Saturday, July 11, 2015

Catholic priests are only allowed to offer Mass if they say B is an exception to A


Bishop Edward Slattery celebrates an Extraordinary Form Mass at the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in Washington DC (CNS)

Catholic priests, who offer the Traditional Latin Mass and the Novus Ordo Mass have to say that B is an exception to A in the following two examples.
Example:
A
Here is the orthodox passage in Ad Gentes 7 which in accord with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.-AG 7


B
The following passage in Ad Gentes 7 is based on Marchetti assuming being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire were explicit for him in 1949 and so were exceptions to the traditional Feeneyite version of the dogma on salvation.

Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."(17) Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6)-AG 7


______________________________
A
The following passage from Lumen Gentium 14 is orthodox and in agreement with the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

 Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. -LG 14

B
The following passages from Lumen Gentium 14 also comes from the objective mistake Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani made in the Letter of the Holy Office. Why did they have to mention those saved with the baptism of desire (explicit intention) or infer there are those saved in invincible ignorance ? Why would they  be relevant to the orthodox passage above.How would they be relevant to the centuries-old dogma if they were not explicit and personally known? Why did they have to mention it in Vatican Council II?

Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.-LG 14

Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.-LG 14

B was placed in Vatican Council II since they assumed Marchetti was correct when he said there was salvation outside the Church. This was accepted by Pope Pius XII and Pope John XXIII.
Now we know that these cases cannot be exceptions since they are not explicit in our reality.So these are really superflous  passages, dead wood statements.


The contemporary magisterium interprets B as being an exception to A and the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.So ecclesiology has changed. The 'Feeneyite' version of the dogma is no more accepted.
Immagine correlata
So what if a priest says B is not an exception to A ? He would be rational but he would not be politically correct. He would be affirming the Feeneyite version of extra ecclesiam nulla salus. This would be considered 'crypto Lefebvre' by the Vatican.The priest offering the Traditional Latin Mass would then be affirming traditional ecclesiology with the Traditional Mass.It would be the old ecclesiology with the old rite.
-Lionel Andrades



So can the Traditional Latin Mass be offered by priests who consider B not an exception to A?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/07/so-can-traditional-latin-mass-be.html

So can the Traditional Latin Mass be offered by priests who consider B not an exception to A?

Bishop Edward Slattery celebrates an Extraordinary Form Mass at the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in Washington DC (CNS)Comment on the blog LMS Chairman
As a professor of theology at Oxford Joseph, you do not have the freedom to teach the old ecclesiology without Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani's irrational inference.This issue is also central to offering the Traditional Latin Mass under the pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI and Pope Francis.

Without Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani's irrationality, used in the interpretation of Vatican Council II ,no priest is being allowed to offer the Traditional Latin Mass or the Novus Ordo Mass. This was not mentioned in the article.

The article in the CH does not say that the let and and let live attitude is restricted to only those who discard the old ecclesiology. It is a live and let live attitude only when it is the old rite with the new ecclesiology.

If a Catholic priest in England were to affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus in accord with Vatican Council II he would get the same treatment as the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate.

Why did Vatican Council II have to mention being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire in Vatican Council II (AG 7,LG 14) along with orthodox passages ? It was to accomodate the error which came from the 1949 Letter of the Holy Office.This error was approved by Pope Pius XII.
Example:

A

Here is the orthodox passage in Ad Gentes 7 in accord with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.-AG 7

B

The following passage in Ad Gentes 7 is based on Marchetti assuming being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire were explicit for us in the present times, and so were exceptions to the traditional Feeneyite version of the dogma on salvation.

Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."(17) Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6)-AG 7

If you interpret B as being implicit, invisible for us and known only to God , it is not an exception to A. The ecclesiology remains traditional.

The New Ecclesiology is based on accepting B as being explicit, objecitve and seen in the flesh, in the present times.

So can the Traditional Latin Mass be offered by priests who consider B not an exception to A? No mention of this in your article.

Why did Vatican Council II have to mention 'imperfect communion with the Church' (UR3) or 'seeds of the word'(AG 11) as a means of salvation? It is because of the error in 1949 which infers there is known salvation outside the Church and all do not need to be formal members of the Church in the present times.This is the new theology, it is based on there being known salvation outside the Church; all not needing 'faith and baptism'(AG 7). This is the new ecclesiology it is a rejection of Feeneyism with an irrational premise ( salvation with the baptism of desire etc are personally known in the present times) and irrational inference ( since they are known BOD, BOB, I.I. refer to known exceptions to the Feeneyite version of extra ecclesiam nulla salus).

So can a priest offer the Traditional Latin Mass when he considers Vatican Council II as not being a break with the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, since salvation in Heaven is not visible to us on earth, for any one to be exceptions to the old ecclesiology ?

This point was not covered in your article.
-Lionel Andrades
 
 
 
Pope Francis permits the Traditional Latin Mass only with the new ecclesiology and compromise : Joseph Shaw looks the other way