Noi, Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J, Monsignor Guido Pozzo and the Vatican Council for the Clergy are using the irrational column in the interpretation of Vatican Council II, the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston 1949.- Lionel Andrades