Ave Maria, performed by the Sistine Chapel Choir : Piazza Spagna, Dec.8

Seidenspinner

 1  1  471 yesterday

Ave Maria, performed by the Sistine Chapel Choir

01:41

Catholic Sat on Twitter: "Sistine Chapel Choir beautifully sing the Ave Maria, as Pope Francis prays in silence under the statue of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary in Piazza di … More

Salvini promised a return to Italy's traditional roots, saying: "We will be be judged by the number of cribs we fill, with babies born not to Parent one or Parent two but to a mother and a father."

De Profundis

yesterday

Salvini also promised a return to Italy's traditional roots, saying: "We will be be judged by the number of cribs we fill, with babies born not to Parent one or Parent two but to a mother and a father."

 cnn.com

Salvini holds 'Italians first' rally in Rome to celebrate six months in power

Rome (CNN)Far-right Italian Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini attacked same-sex unions and promised to put "Italians first" during a rally in …

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/08/europe/salvini-italy-rome-rally-intl/index.html+

https://gloria.tv/language/S2mQ8XjTcSwL3q8noxk8XEbJo

Vatican Council II supports the stict interpretation of the dogma EENS not disputed

Comment on the blog The Eponymous Flower

Peter,

So you do not dispute theologically, that Vatican Council II supports the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS). Thank you. I am glad you agree with me, even though it may be grudgingly. This is the point I have been trying to get across to the traditionalists.

 Peter W said...

Ultimately Lionel, this obsessive preoccupation with the EENS doctrine is fruitless because it presumes that God's freedom is constrained by Church doctrine especially this one which is so clearly conditioned by historical, ideological and cultural circumstances.

Lionel: EENS is an indication on how God will judge people. It is based on John 3.5 and Mark 16:16. It is the teaching of the Church guided by the Holy Spirit.

Inspite of ideological, historical and cultural attempts to suppress it, it has made a clear comeback and you do not dispute that it is supported by Vatican Council II (AG 7).

__________________________

 In effect, Lionel, the Church has ditched this no matter what authorities you quote even Vatican II which has paralleled ecclesiologies and Christologies just to keep everyone happy.

Lionel: The present ecclesiastics have 'ditched it' under pressure from the Left who generally represent Satan.But it is only temporary.

Truth has a way of asserting itself independent of us.

_______________________

 It was the post Vatican II selective application of the council by the 2800 Council Fathers that has resulted in the quiet shelving of EENS.

Lionel: It was ignorance which did it.There was also a cover up by the CDF etc. Now the truth is out. People know that invisible and non existing people cannot be exceptions to EENs.They know that a person-saved without the baptism of water cannot be visible in Heaven and on earth at the same time.

_______________________ 

Get used to it. It'll be so much easier on your nervous system as well as your spiritual and psychological well being.

Lionel. I affirm EENS which is the teaching of the Catholic Church before, in and after Vatican Council II. It is guided by the Holy Spirit. I do not have to fight with the truth. It's a wonderful situation.

All the loose ends are tied and there no more is confusion on this subject.

Some 20 years back I asked myself : when I meet a non Catholic is he going to Heaven or Hell. I asked priests too and they could not answer.

Now the answer is clear,since Vatican Council II does not contradict EENS and nor itself for me.

When I meet a non Catholic I know that he or she is on the way to Hell since EENS is the norm and BOD, BOB and I.I are not the norm.

Also practically there cannot be exceptions to the norm; to EENS.-Lionel Andrades

http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2018/12/vatican-places-traditional-society.html

Thomas More College of Liberal Arts (TMC) is unaware of the mistake in Vatican Council II: Church documents and saints contradict themselves for the faculty

There is a mistake in Vatican Council II and this is not known to the faculty at the Thomas More College of Liberal Arts(TMC).

The Council Fathers wrongly assumed hypothetical cases were non hypothetical.They were objective examples of salvation outside the Catholic Church.So the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) was contradicted.Hypothetical and invisible cases of the  baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) were assumed to be visible.The result is, in Vatican Council II along with orthodox passages supporting EENS there are unorthodox passages , which were exceptions to EENS for the Council Fathers. Though now we know that they are not exceptions.


IGNORANCE OF THE PERITI

So Vatican Council II seems to contradict itself today because of the ignorance of the periti. This is misinterpreted in LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2,GS 22 etc. They should not have been mentioned in the Council.Mentioning them was a mistake.
The Council Fathers permitted them in the text since they were seen as  objective exceptions to EENS and Ad Gentes 7 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation. All.

At Vatican Council II Cardinal Richard Cushing, the American Jesuits, Fr. Joseph Ratzinger, Fr. Karl Rahner,Archbishop Lefebvre,Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani,Monsignor Fenton, Cardinal Bea,Cardinal Bacci and Pope Paul VI overlooked the error in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.The Holy Office(CDF) Letter assumed hypothetical cases of the BOD, BOB and I.I were concrete and visible exceptions to the dogma EENS.They were personally known people saved outside the Church even for Pope Benedict, as recently as March 2016 (Avvenire).

TMC IRRATIONAL, NON TRADITIONAL

For the faculty at the TMC and the bishops in New Hampshire, Boston and New England,USA today there are personally known non Catholics saved outside the Church. For them they are referenced in BOD, BOB and I.I and LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc.This is irrational , non traditional and clearly false.The bad reasoning is at the basis of the New Theology of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops(USCCB). It is approved by the Left for the Archdiocese of Boston today as it was at the time of Cardinal Richard Cushing.

VATICAN COUNCIL II

So while I affirm Vatican Council II in harmony with the strict interpretation of the dogma EENS the TMC faculty do not do the same.For me Ad Gentes 7 says all need faith and baptism for salvation while LG 8 etc are not exceptions to AG 7.The TMC faculty are confused by the built in error in the Council text. Since LG 8 is mentioned in Vatican Council II the Council Fathers made a mistake. This is not known at the TMC.

So for me Vatican Council II is not a rupture with Tradition (EENS, Syllabus of Errors, ecumenism of return). 

EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS

I affirm the strict interpretation of the dogma EENS like the Magisterium in the 16th century.The TLC considers BOD, BOB and I.I exceptions to EENS.They make the same mistake as the popes did in the Boston Case and then again at Vatican Council II.

 

For me the Catechisms are not a rupture with Tradition when they mention BOD, BOB and I.I and LG 8 etc.But for the TMC the Catechisms are a rupture with the Syllabus of Errors  and EENS. They contradict Vatican Council II(AG 7).Vatican Council II contradicts itself, LG 16 against AG 7.

The Catechism of Pope Pius X for example, says all need to be members of the Church for salvation.The same catechism mentions being saved in invincible ignorance. For TMC invincible ignorance refers to known people saved outside the Church.For the faculty they are objective exceptions to the teaching on all needing to be members of the  Catholic Church for salvation.So the message is every one needs to enter the Church but some do not ! 

NICENE CREED

For the TMC faculty the Nicene Creed really says, ' I believe in three or more known baptisms for the forgiveness of sins, they are desire, blood and invincible ignorance and they all exclude the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.' This is a first class heresy in the hierarchy of truths of Pope John Paul II.

APOSTLES CREED
In the Apostles Creed we say' I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church'. For the faculty at the TMC  the Holy Spirit teaches the Church that outside the Church there is known salvation and invisible and unknown non Catholics are known and visible exceptions to EENS. So they no more support the strict interpretation of the dogma EENS like in the 16th century.
This is irrational and heretical for me.The Holy Spirit did not teach the Church this in the past  and neither does it do so today.
So the understanding of the Apostles Creed, like that of the Nicene Creed and Athanasius Creed, is different today, as compared to the 16th century.
When hypothetical cases of BOD,BOB and I.I are assumed to be non hypothetical I call it Cushingism. 
When hypothetical cases are just hypothetical and not objective people in the present times, I call it Feeneyism.
The TMC faculty like the ecclesiastics in the USA are Cushingites.They are irrational, non traditional and heretical.

AQUINAS CONTRADICTS HIMSELF FOR TMC
They are non-traditional and a rupture with St. Thomas Aquinas.He held the strict interpretation of EENS.Hypothetical and speculative cases of BOD,BOB and I.I could only be speculative.They were not objective exceptions to his traditional understanding of no salvation outside the Church.They were not exceptions to his 'Feeneyite' understanding of EENS.The TMC would misinterpret Aquinas when he mentions the speculative man in the forest in ignorance or the case of the unknown catechumen saved with only the desire for the baptism of water.

CATECHISM OF PIUS X CONTRADICTS ITSELF FOR TMC
The faculty are a rupture with the Catechism of Pope Pius X which says all need to be members of the Church for salvation. This Catechism is Feeneyite . Since when it mentions I.I etc  they are not visible and practically known exceptions to EENS.But the Catechisms are interpreted with Cushingism.This is the teaching norm at TMC.

NOT MAGISTERIAL- HOLY SPIRIT CANNOT MAKE A MISTAKE
So what is being taught at the TMC is approved by the present ecclesiastics in New England and at the Vatican but it is not magisterial. In the sense that the magisterium is guided by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit cannot make a mistake.
The present two popes, like all the cardinals and bishops, like the TMC have made an objective mistake. 

VIOLATES THE PRINCIPLE OF NON CONTRADICTION
They violate the Principle of Non Contradiction.
There is is a factual error. It is a fact of life that we cannot physically see people saved in Heaven and neither in general can we see them on earth.So people saved in Heaven with BOD, BOB and I.I who cannot be seen on earth  cannot be objective examples of salvation outside the Church. They cannot be exceptions to the traditional teaching on all needing to be members of the Catholic Church for salvation.People who do not exist in our reality cannot be exceptions.

NO KNOWN EXCEPTIONS TO AN ECUMENISM OF RETURN
So the present popes have made a human error.They are not magisterial on this issue.
There cannot really be any known exceptions to EENS.There are no known exceptions to the past ecclesiology and an ecumenism of return.
So when we read the text of Vatican Council II we must be aware that there were Cushingites in 1960-1965.We must not interpret hypothetical cases as being relevant or exceptions to EENS.The Cushingite passages are not exceptions to the Feeneyite passages.
The ecclesiology of the Church before and after Vatican Council II is still the same. Vatican Council II is Feeneyite and traditional.-Lionel Andrades

DECEMBER 8, 2018

Thomas More College of Liberal Arts rejects Catholic Tradition by irrationally interpreting Vatican Council II. This has the approval of the two popes, the political Left and the college accreditors :I support Tradition by re-interpreting Vatican Council II rationally.

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/12/thomas-more-college-of-liberal-arts.html

DECEMBER 7, 2018

Alleged faithful college coming to New England,USA is Cushingite and not Feeneyite : interprets Vatican Council II and Catechism with an irrational premise to create a hermeneutic of rupture with Tradition

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/12/alleged-faithful-college-coming-to-new.html