Monday, August 5, 2013

Impediment in the Profession of Faith of the Franciscans of the Immaculate Governor General

With the new appointments  of Cardinal Joao Braz de Aviz   and  Archbishop José Rodríguez Carballo, President and Secretary respectively of the Congregation for Institutes of Religious Life and Societies of Apostolic Life and the new Commissioner and Governor General of the Franciscans of the Immaculate, Fr. P. Fidenzio Volpi O.F.M. Cap.there will be the Profession of Faith.They have either made a Profession of Faith in their new office or are about to do so.
 
However there is an impediment.
There is doctrinal issue, a faith issue,on which there should be an objection to  the Profession of Faith being made by the President and Secretary of the Congregation for Institudes of Religious Life and Societies of Apostolic Life and the Governor General of the Franciscans of the Immaculate Fr.P.Fidenzio Volpi O.F.M.
 
A simple clarification could sort things out (1), instead of appealing to the Apostolic Signatura for a decision.The Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate or their friends could pick up this issue.
 
In the Profession of Faith, the recitation of the Nicene Creed  is expected, indicating that Fr.Fidenzio Volpi and the others are believers in the Creed of the Catholic Church.
Fr. P. Fidenzio Volpi O.F.M. Cap will assume Protestants have 'ecclesial faith' as Pope Francis has stated in the encylical Lumen Fidei.He will  conclude that there is known salvation  on earth and these cases are exceptions  to the dogma on salvation. So Protestants are saved in the present times. These cases who are  saved can be named  in 2013 and so these are personally  known people, visible to him, who have 'ecclesial faith'.
 
Since there are known cases saved among Christians in 2013, who do not need Catholic Faith, he will approve  a theology of religions and consider this 'as being in step with the Church'. He would expect the Fransciscans of the Immaculate to accept a theology of religions.
 
Since there are known exceptions to the dogma on salvation they would interpret Vatican Council II, Ad Gentes 7, where the Council states all need 'faith and baptism' and all need to enter the Church 'as through a door' a irrelevant.
 
As mentioned in the  previous post the two popes in Lumen Fidei were saying extra ecclesiam nulla salus was  irrelevant. Also irrelevant was  Ad Gentes 7 'faith and baptism for all'.The Nicene Creed ( I believe in one (known) baptism and not three (known)baptisms) has been changed.The Athansius Creed which says outside the Church there is no salvation has been changed to outside the Church there is known salvation.The Catechism of the Catholic Church (846) affirming the literal interpretation of outside the Church no salvation, that of Fr.Leonard Feeney, is changed to assume that there are the familiar known exceptions,whom one can name in the present times (2013).The official teaching of the Catholic Church according to magisterial texts, before and after Vatican Council II is put aside for the unofficial, popular teaching of the Church with the false premise of knowing and seeing the dead in the present times.
 
The Profession of Faith has been changed!. This is not the Catholic Faith and it is not the Nicene Creed.
-Lionel Andrades
1.
  
The Congregation is located in front of St. Peter's Basilica at Piazza Pio XII, 3 / 00193 Rome.
Pertinent telephone numbers are:
His Eminence the Cardinal Prefect +39. 06. 69884121
His Excellency Archbishop Secretary +39. 06. 69884584
receptionists +39 06. 69884128 and +39. 06. 69892511
FAX +39. 06. 69884526
E-mail: civcsva.pref@ccscrlife.va (Prefect)
civcsva.segr@ccscrlife.va (Secretary)
vati059@ccscrlife.va (information)
 
_________________________________________________
 
 
 
 
 
 

Franciscans of the Immaculate clarify

 
  OFFICIAL NOTE of 03 Aug 2013: A RESPONSE TO VATICAN INSIDER

http://www.immacolata.com/index.php/en/35-apostolato/fi-news/230-vatican-insider-response






It is our duty to respond, with knowledge and in conscience, that in reality, Fr. Stefano not only has never imposed on all the F.I. communities the use—much less the exclusive use—of the Vetus Ordo, but he does not even want it to become the exclusive use, and he has personally given the example, celebrating everywhere according to the one and the other Ordo.
 
It is well to know that before, during, and after the Apostolic Visit (July 2012–July 2013), as well as at present, the exclusive or prioritized use of the greater part of the F.F.I. Communities is the Novus Ordo (Holy Mass and Breviary).
 
Fr. Stefano Manelli, as Minister General, together with his General Council, legitimately undertook an effort to promote the Vetus Ordo, respecting the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum (2007), respecting the decisions of our General Chapter of 2008, and respecting the Instruction Universae Ecclesiae (2011).
 
With a letter, Prot. 77/2011, dated 21 Nov 2011, our General Secretary, in the name of our General Council, sent all the F.F.I. Marian Houses (Friaries), some indicative (not preceptive!) norms regarding the use of the Vetus Ordo and the harmony between the Vetus Ordo and the Novus Ordo in our Communities and our Institute.
After this letter, various communities peacefully continued to give pride of place to the Vetus or the Novus Ordo. So there was no imposition on the part of Fr. Manelli.
 
Some Friars, however, contested the aforesaid letter. Therefore, we consulted the Pontificial Commission “Ecclesia Dei”, which with a  R e s c r i p t   of 14 Apr 2012, Prot. 39/2011L, found conformity between this letter (Prot. 77/2011) and the "mens" of Holy Father Benedict XVI, expressed in the already-mentioned Instruction Universae Ecclesiae, n° 8a.
 
We respond: is is well to point out that in reality, in the spirit of the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum (n° 3) and the Instruction Universae Ecclesiae (n° 8a), the Vetus Ordo as a "proper" rite (exclusive or not, but at least having priority), can be adopted also by Religious Communities not dependent upon the Pontifical Commission "Ecclesia Dei" and not coming from the Lefebvrian "schism". Nevertheless, it was never our Founder's intention to arrive at an exclusive use.
 
We respond: the fact that we were founded after the Council does not prohibit us F.I.'s from adopting or privileging the Vetus Ordo. Furthermore, the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum (published after the Council) is also addressed to the Institutes of Consecrated Life (without specification as to the date of foundation), and in addition, in no. 8a of the Instruction Universae Ecclesiae, it is specified that the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum has the aim, first of all, of “offering to all the faithful the Roman Liturgy in the Usus Antiquior, considered as a precious treasure to be preserved”. In that “all the faithful”, Religious are obviously also included.
 
If, by speaking of a "majority", the anonymous journalist refers to the datum cited in the article of Alessandro Speciale of 30 Jul 2013, «Francis approves appointment of commissioner to oversee Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate», namely: “in a survey carried out during the apostolic visit, the vast majority of the order’s members had said they did not agree that the Old Latin Rite should be the exclusive form used for celebrations of the mass, ‘particularly in the pastoral care programmes of Italian parishes and in the missions.’” [we have slightly altered Vatican Insider's translation], we consider it necessary to point out that this datum—if true—would not attest anything other than a unity of intention between the vast majority and our Founder on the question of exclusivity.
In any case, if the "majority" of the friars [So far as we are aware, there has not been any survey involving all the members of the Institute. Therefore, survey-based affirmations as to the will of the majority of the friars appear to us to be completely baseless] prefers to celebrate according to the Novus Ordo (Holy Mass and Breviary), it could perfectly well continue to do so, as it has in the past. Furthermore, Fr. Manelli himself principally celebrates the Novus Ordo (Holy Mass and Breviary).
 
 
*****
While we remain obedient to the dispositions of the Holy See, it nevertheless remains our duty to make clarifications as necessary to avoid: 1) calumnies against our Founder, and 2) obstacles to the serene progress of the present period under a Commissioner.
 
We take the occasion to specify that the only official spokesman of our Institute, especially in this very delicate situation, remains our Procurator General, Fr. Alessandro Apollonio.
 
 

 

Faithful Answers has not touched any of the issues raised on extra ecclesiam nulla salus

MysticalChurch
 
Ryan Grant one of the apologists on Faithful Answers  has not dealt with any of the issues I have been writing about. Over the years I have also informed him about it.
He was asked to write an article on outside the Church there is no salvation and to respond to the issues  I had raised.
Instead he has picked up material from the Catholics United for the Faith website and other sources on the internet.
So the fundamental questions are still not answered by any apologist on Faithful Answers.
1) Do we know any case in the present times saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance?
2) So can the baptism of desire be relevant or an exception to  the literal interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus?
3) Ad Gentes 7 says all need faith and baptism for salvation.So the reference is to Catholic Faith and the baptism of water. The reference could not be to Protestant faith and the baptism of desire.
Ad Gentes 7  is in agreement with the literal interpretation of the dogma.
 
Philip Gray, who is cited, assumes that the baptism of desire is a known exception to the dogma on salvation.

Once in correspondence with Ryan Grant he mentioned that the Catholic  Church teaches that there is a baptism of desire and that it is an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. I accept the baptism of desire in principle however I do not consider it an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

I asked him to cite some text as an example.He could not.Since no magisterial document mentions that  the baptism of desire is known to  us in particular cases or that it is an exception to the dogma.It simply mentions the baptism of desire since this was an issue raised by the Americanist movement , against the dogma.

Similarly the Letter of the Holy Office mentions that Fr.Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for disobedience and not heresy.The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 refers to the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance since it was an issue raised by the Archbishop of Boston and the Jesuits. It does not state that these cases are exceptions to the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney.
 
If it did make this claim as is widely reported, then the cardinal who wrote the Letter of the Holy Ofice made an objective mistake. We cannot see the dead. We cannot see the dead saved in invincible ignorance etc for these case to be exceptions to the traditional interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney.

Neither does the text of the three Councils which defined extra ecclesiam nulla salus mention the baptism of desire etc.Since it is not  relevant to the dogma.This was the error of Cardinal Richard Cushing who assumed that the baptism of desire was visible to us in personal cases and so was an exception to the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney.
 
The Catholic Church did not ask Fr.Leonard Feeney to recant when the excommunication for disobedience was lifted.
 
 
In the next tract, Ryan Grant writes, he will take up the necessity of the baptism of desire.
He cannot name any case in 2013 saved with the baptism of desire. So how can it be an issue or related to Pope Boniface VIII's Unam Santam or Cantate Dominio, Council of Florence 1441 of Pope  Eugene IV.
Cantate Domino specifically mentions that Protestants and Orthodox Christians are oriented to the fires of Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church. Ryan Grant says he is not sure of the position of Protestants.
-Lionel Andrades
 
 

The Franciscans of the Immaculate will now have to accept that Protestants have 'ecclesial faith' as Pope Francis has stated in the encyclical Lumen Fidei.

The Franciscans of the Immaculate will now have to accept that Protestants have 'ecclesial faith' as Pope Francis has stated in the encylical Lumen Fidei.
They will have to use the reasoning of the Jesuits which conclude that there is known salvation  on earth and these cases are exceptions  to the dogma on salvation. So Protestants are saved in the present times. These cases who are  saved can be named  in 2013 and so these are personally  known people, visible to the Jesuits, who have 'ecclesial faith', the faith that saves. They are members of the Catholic Church, in some imperfect way, as are the Orthodox Christians.
 
 This is irrationality and it is also first class heresy but this is the understanding of the Jesuits.This would also be 'being in step with the Church' for

Cardinal Joao Braz de Aviz, a focolarino, and  Archbishop José Rodríguez Carballo, a Franciscan, the President and Secretary respectively of the Congregation for Institutes of Religious Life and Societies of Apostolic Life (1)  This would also be being in step for the new Commissioner and Governor General of the Franciscans of the Immaculate, Fr. P. Fidenzio Volpi O.F.M. Cap.
 
Since there are known cases saved among Christians in 2013, who do not need Catholic Faith, the Jesuits have approved a theology of religions. This is also the name of a new department of Missiology at the Pontifical Gregorian University.They teach mission knowing that other religions are equal paths to salvation. The Franciscans of the Immaculate may have to promote this idea at their seminaries.
 
 They would also have to accept a radical interpretation of Vatican Council II, which puts aside Ad Gentes 7, where the Council states all need 'faith and baptism' and all need to enter the Church 'as through a door'.
 In their seminaries, they will have to teach new irrational theories as in the pontifical seminaries and universities. Their students will be taught that Lumen Gentium 16 ( being saved in invincible ignorance ) refers to a revolution initiated by Vatican Council.This is the same line used by Reuters,AP and the rest of the secular -left media.
 
They will have to agree with  Fr.Hans Kung saying  Vatican Council II (LG 16 etc) is a break with the dogma on salvation and the infallibility of the popes ex cathedra, in issuing this defined dogma three times.Since invincible ignorance cases-saved, are known and visible to Fr.Hams Kung, they are exceptions to Tradition, to the Syllabus of Errors etc.
 
Th Franciscan Friars and Sisters of the Immaculate will gradually move in step with the Church also on morals. After they have discovered that they can see the dead saved  they will declare that identifying mortal sin must include two new conditions known to us, 'full knowledge' and 'deliberate consent'. These are the new conditions that help identify when someone is in mortal sin. They may be  taught that since we do not know these two conditions there is no mortal sin.In the past, Tradition assumed that these two conditions were known only to God.So with only one condition,mentioned in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, 'grave matter', one could identify mortal sin.
 
Also in the past it was assumed that only God could know who 'knew' about the Church and yet did not enter(LG 14). Now it is assumed that we all can judge these cases.So not everyone needs to enter the Church but only those who 'know'.
 
The Franciscan Friars and Sisters of the Immaculate will be affirming all this irrationality , a separation of faith and reason, and then will be in step with Lumen Fidei,which indicates Christians have a saving- faith in general and in particular  known cases.
The two popes in Lumen Fidei were saying extra ecclesiam nulla salus was  irrelevant. Also irrelevatnt was  Ad Gentes 7 'faith and baptism for all'.The Nicene Creed ( I believe in one (known) baptism and not three (known)baptisms) has been changed.The Athansius Creed which says outside the Church there is no salvation has been changed to outside the Church there is known salvation.The Catechism of the Catholic Church (846) affirming the literal interpretation of outside the Church no salvation, that of Fr.Leonard Feeney, is changed to assume that there are the familiar known exceptions,whom one can name in the present times (2013).The official teaching of the Catholic Church according to magisterial texts, before and after Vatican Council II is put aside for the unofficial, popular teaching of the Church with the false premise of knowing and seeing the dead in the present times.
-Lionel Andrades
 
 
1.