Monday, February 23, 2015

The magisterium is taking advantage of their ignorance.

When a Catholic marries a non Catholic then they are living in adultery. Yet this is not told to the couple
Marie,The dogma says there is no salvation outside the Church and also Vatican Council II says all need faith and baptism for salvation. When a Catholic marries a non Catholic then they are living in adultery. Yet this is not told to the couple.
So if Bishops who do not believe in the dogma, grant an annulment or dispensation it is not traditional. It is not valid.
Since the couple are still living in an objective state of sin.

It is like Cardinal Kaspar and the pope proposing that Holy Communion be given to the divorced and re married, after a ritual of penance.
That exercise of penance would be the same as the annulment or approval of a Catholic inter faith marriage.
We have the objective rejection of the dogma. In theory and practice the dogma has been rejected. This is schism. It is magisterial schism.
We do not know of any one saved outside the Church, that is without faith and baptism. So there are no known exceptions to the dogma.

"Until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers — even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty — do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.”

Yes, the SSPX must clarify precisely that the magisterium is using an irrationality to interpret Vatican Council II thus creating a new doctrine and rejecting the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. This is heresy and material schism. They cannot accept this irrationality.Doctrinally, they should ask the magisterium to interpret Vatican Council II without the premise. Then Vatican Council II will be in agreement with the traditional strict interpretation of the dogma. Then it can be clearly said that those Catholics who marry non Catholics are living in sin and they should get their marraige regularised. Their non Catholic spouse should convert into the Catholic Church.
Marie Since extra ecclesiam nulla salus is not contradicted it would mean Vatican Council II does not contradict the traditional teaching on other religions and Christian communities.They are not paths to salvation.
Then should they ask the Vatican to accept this rational interpretation of Vatican Council II.
Would the Vatican be willing to say that Vatican Council II says all Hindus, Buddhist, Jews, Muslims and Christians need to formally convert into the Catholic Church to avoid Hell'This is presently the SSPX view but they are not citing Vatican Council II (without the premise) to support their view
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The magisterium is taking advantage of their ignorance.

-Lionel Andrades
 
 
 
 
February 23, 2015
Bishop Fellay uses a false premise when he assumes LG 8 refers to visible in the flesh cases : Doctrine has not changed unless you use a false premise.
 

The Faith Doesn’t Matter - Deacon Rosica rejects the dogma on salvation

The Faith Doesn’t Matter
http://youtu.be/iMoGhMP3aXI





Conflicts of Interest : Adultery and sodomy are mortal sins Fr.Rosica
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/02/conflicts-of-interest-adultery-and.html

Speaker at SSPX/Fatima conferences in adultery?

I have sent Louie Verrecchio these blog posts but there is no comment or denial from him.1 The video can be seen on John Vennari's blog Catholic Family News 2. Vennari  praises the video,  and says ' Good work Louie'.


 
According to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus Louie's wife is outside the Church and on the way to Hell.They are living in an irregular situation. Even if Bishop Robert C.Morlino or some other U.S bishop does not accept the dogma and regularises the marriage with some ritual or exercise it still is adultery and the marriage is not  Sacramental.

It would be like Cardinal Walter Kaspar wanting to give Holy Communion to divorced and married couples after they go through an act of penance.This would be an exercise which is non traditional and not valid. Mortal sins can only be absolved in the Sacrament of Confession.

 Louie Verrecchio is critical of the Novus Ordo liturgy. It is at the Novus Ordo Mass that they do not tell the Catholic spouse in an inter faith marriage that he or she is living in mortal sin and should not receive the Eucharist at Mass.
 
  Instead on the World Over video Bishop Robert C.Morlino encourages Jews and Catholics to marry and tells them not to be afraid.He is willing to give the Eucharist to those who reject the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus but is not willing to give the Eucharist to divorced and marriage Catholics. This is the irrational position also of his interviewer Raymond Arroyo .




Similarly Cardinal Burke would give the Eucharist to Catholics who reject the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus with the Marchetti inference but to the divorced and remarried he would resist.

Louie Verrecchio speaks at SSPX and the Fatima Network Conferences with John Vennari, John Salza, Cornelia Ferrara and SSPX priests. 

It is because the Feeneyite, strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus is not accepted by all, including the  traditionalists, it is possible for Catholics to marry non Catholics, and it is not considered adultery.This was a change in 'faith and morals'.Bishops and priests too , do not accept the Feeneyite version of the dogma.So they will canonically approve an interfaith marriage as if it is a Catholic Sacrament.Louie Verrecchio can receive the Eucharist at Mass and has the canonical approval of liberal bishops.

What was formerly considered adultery was possible for Louie, since the U.S bishops reject the dogma as interpreted by the Church Fathers, Church Councils, popes, saints and Fr.Leonard Feeney of Boston.They also reject Vatican Council II (AG 7,LG 14) in its literal sense.It agrees with the strict interpretation of the dogma. Instead they interpret the dogma as interpreted by Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani, Cardinal Richard Cushing and the popes who followed and assumed that salvation in Heaven refers to living cases on earth. So the teachings of St.Alphonsus Liguouri and the other saints, on this subject, has been superseded.This was told to me the other day by two young Redemptorist priests studying at the Alphonsianum University in Rome.

If Verrecchio accepted this traditional understanding of extra ecclesiam nulla salus ( i.e there are no known exceptions) he would have to admit that he was living in adultery.It is only the Marchetti premise which prevents him accepting extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was known in the Church before 1949. He now is supported by 'the Novus Ordo Church' which he otherwise criticizes. -Lionel Andrades

1.

February 19, 2015 

For Bishop Robert C. Morlino, Louie Verrecchio and Robert Sungenis the Church's teaching on marriage, the family and salvation has changed http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/02/for-bishop-robert-c-morlino-louie.html


February 18, 2015
Bishop Robert C. Morlino says doctrines cannot be changed yet on salvation he has accepted a change in doctrine and practise http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/02/bishop-robert-c-morlino-says-doctrines.html
 
February 18, 2015
Louie Verrecchio's wife is not Catholic, he interprets the dogma on exclusive salvation with an irrational premise and so it is not a sin for him http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/02/louie-verrecchios-wife-is-not-catholic.html

2.
 
 
 

Conflicts of Interest : Adultery and sodomy are mortal sins Fr.Rosica


Conflicts of Interest
http://youtu.be/dydUQvicdfE

IL CONCILIO VATICANO DICE TUTTI I MUSALMANI, EBREI A ROMA,ITALIA STA ANDANDO AD INFERNO / VATICAN COUNCIL II SAYS ALL MUSLIMS, JEWS IN ROME, ITALY ARE GOING TO HELL

(Ho trovato un vecchio opuscolo per i cattolici -L.A)

 
 
 
 
 
 
Il Concilio Vaticano II indica che tutti i musulmani ed ebrei a Roma e in Italia sono sul  via d’inferno. La Bibbia, la Chiesa e il Concilio Vaticano II dicono che gli ebrei e i  musulmani devono convertire in Chiesa Cattolica per andare a cielo. Tutti. Ad Gentes 7 dice che la Fede Cattolica e il battesimo dell’acqua ha bisogno tutti per salvezza. Tutto significa tutto senza le eccezioni.

È dunque necessario che tutti si convertano al Cristo conosciuto attraverso la predicazione della Chiesa, ed a lui e alla Chiesa, suo corpo, siano incorporati attraverso il battesimo (39). Cristo stesso infatti, « ribadendo espressamente la necessità della fede e del battesimo (cfr. Mc 16,16; Gv 3,5), ha confermato simultaneamente la necessità della Chiesa, nella quale gli uomini entrano, per così dire, attraverso la porta del battesimo…- Ad Gentes 7,Concilio Vaticano II
Ad Gentes 7 inoltre dice che coloro sanno circa Gesù e la Chiesa Cattolica ma non entrano sono sul senso a inferno. In Italia i musulmani e gli ebrei sanno circa Gesù e la Chiesa Cattolica. È un peccato mortale di fede quando non entrano nella chiesa cattolica.
non possono salvarsi quegli uomini i quali, pur sapendo che la Chiesa cattolica è stata stabilita da Dio per mezzo di Gesù Cristo come istituzione necessaria, tuttavia rifiutano o di entrare o di rimanere in essa…- Ad Gentes 7,Concilio Vaticano II 
Perciò non possono salvarsi quegli uomini, i quali, pur non ignorando che la Chiesa cattolica è stata fondata da Dio per mezzo di Gesù Cristo come necessaria, non vorranno entrare in essa o in essa perseverare…- Lumen Gentium 14, Concilio Vaticano II.
Così chieda al vostro sacerdote di parrocchia perché lo non fa parlare a questo proposito? Tanta gente sta andando a inferno e non parla o non scrive a questo proposito? Sta proteggendo se stesso?

(I found an old pamphlet for Catholics- L.A )
 






VATICAN COUNCIL II SAYS ALL MUSLIMS, JEWS IN ROME, ITALY ARE GOING TO HELL

Contrary to what your parish priest has been saying Vatican Council II indicates that  all Muslims and Jews in Rome and Italy are on the way to Hell.

So get this message across to the people so that they can conduct Catholic Mission and Evangelization based on the truth.

Do not hide it from Catholics in the parishes that the Bible, the Church and of course Vatican Council II says Jews and Muslims need to convert into the Catholic Church to go to Heaven. All of them.

The Council says this is in two important places .In Ad Gentes 7 it says all people need Catholic Faith and the Baptism of water for salvation. All means everyone with no exceptions.
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.-Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II.
Then Ad Gentes 7 also says those who know about Jesus and the Catholic Church and yet do not enter are on the way to Hell. In Italy Muslims and Jews know about Jesus and the Catholic Church. It is a mortal sin of faith when they do not enter the Catholic Church.
Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it.- Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council IIWhosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.-Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II
So ask your parish priest why has he not spoken on this subject?

Is he trying to protect someone?

So many people are going to Hell and he does not speak or write about it?
Is he protecting himself?

_________________________________________
 
Lionel Andrades       Blog: Eucharist and Mission  E-mail: lionelandrades10@gmail.com
 
Faccia le copie, traduca e distribuisca in parrocchie.

The dogma says all need to convert for salvation. How can we presume that any one is an exception ?

 
Baptism of Blood, Baptism of Desire and Invincible Ignorance are completely irrelevant to The Church Millitant who do possess the truth and are commanded to teach the truth.
Lionel:
I agree with you when you say that the baptism of desire and blood are not exceptions to the dogma they are irrelevant.So we proclaim the strict interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus , knowing there are no exceptions and there cannot be any exception for us human beings.
How do you reconcile this with the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1257) saying 'God is not limited to the Sacraments'? This still is the issue in our discussions.
For me it is clear that Cardinal Ratzinger like Cardinal Marchetti did not know of any one who is saved outside the Church. So there cannot be any exception to the Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257 also saying the Church knows of no means to eternal beatitude other than the baptism of water.
 Since Cardinal Marchetti in 1949 assumed that the baptism of desire etc were known to us in personal cases and these persons were saved without the baptism of water, he concluded that there was salvation outside the Church.He did not know of any exception to the dogmatic teaching but inferred there was an exception.This was his mistake.The deceased cannot be exceptions.
So Lumen Gentium  14 and Ad Gentes  7, Vatican Council II  says only those who know need to enter the Church. This statement comes from the Marchetti Inference. It was an irrationality in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949, which he issued. Since the deceased who now in Heaven, cannot be exceptions to the dogma.We cannot name any one in 2015 who is in Heaven without the baptism of water and Catholic Faith.
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If you were simply to post: ENTER, RETURN and STAY as your Battle Cry, everything else gets addressed.
Lionel:
ENTER, RETURN AND STAY!
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If any Catholic tells you, me or anyone that we cannot or must not teach that all must enter, return or stay in the Catholic Church and be baptized with water in order to be saved they are in great need of proper Church catechesis or in very serious sin.
Lionel:
They are also possibily confused with the mistake made in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.
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We the Church Millitant are commanded and completely embrace the truth that all Catholics must teach to ALL that that they must enter, stay or return to the Catholic Church and that they must have Baptism by water in order to be saved.
 Even if we presumed God forbid, that someone, anyone will be saved by Baptism of Desire, Baptism of Blood or Invincible Ignorance
Lionel:
Here we go again...Why must we presume this? How can we presume something only known to Jesus. The dogma says all need to convert for salvation. How can we presume that any one is an exception ?
____________________
we must tell them, along with all Catholics and non Catholics that they must join the Catholic Church and have baptism by water in order to be saved for that is what Jesus commanded us to do.
Lionel:
Yes.
-Lionel Andrades

Bishop Fellay uses a false premise when he assumes LG 8 refers to visible in the flesh cases : Doctrine has not changed unless you use a false premise.

Lionel:
Patty,In this link do you think that Bishop Fellay was not aware of the irrational premise?
Do you think he made an objective mistake?

April 23-Sept.11, 2014 - still no clarification from the SSPX
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/09/april-23-sept112014-still-no.html
_________________

Patty :
It is my view that Bishop Fellay stated precisely what he intended to say.

Lionel:
'The same declaration (LG. 8) also recognizes the presence of “salvific elements” in non-Catholic Christian communities' and the SSPX bishop concludes that 'Such statements are irreconcilable with the dogma “No salvation outside of the Church,” which was reaffirmed by a Letter of the Holy Office on August 8, 1949.'
Patty the dogma says all need to formally enter the Church and it does not mention any exceptions. So how is LG 8 an exception to the dogma for Bishop Fellay and the SSPX ?Do you know of any any exceptions to the dogma? Can you name them? Would Bishop Fellay be able to name any case ?Do you see what I mean ? This is an issue of doctrine. It is at the center of the SSPX canonical status issue.
Doctrine has not changed unless you use a false premise.
The false premise is that we can see and known in the present times people who are in Heaven.
So the false conclusion is that these deceased now in Heaven are living, explicit, objective exceptions to all needing faith and baptism for salvation.
 Bishop Fellay uses a false premise when he assumes LG 8 refers to visible in the flesh cases.
Bishop Fellay does not realize that there are no exceptions to the dogma in Vatican Council II.There can never be an exceptions since we cannot see the dead who are now in Heaven.
____________________________
 
But, again, in charity, I would say that you should pursue clarification at the source. Anything less would be conjecture and likely add to confusion.
Lionel:
I don't know how to do it.I have been sending regular e-mails to the SSPX sources in the USA , Econe, Italy etc for the last few years.They still don't know what I am talking about.They are full of the Marchetti theology.
The Vatican knows precisely what I am saying. They are keeping silent. They are not going to say that the Council affirms the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.The Rome Vicariate is preventing priests from speaking about this including those who offer the Traditional Latin Mass. This issue is monitored by the Jewish Left here.

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That said, if you hold the view that this misperception of '49 is 'the' pivot point for breaking from what the Church has always taught, I suggest, instead of stating what the Society must do, that you take the onus to do it yourself.
Lionel:
I have been writing about this subject on my blog.I have been posting material on this subject to different people.I have visited Vatican offices.
On the other hand this is not a personal theology or a point of view.
It is a fact of life that we cannot see the dead who are now saved in Heaven.This is a given.
So how can Marchetti and the SSPX ( and you?) imply that the baptism of desire- cases are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?
We are back to the questions I asked earlier. Where are these exceptions in 2015? What are their names and surnames?
How can people in Heaven be explicit exceptions to the dogma on earth?
They would have to exist in our reality to be exceptions.
If you Patty infer that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions to the dogma, then it is a factual error. You are saying that the deceased are living exceptions to the traditional teaching. In other words that you and all of us can see and know the dead.
Do you follow me? Do you agree?
I asked you those questions to see if you had understood what I had said.

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You'd rather be barking up the wrong tree in expecting someone you believe misguided on such a critical issue to take up your banner and pursue Rome.
Lionel:
It is not my banner. It is something objective and known to all people that we cannot see or know in the present times(2015) people in Heaven who could be exceptions to the traditional teaching on salvation.
This only has to be understood!

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Again, that's just my take on it. Not gospel...and no finger wag by any means.
Lionel:
I understand.
-Lionel Andrades
For the SSPX magisterial teachings are accepted on the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 but rejected with respect to Vatican Council II (with the premise) http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/02/for-sspx-magisterial-teachings-are.html
 
August 24, 2014
April 13-August 24,2014 and still no correction or clarification from Bishop Bernard Fellay http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/08/april-13-august-242014-and-still-no.html#links