Saturday, May 7, 2016

Pope Francis uses an irrational premise to draw a non traditional and heretical conclusion on Methodists and salvation

More Theological Confusion Follows Pope's Meeting With Methodists
Pope Francis reminds Methodists of the common baptism. He said the baptismal faith is responsible for really converting us into brothers and sisters.He was speaking to a Methodist delegation and was welcoming a new Methodist headquarters in Rome.
The pope does not believe that the Catholic Church is necessary for salvation.For him every one does not need to be a formal member of the Church for salvation.Instead he holds the pro-Masonic position on salvation, as did Pope Benedict XVI. For them there is salvation outside the Church even though no one in the present times or in the past knew, or could know,  of someone saved outside the Church.
It is by assuming that hypothetical cases and subjective cases are explicit, objectively visible in the present times, that the popes have been able to discard the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.It is with this irrational theology that they interpret Vatican Council II.
If invisible cases were not visible for Pope Francis, if LG 16 would refer to only a hypothetical case for him, then Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) would be saying that all Protestants, need Catholic Faith for salvation, and there would be no exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II.It would also mean that there would be no exceptions in Vatican Council II to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, which indicates Protestants are on the way to the fires of Hell unless they formally convert into the Catholic Church.
KERYGMA MEANING CHANGED
Pope Francis has in the past presented a kerygma which is based on Jesus Death and Sacrifice as a means of salvation and excludes the necessity of membership in  Jesus ' Mystical Body, the Church.
NICENE CREEDS MEANING CHANGED
So the Nicene Creed's ' I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sin', which refers to the visible,  known and repeatable baptism, the baptism of water, has been changed to 'I believe in three or more baptisms, which exclude the baptism of water. They are the baptism of desire and blood, seeds of the Word, imperfect communion with the Church etc'.This is a new doctrine and is first class heresy .
So the pope has discarded the dogma EENS and the Nicene Creed, by changing its meaning.He does this by using an irrational premise ( we can physically see and  know exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus).So the conclusion, the inference is non traditional and heretical.In this way he has changed Catholic salvation theology.
This has also been his approach with moral theology and this can be seen in the exhortation Amoris Laetitia n.301.He supposes that a priest could judge the conscience of a person living in manifest mortal sin and declare the person not to be in sin.Subjective factors which would only be known to God are considered objective and so the traditional teaching on mortal sin is rejected.
Similarly if a married couple decides that according to their conscience there marriage was not valid, even though it was a Sacrament, an annulment is easily given to break up the family.
Archbishop Bruno Forte. Image courtesy of Zonalocale.it
Steve Skojec


Steve Skojec on the blog 1Peter5 reports ' Archbishop Forte has in fact revealed a “behind the scenes” [moment] from the Synod: “If we speak explicitly about communion for the divorced and remarried,” said Archbishop Forte, reporting a joke of Pope Francis, “you do not know what a terrible mess we will make. So we won’t speak plainly, do it in a way that the premises are there, then I will draw out the conclusions.
“Typical of a Jesuit,” Abp Forte joked, attributing to that suggestion a wisdom that has allowed the maturation necessary to conclude that Amoris Laetitia, as Abp. Bruno Forte explained, does not represent a new doctrine, but the “merciful application” of that [the doctrine]of all time.'1
''do it in a way that the premises are there, then I will draw out the conclusions.
The premise is that there is known salvation outside the Church and the conclusion is that the dogma EENS is not longer valid.
The premise is that we know of people saved without the baptism of water and the conclusion is that there is salvation outside the Church. So there is a new doctrine on salvation.
The premise is that we can know objectively subjective factors which would indicate that a person in manifest mortal sin is not going to Hell and so the conclusion is that there are exceptions to the traditional understanding on mortal sin.
Since the premise for Pope Francis is that there is known salvation outside the Church, the conclusion for Pope Francis, is that  all Methodists and Protestants do not need to convert into the Catholic Church to be saved from Hell. -Lionel Andrades











1.

Forte: Pope Did Not Want to Speak “Plainly” Of Communion for Remarried

http://www.onepeterfive.com/pope-speaking-plainly-communion-divorced-messy/

So discard the new theology and we automatically revert to the old ecclesiology of the Church


More Theological Confusion Follows Pope's Meeting With Methodists

From the Remnant : More Theological Confusion Follows Pope's Meeting With Methodists

Without the new theology, the Rahner-Ratzinger theology, there are no exceptions in Vatican Council II to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS), according to the 16th century missionaries. It will mean that with Vatican Council II,(without the new theology which says LG 16 is visible instead of invisible) there is no change in the Catholic Church's position on Protestantism.At least Vatican Council II cannot be references to support the new ecumenism.
According to Vatican Council II( with LG 16 invisible and not objective), Methodists would need Catholic  Faith (AG 7, LG 14) for salvation. While the dogma EENS says they are oriented to the fires of Hell. There would be nothing in Vatican Council II to contradict EENS.
So this would be the post Vatican Council II teaching if we avoid the new theology, which sets up Vatican Council II as a break with Tradition, especially the dogma EENS.

So discard the new theology and we automatically revert to the old ecclesiology of the Church.-Lionel Andrades


We have to keep the Rahner-Ratzinger theology before us. Understand it and then chuck it out!
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/05/we-have-to-keep-rahner-ratzinger.html


The Pope to a Methodist Delegation: Our common testimony is necessary in a wounded world





http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/2418-pope-meets-with-methodists-more-captious-propositions

We have to keep the Rahner-Ratzinger theology before us. Understand it and then chuck it out!

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From the blog 1Peter5 : Out of the Rabbit Hole by Steve Skojec
Steve Skojec writes:
In the real world, in the Church, we have been fooled. We have been fed a meticulously-crafted illusion, a normalcy bias that innoculates us against an authentic understanding of what has actually transpired — and is still happening even now. It blinds us to what is unfolding right in front of our eyes. In our case, there is no pill, no potion, only God’s grace. If you sincerely ask Him to help you see the truth, He will show it to you.
Lionel:The teachings of the Church have been changed with a theology which confuses the visible/invisible distinction. Theology is the lens, it is the prism, through which we see something, a concept, a faith-teaching. It is like using different coloured lens to see an object.
But once you see it, you can’t unsee it.
Lionel: What you see is created  with a theology which confuses the visible/invisible distinction.I repeat,theology is the lens, it is the prism, through which we see something, a concept, a faith-teaching. It is like using different coloured lens to see an object.
You can unsee for example your interpretation of  Vatican Council II.
Until then, my friend Hilary White has just produced two very important essays.
Lionel: She does not realize that the teachings of the Church have been changed with a theology which confuses the visible/invisible distinction. Theology is the lens, it is the prism, through which we see something, a concept, a faith-teaching. It is like using different coloured lens to see an object.
 The truth is, he did not get here alone. He is the culmination of decades of defiance and denial of the true identity of the Church from successors of St. Peter. Those who are at this very moment questioning what Pope Francis is doing to Church teaching must, if they have any concern for The Real, evaluate what was done at the time of, and directly following, the Second Vatican Council.
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Lionel: Without the theology being used by Steve Skojec, , Hilary White and Maike Hickson, Vatican Council II supports the 'rigorist interpretation' of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.So the fault is not there with Vatican Council II but the theology being used to interpret it.
Hilary’s second essay, “How to get out of the Matrix on your own“, attempts to tackle this problem:
Lionel: In these books recommended by Hilary the change which has come into the Church has been observed  but they are not aware of the theology based on an irrational premise which has created the change.More important, they were unaware that without this theology,Vatican Council II is orthodox.
Michael Davies: everything...
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To sum up, Francis isn’t a weird and inexplicable anomaly. He’s really just the logical conclusion of what has been happening in the Church, and the world, since 1965... (When I mention “intellectual degradation” that’s what I mean. The loss of the ability to employ the basic principles of rational thought.)
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Lionel: Principles of rational thought!!!

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  Abp. LefebvreD. Von Hildebrand, Michael Davies were using an irrational theology to interpret Vatican Council II.They assumed hypothetical cases  were explicit and these explicit cases were exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus of Errors.They also assumed that these hypothetical cases happened without the baptism of water.
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Princples of rational thought!?
What about the Principle of Non Contradiction? How can LG 16 be an exception to the dogma EENS according to Fr.Leonard Feeney? Where are the objective LG 16 cases in 2016? How can LG 8, UR 3, NA 2 etc be objective exceptions or even relevant  to the dogma EENS as it was known to the 16th century Catholic missionaries? Yet this is the irrational reasoning of Hildebrand,Lefebvre and Davies.
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There are a number of other titles that are considered de rigeur (or soon will be). But rather than attempt to list the ones I know of here, at the end of an already-long post, I would like to solicit suggestions from you in the comments. If we get enough, I will compile a short bibliography of these works which we can put into the (as yet) little-used resources section of this website for future reference.
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Lionel: There is no understanding of how theology, the new irrational theology conditions our understanding of Vatican Council II.It's like a blind on our eyes. Remove it and Vatican Council II changes before our eyes.
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We’ll also be covering this topic more in the immediate future. We’re going to climb out of the rabbit hole. And we’re going to do it together. Stay tuned to find out how you can get your own Post-Conciliar Secret Decoder Ring™!
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Lionel: We have to keep the Rahner-Ratzinger theology before us. Understand it. And then chuck it out! -Lionel Andrades
http://www.onepeterfive.com/out-of-the-rabbit-hole/