Irrespective
of how the Rhine Group moved at Vatican Council II, the schemas prepared and
the liberal appointments on various committees, we have discovered, today, Vatican Council II is
traditional, rational, conservative and non liberal when it is interpreted
rationally i.e. LG 8,14,1,5,16,UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc, refer to hypothetical
cases only. They do not refer to personally- known- to- us non Catholics, saved outside
the Catholic Church in 2024.
With
one simple action, which is, to look at invisible cases as being only
invisible, we undo the work of Rahner and Ratzinger. Vatican Council II becomes
Feeneyite and is no more Cushingite. The conclusion of the Council changes
radically and dramatically before our very eyes. Anyone can check it out!
The Ecumenical Vatican Council II: A Much Needed Discussion By Monsignor Brunero Gherardini
https://store.catholicism.org/the-ecumenical-vatican-council-ii-a-much-needed-discussion.htmlAll
those books on Vatican Council II written by the Jesuits and others (Gavin D’Costa
etc) with a liberal interpretation (assuming LG 16 is a
visible non Catholic saved outside the Church in 1965-2024) are obsolete
– and so are the books of Amerio Romano, Roberto dei Mattei, Brunero Gheradini
and Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. They are also written with the
false premise (invisible cases are visible).
We
now know how to identify precisely, the New Theology, and so know how to
eliminate the error. We avoid the mistake of the 1949 Letter of the Holy Office
to the Archbishop of Boston (LOHO). We do not confuse invisible cases of the
baptism of desire etc as being visible examples of salvation outside the
Catholic Church in the present times.
Why
should we continue to interpret LG 8, 14, 15, 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc, as
being physically visible cases when they are always invisible for us?
And
when there are no physically visible examples of salvation outside the Catholic
Church, then why should we claim there are exceptions for the dogma EENS, just
because Pope Francis says so ?
EXAMPLE
In
a box of oranges, an apple is an exception because it is different but also
because it is there in that box at that time. If it would not be there it would
not be an exception. An exception has to exist. We cannot see or meet someone
saved outside the Church, with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance.
These are invisible cases for us human beings.
We cannot meet someone saved in ‘imperfect communion with the ‘(UR 3), with good will (GS 22), where the Church subsists outside its visible boundaries (LG 8) etc. 1 They are invisible in 2024. They can only be known to God.
So today we have returned to the old theology which says outside the
Catholic Church there is no salvation. The New Theology which says outside the
Church there is salvation is now finished.
Whatever was gained by the liberals at Vatican Council II, based upon the New Theology of the 1949 LOHO, is now lost.There cannot be ' a development of doctrine' when Vatican Council II is interpreted rationally.
NO BOOKS ON THIS SUBJECT
This information is unprecedented. There are no books on this subject which
you can consult. But anyone can understand that LG 8, 14, 15, 16 etc always
refer to hypothetical cases only. One does not have to know theology.
I do not have an academic degree in theology or philosophy and neither have
I written a book on this subject. So my blog Eucharist and Mission (eucharistandmission)
is the only reference you have. What I am sharing here is an insight i.e. there
are no physically visible cases of being saved in invincible ignorance or the
baptism of desire.
I am not a liberal and neither a Lefebvrist. Both groups follow the 1949
LOHO.
I anchor myself on Vatican Council II (rational). This is the Conciliar Church for me. Like the historical Church, it still says, ' in Heaven there are only Catholics. - Lionel Andrades
1
THESE ARE REFERENCES TO INVISIBE CASES IN 2023. THEY ARE NOT VISIBLE EXAMPLES OF SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH. THEY ARE NOT OBJECTIVE EXCEPTIONS FOR THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS, THE ATHANASIUS CREED AND THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS OF POPE PIUS IX.
This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13*) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.- Lumen Gentium 8, Vatican Council II
Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II
But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator… Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.- Lumen Gentium 16, Vatican Council II.
Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.
The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation. – Unitatis Redintigratio 3 Vatican Council II
The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. – Nostra Aetate 2, Vatican Council II.
All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way. For, since Christ died for all men,(32) and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery.- Gaudium et Specs 22, Vatican Council II
The passages marked in red
refer to hypothetical and invisible cases and so do not contradict the orthodox
passages, here marked in blue and neither the dogma EENS.
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."(17) Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6), yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16). - Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II
THE RED IS NOT AN EXCEPTION FOR THE BLUE.
14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism124 and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church…
Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II.
THE RED IS NOT AN EXCEPTION FOR THE BLUE.
The passage in Red refers to hypothetical and invisible cases in the present times. The passage in Blue are orthodox and support the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.The passages in Red do not contradict the passages in Blue.
APRIL 12, 2024
Irrespective of who was present at Vatican Council II and which group he belonged to and what he said or did, the Council is traditional and exclusivist , when LG 8,14,1,5,16,UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc, are interpreted as hypothetical cases only. The Council always has a hermeneutic of continuity
Irrespective of who was present at Vatican Council II and which group he belonged to and what he said or did, the Council is traditional and exclusivist , when LG 8,14,1,5,16,UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc, are interpreted as hypothetical cases only. The Council always has a hermeneutic of continuity with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus defined by three Church Councils, which did not mention any exceptions. There is a harmony with the exclusivist Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX.
Irrespective of the presence at Vatican Council II of the Rhine Group, Fr.Karl Rahner and Fr. Joseph Ratzinger, Vatican Council II today emerges orthodox and conservative, when LG 8, 14, 15, 16, UR 3, NA2, GS 22 etc, are seen as theoretical only, they are always hypothetical, and they exist only in our mind. We can accept them in principle (de jure) but they are not defacto known cases in 2024.
This was understood by Fr. Aldo Rossi the former Prior of the SSPX Albano.
It was understood by Bishop Athanasius Schneider when he told Dr. Taylor Marshall that there are no literal cases of the baptism of desire.
It was understood by Dr. Taylor Marshall when he confirmed for Schneider, that there were no explicit cases of St.Thomas Aquinas’ implicit baptism of desire. -Lionel Andrades
APRIL 11, 2024
The Coetus International Patrum did not know that if LG 8, 14, 15, 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc in Vatican Council II referred to invisible cases in the present time (a fact overlooked in the 1949 Letter of the Holy Office) then there was nothing in Vatican Council II to contradict the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).
The Coetus International Patrum did not know that if LG 8, 14, 15, 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc in Vatican Council II referred to invisible cases in the present time (a fact overlooked in the 1949 Letter of the Holy Office) then there was nothing in Vatican Council II to contradict the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).
So the Council returns to Tradition immediately.
With the dogma EENS and the exclusivity of the Athanasius Creed intact there is nothing in the Council-text to negate the non separation of Church and State, the Social Reign of Christ in all legislation, the traditional ecumenism of return, traditional mission based upon exclusive salvation in the Catholic and general orthodoxy.
The Council is no more liberal. It has the hermeneneutic of continuity with Tradition.
This series does not discuss what would be the conclusion of Vatican Council II, if LG 8, 14, 15, and 16, UR 3, NA 2, and GS 22 referred to only hypothetical cases, invisible people in 1965-2024? Instead this series is based upon LG 8, 14, 1, 5, 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc being examples of physically visible and known non Catholics saved outside the Church in 1965-2024.
For example. Lumen Gentium 8 refers to where the Church subsists outside its visible boundaries. For the SSPX priests LG 8 is an exception for the dogma EENS. So they imply that LG 8 refers to a known person saved outside the Church. I do not make this error. LG 8 is always hypothetical for me.
For them Unitatis Redintigratio would refer to a Christian being saved outside the Catholic Church in imperfect communion with the Church, who is known and nameable. For me this is a hypothetical case. If anyone was saved as such it could only known to God. So UR 3 does not contradict the dogma EENS upon which was based the proclamation of the Social Reign of Christ the King in all legislation, the non separation of Church and State to save souls from Hell and traditional mission and outreach based upon traditional ecclesiocentrism. It is the same Vatican Council II before us but our premises our different and so our conclusions would also be different.
- Lionel Andrades
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2024/04/crisis-series-20-with-fr-macgillivray.html
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