Saturday, February 7, 2015

An Entire Diocese in Apostasy

Bishop Luciano Monari and his Curia in the diocese of Brescia, Italy will not affirm extra ecclesiam nulla salus as a dogma.
Il Vescovo di Brescia Mons. Luciano MonariIt would mean  their position on the Nicene Creed ,'I believe in one baptism for the forgivness of sin' is confusing. It could  be 'I believe in three or more known baptisms for the forgiveness of sins'.Vatican Council II (Ad Gentes 7) would also be shelved with this new theology based on the factual error of the Italian, Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani.
When Pope John Paul II referred to silent apostasy in the Church he did not know that he too was part of it. It was an oversight. No one told him about it.
His Catechism of the Catholic Church does not mention the dogma.The Zionists could  have warned Cardinal Jospeh Ratzinger and with 'saving obedience', he must have obliged.
-Lionel Andrades
February 6, 2015
Bishop of Brescia refuses to say extra ecclesiam nulla salus is a dogma of the Catholic Church

Fr.John Zuhlsdorf interprets Vatican Council II with Marchetti's theory so the Council for him is ambigous and a break with extra ecclesiam nulla salus

Fr.John Zuhlsdorf:
We know from the Gospels that Our Lord established the Church as His vehicle for the salvation of humanity.
True but Fr.Leonard Feeney of Boston said the same thing.Surely  Fr.Zuhsdorf does not mean it like the good priest from Boston.
Fr.Zuhlsdorf uses the Marchetti Theory.He assumes those saved in invincible ignorance ( possibilities known to God) are objective cases in the present times.So he does not say, like Cardinal Francesco Marchetti, that all need to be formal members of the Church for salvation.He avoids Feeneyism and does not disclose that he too notes some confusion.
He ordered us to preach the Gospel to all nations, and taught that baptism is essential for salvation.
St. Cyprian of Carthage (+258) wrote, “Salus extra ecclesiam non est” (ep. 72, Ad Iubaianum de hereticis baptizandis). Even earlier, Origen, wrote, “Let no man deceive himself. Outside this house, that is, outside the Church no one is saved.” (Homily on the Birth of Jesus). Clearly from both the Fathers and from the Magisterium of the Church we have a consistent teaching that the Church is THE vehicle of the salvation.
And none of them mentioned that being saved in invincible ignorance referred to known cases in the present times. They did not say that every one did not need to be formal members of the Church (with faith and baptism) since there were known exceptions.Fr.Zuhsldorf has always been a liberal on this issue.
The Church still maintains that and teaches, as the Catechism of the Catholic Church states, “all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is His Body.” (CCC 846)
The Catechism has accepted the Marchetti error (CCC 846,1257).Marchetti's inference is also there in Redemptoris Missio, Dominus Iesus etc.
This is a positive formulation of the doctrine, in contrast to the flip side, “there is no salvation outside the Church”.
The flip side was a dogma defined three times. If he supports that dogma they'll come for his blog.
The Church has always taught that we do not know the inscrutable ways of God.
Can those who appear to be visibly outside of the Church attain heaven?
A similar statement was made by Fr.Jonathan Morris and so Michael Voris asked Fr.Jonathan : who did he think in the present times would be saved without entering the Church. Who would go to Heaven without being a member of the Catholic Church ?. 
Not through their own merit. None of us attains heaven through our own merit. We have the example of Christ Himself, who stated that, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven (John 3:5).
He was also referring to the baptism of water in a particular community, in a particular Church. It was the Catholic Church.
That’s pretty straightforward. But then, on the Cross, He informed the Good Thief that He would be in paradise (Luke 23:43).
Yes as a possibility a person could be saved without the baptism of water being visibly given to him but in a way known only to God.For us this is speculation. It is also possible that this person would receive the baptism of water too. This was the dogmatic teaching.Fr.Z is  trying to accomodate the objective error of Marchetti. This is the error accepted by the magisterium and incorporated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and taught at Pontifical Universities.
We cannot say that there is any one in 2015 whom we know who will be saved like the Good Thief.There is no 'good thief' for us in the present time.
Fr.Zuhlsdorf like Marchetti infers that hypothetical cases accepted in principle, in faith, are defacto exceptions in the present times to the 'rigorist interpretation' of the thrice defined dogma on salvation.He is still trying to stay clear of Feeneyism even though Feeneyism is the official teaching of the Church in Vatican Council II and other magisterial documents when the Marchetti inference is not used.Tough job!
How do we square those things? There’s no indication that the Good Thief was “born of water and the Spirit”, yet we know he attained heaven.
If baptism is the entrance into the Church, and outside the Church there is no salvation, how can we say that the Good Thief is in heaven?
We also have the consistent teaching of the Church on the concept of invincible ignorance. There are those who, through no fault of their own, have not heard the Gospel message. Are they all guaranteed to be damned? No.
What is the connection between those who are saved in invincible ignorance and extra ecclesiam nulla salus? There is none. Thanks to the Letter of the Holy Office's 1949 it was made a new issue in the Church.
St.Augustine no where says that these cases are known to us in the present times to be relevant to the dogma. Fr.Zuhlsdorf will now go ahead and make the irrational inference.
St. Augustine commented in a homily once on the sheep who are outside of the flock and the wolves who are within (tr. eu. Io. 45.12). Bl. Pius IX wrote
“It must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood; but on the other hand, it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, will not be held guilty of this in the eyes of God.
True and he does not state that we know these cases personally. So how can they be defacto exceptions to the Feeneyite version of the dogma?

Now in truth, who would arrogate so much to himself as to mark the limits of such an ignorance, because of the nature and variety of peoples, regions, innate dispositions, and of so many other things? For in truth, when released from these corporeal chains, ‘we shall see God as He is’ (1 John 3:2), we shall understand perfectly by how close and beautiful a bond divine mercy and justice are united; but as long as we are on earth, weighed down by this moral mass which blunts the soul, let us hold most firmly that, in accordance with Catholic teaching, there is ‘one God, one faith, one baptism’ (Ephesians 4:5); it is unlawful to proceed further in inquiry. But just as the way of charity demands, let us pour forth continual prayers that all nations everywhere may be converted to Christ; and let us be devoted to the common salvation of men in proportion to our strength, ‘for the hand of the Lord is not shortened’ (Isaiah 9:1) and the gifts of heavenly grace will not be wanting to those who sincerely wish and ask to be refreshed by this light.” (Allocution “Singulari quadam” 9 December 1854).
Is it possible to be saved outside of the Catholic Church? No. It is not.
Here Fr.Z is on the mark. Defacto, objectively, explicitly, in known cases, in 2015 it is not possible to be saved outside the Church. He is correct here.
Salvation comes through the Church.
Yes and everyone needs to be a formal member of the Church for salvation.(John 3:5.MK.16:16, Vatican Council II (Ad Gentes 7, Lumen Gentium 14, Cantate Dominio, Council of Florence 1441 etc).
Is it possible that those who seem to be outside of the Catholic Church end up in heaven?
God’s mercy and judgment are such that His understanding of salvation in and through the Church is on a different plane than ours is in this life.
It is possible for those who, due to invincible ignorance, appear to remain outside the Church are, somehow, saved in and through the Church. This possibility should, in no way, shape, or form, allow us to relax our efforts to work and pray for the spread of the Gospel and for seeking to get as many of our brothers and sisters as we possibly can into the Ark of Salvation, the Holy Catholic Church.
Bottom line: God is not limited by our understanding. God can save whom it pleaseth Him to save. Can He save people who are not visibly and formally within the embrace of Holy Catholic Church, and not even baptized? Yes. He can. We don’t know how He might do that, but He can, whether we understand it or not. In any event, any person who is saved, is saved through the merits of the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross, and that salvation and those merits are mediated – somehow – through the only Church that He found, the Catholic Church.
God can also save a formicator and a sodomite if he wishes too and we do not know how he will do it however the Bible, Tradition and the Magisterium tells us that they need to repent and change their ways to be saved. There is a condition. Similarly the Bible , Tradition and pre -1949 Magisterium tell us that all need to formally enter the Church to avoid Hell and there are no defacto, known exceptions.There is a condition.
Also, I want to remind everyone what the Second Vatican Council said in Lumen gentium 14:
“They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it.”
Mistake! The Second Vatican Council II has not said here that we personally know who these cases are or that they are exceptions to the dogma.To reach this wrong conclusion an inference has to be made. Cardinal Marchetti and Fr.Z make this inference.  
It is irrational and non-Catholic.It pleases the political Left.
Vatican Council II (Ad Gentes 7) says all need faith and baptism for salvation. Christians in the many denominations do not have Catholic Faith which include the Sacraments through  which God saves. They also do not have the faith and moral teachings of the Church necessary to avoid mortal sin and to save their soul.
According to Vatican Council II (AG 7) non Catholics, Christians, are on the way to Hell unless they convert into the Church. This is also the teaching of Cantate Dominio, Council of Florence (extra ecclesiam nulla salus)  which Vatican Council II does not contradict when the theory of Cardinal Marchetti is avoided in the interpretation.Fr.John Zuhlsdorf interprets Vatican Council II with Marchetti's theory and so the Council for him is ambigous and a break with the past.
-Lionel Andrades

February 3, 2015
Rorate Caeili and Fr.Zuhlsdorf's interpretations are politically correct


One day after my arrival in Goa, I visited the tomb of St. Francis Xavier, where his mutilated but incorrupt body can still be seen. St. Francis Xavier had the degrees that would have allowed him to become a professor. When he arrived in Goa, the Portuguese authorities there, recognizing his credentials, appointed him head of the seminary. But St. Francis Xavier was not meant for academic life. He was nothing if not reckless in his desire to spread the Gospel. Seeing that the church was firmly established in Goa, Xavier moved on to Japan. Preaching to fisherman in Kagoshima who had returned home with empty nets, Xavier applied the gospel in literal fashion and told them to cast their nets over the other side, and when they did, they brought in a huge catch, just as Christ had predicted in the Gospel.
This is precisely what European Catholicism was doing at this moment in history. After losing millions of Christians to the Protestant Revolt, the Catholic Church set out, quite literally, into the deep, and people like Xavier and the Jesuits cast their nets over the other side and brought in a catch of millions of souls. Duc in Altum became the motto of the Church whenever the Church found itself in trouble, after feeling that it had labored all night and caught nothing.
It’s what I have done for 35 years in America. Now after becoming a pariah whose name American Catholics, like the professors at Notre Dame, never mention without appending a curse to it, I am being asked to set out into the deep and cast my nets over the other side. Like St. Francis Xavier before me, I find myself in Goa, ready to set off again to another land to explain the Logos.
During a long voyage back to India which began in November 1551, Xavier came to realize that the high Japanese culture which he came to admire so much all derived from China. The conclusion he drew from this realization was clear. The Japanese would not convert unless the Chinese converted before them. As a result Xavier made plans to visit China, a formidable undertaking at a time when no foreigner could enter China without government permission. Those who attempted to enter illegally often paid with their lives.
In September 1552, Xavier set sail for the island of Shangchuan, nine miles off the coast of the Chinese mainland. When he arrived in Shangchuan, Xavier could find no one willing to take him to the mainland. Eventually he cut a deal with a Chinese merchant who agreed to take him by night for a fee. The merchant took Xavier’s money and never showed up. Weakened by his travels and suffering from hypothermia, Xavier died on the night of December 2, 1552 at the age of 46.
Standing in front of his tomb, I found myself wondering: How did Francis Xavier feel waiting on the island of Shangchuan for the boat that never arrived. Did he feel that he had labored all night and caught nothing? I can’t tell you how many times I have prayed that prayer, but I can tell you that I can’t cast my nets over the other side without your financial support. India is engaged in a raging church-state debate which they cannot solve on their own. With the help of the Indian Jesuits and the book by David Wemhoff that we’re bringing out, we could make a significant contribution to defusing an issue which now poses a serious threat to India’s Catholic population. Your support will help me meet with the Hindu teacher who wanted to talk with me about preventing the sexualization of India’s children. Your support will help me to explain the real meaning of sexual liberation to Iranian Muslims. Your tax-deductible contribution will, God willing, bring about the conversion of more Jews.
Duc in altum,
E. Michael Jones
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There Is No Salvation Outside The Catholic Church (Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus) - Ann Barnhardt

Here are some quotes from her article which I liked.
So, there is exactly, precisely ONE TRUTH, and thus, there must be by mathematical definition, be exactly, precisely ONE CHURCH. There CANNOT be multiple “churches”, which, by definition, hold contradictory positions (hence their distinctiveness one from another), because two contradictory things CANNOT BOTH BE TRUE. And we know that there is a CHURCH, because Our Lord Himself in the Gospels made repeated mention of it, not the least of which was this hard-to-get-around statement:
“Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH.”
So we know, just from that, that Our Lord does have, in fact, a Church, and that He has ONE Church, because he used the singular form of the noun. This doesn’t even take into consideration the Holy Spirit’s extensive discussion of the Church as the Body and Bride of Christ through the pen of St. Paul in his epistles. Look, when God Almighty, Incarnate, says, “I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH”, all debates about whether or not there even is a Church ends. If a person is so far gone that they can’t grind their way through that gearbox, then there’s nothing I or anyone else can do.
So let’s get our LOGIC jam on now, shall we? The Church, of which there is only one, is the Body and Bride of Christ, and all of the saved either are now or eventually will be in the Church Triumphant, which indwells, now and forever, inside the Triune Godhead.
Now grind through this, and fight the contra-education you have received as a child of the post-Christian, post-Modern west. How, EXACTLY, could a person be “saved” and be OUTSIDE of the Church?
Let’s focus in on the so-called Christian denominations now. Do we honestly believe that there are multiple “heavens”? Do we honestly believe that there is a Presbyterian heaven, and a Methodist heaven, and a Baptist heaven? Do we honestly believe that there is a heaven where sodomy, for example, is NOT a sin, where all of the people who believe that sodomy is great will get to go? Is there a heaven where contraception is not a sin – because ALL of the protesting sects today deny the sinfulness of contraception? Again, let’s get our logic groove rolling again. How can the Triune Godhead hold contradictory positions as both being true? Either sodomy is a sin or it isn’t. Either the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ physically, substantially present, or it isn’t. Either the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the eternal liturgy of heaven, or it isn’t. A house divided cannot stand. If God holds contradictory positions as both “true”, then there is no truth, and thus there is no God. THIS is the inevitable logical consequence of the Protestant revolt – atheism.
And so it follows from this that Our Good God has not created one single human being “damned”. Every one of us – and scientists today speculate that there have been roughly 110 billion human beings ever – and every person who ever will be, has been knit together, atom by atom, cell by cell, personally by God who provided and provides a means and path and grace sufficient for every one of us to make it to heaven. Including the eighth consecutive child delivered by c-section. Many, many did not and will not make it, but that is our own fault.
I BELIEVE that the Catholic Church is the ONE, TRUE CHURCH of Christ, instituted by Him in the Upper Room, and is now and always will be His Body and His Bride. There is only ONE Church. There is only ONE True Religion. There is only one heaven, and there is only one God, who is the One and Only Judge of every human being.
Which is why I will scream from the rooftops without the least hesitation or shame:
-Ann Barnhardt

Ann Barnhardt has written a good piece on extra ecclesiam nulla salus however there is one part which is confusing.1
She says all the natives in North America before Columbus landed there and who did not know of Christ were saved .Those who followed the Natural Law were saved .
Yes they could have been saved if in some way God sent a preacher to them and they were baptised before going to Heaven. Other wise with Original Sin they were on the way to Hell.They could have been saved may be if unknown to us, God did send a preacher to them and had them baptised.May be he could have sent even an angel.Then yes, they could have been saved.
St.Thomas Aquinas says that the man in the forest who is in invincible ignorance will have a preacher sent to him. So he can be saved.
For us this is a speculative issue.However it should not be considered an exception to the dogma in the present times, 2015. A speculative, hypothetical case of the past cannot be a defacto objective exception in the present times.
So Ann is correct when she says outside the Church there is no salvation and every one in the present times wil be judged by Jesus and those who are not within the Catholic Church will be damned.She is saying also that we do not know of any one in the present times who will be saved without Catholic Faith and the baptism of water. She is agreeing with the Church Councils, saints and Fr.Leonard Feeney of Boston when she tells us that all need to be formal members of the Church to avoid Hell.
-Lionel Andrades

What of people who cannot, through no fault of their own, either know about or enter the Church? Can these people be saved? The answer is: yes. It is possible. Let’s take all of the people, for example, who lived their lives on the North American continent in the 1450 years between the establishment of the Church by Christ in the Upper Room in ARSH 33, and the landing of Columbus in North America in ARSH 1492. How could a man born on the Great Plains in the 5th century, living his entire life 1000 years before any Christian steps foot on the same continent, making it a physical impossibility that he could have known of Christ, much less His Church, much less received baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, be saved? How could such a man, and billions of others like him over the centuries, possibly be not only saved, but saved IN THE CHURCH, outside of which there is no salvation according to the axiom? The answer is: The Natural Law. Christ judged the 5th century Plains Indian according to the Natural Law, which is indelibly inscribed on the heart of every human being by God. Is it more difficult for those outside The Church? Of course. That is why the Church is a Gift from God, and the most obvious manifestation of His love for us, even above and beyond nature and the stars. The 5th century Plains Indian could not go to the sacrament of confession and hear the words:
God, the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of His Son has reconciled the world to Himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
But we CAN go to confession and we CAN hear those words, and our sins, venial and mortal, can be forgiven AT ANY TIME. The Catholic Church is a Gift from God.
And so that 5th century Plains Indian, if he lived his life in accord with the Natural Law, coupled with genuine invincible ignorance (due to physical location), made it through his Particular Judgment before Our Lord, is now far, far, far more Catholic than any of us. He knows the Mass better than the greatest liturgist alive today, because he is right there at the Altar, worshiping God in the perpetual sacrifice and immolation of the Lamb. He isn’t in some separate animist-pagan heaven for red skinned Injuns (HAD to throw that in). He is in the one and only heaven that there is, which is indwelling in the only God there is, which is His Mystical Body and Bride, Church Triumphant, which is most certainly CATHOLIC, because what the word “catholic” means is “universal” or, perhaps more accurately, “on the whole”.
And so it follows from this that Our Good God has not created one single human being “damned”. Every one of us – and scientists today speculate that there have been roughly 110 billion human beings ever – and every person who ever will be, has been knit together, atom by atom, cell by cell, personally by God who provided and provides a means and path and grace sufficient for every one of us to make it to heaven. Including the eighth consecutive child delivered by c-section. Many, many did not and will not make it, but that is our own fault.