Friday, August 16, 2013

What has the baptism of desire to do with the literal interpretation of St.Robert Bellarmine and St.Thomas Aquinas ?

Ryan Grant writes in one of the comments on Faithful Answers:
The consequence of Feenyism is that the Church’s teaching office can be erroneous


Lionel:
Do you mean the Church's Official or Unofficial teaching office (1), with the false premise or without the fault premise, according to Cardinal Richard Cushing or Fr.Leonard Feeney, according to the Jesuits Fr. Jesuits Dupuis and Cardinal Carlo Martini or, St.Robert Bellarmine and St.Ignatius of Loyola.

There is a community of Fr.Leonard Feeney in the Diocese of Worcester,USA who have been granted full canonical status and they hold the traditional teaching on extra ecclesiam nulla salus, similiar to Fr.Leonard Feeney.

They were listed among the recognized religious communities of the diocese on the Worcester website.However there were protests that they were not Catholic since they did not accept the baptism of desire. That page on the website has been removed. So Ryan Grant would also be critical of this community of Fr.Leonard Feeney in Worcester, since he assumes that the baptism of desire is alwats explicit for us (instead of implicit) and so it is an exception to the lliteral interpretation of the dogma as it was known for centuries. Hence he is critical of Feeneyism.

This is the general charge against 'Feeneyism' in the mainstream media and Ryan Grant has done a copy and paste job in the article on extra ecclesiam nulla salus(Part one).

MysticalChurch
What has the baptism of desire to do with the literal interpretation of the dogma according to St.Robert Bellarmine and St.Thomas Aquinas ?. If someone was saved with the baptism of desire  these cases are unknown to us. So they are not relevant to the dogma. Yet so many Catholics, Ryan included , are doing theology based on this premise.

The community in Worcester I assume believe that the baptism of desire is followed with the baptism of water.So they have not rejected the baptism of desire as a possibility as Ryan would report. Again, so what, what difference does it make ? Either way, with or without the baptism of water, the baptism of desire cannot be an exception to all in 2013 needing to enter the Church.

There is so much of theological speculation on Catholic blogs/ websites when we don't know a single case of a someone saved in the baptism of desire.If there is one apple in a box of oranges then that apple is an exception because of its colour etc but also because it is there in that box, it is exists.We do not personally know any case of the baptism of desire this year or the last 100 years. There could be many such cases but there could also be none.

Feeneyism is the official teaching of the Church according to Church Councils, popes, saints and Vatican Council II.It is in agreement with the Official Teaching of the Church which is the only rational interpretation of Church documents, The Unofficial teaching of the Church uses an irrational premise. It assumes the baptism of desire etc, accepted only in principle as a possibility known to God, is not just a possibility, but an actual reality in the present times.It is wrongly assumed that these cases are  personally known and visible to us for them to be a known exception to Tradition and Fr.Leonard Feeney.

This was the error and heresy of Americanism and that of the Cardinal-Archbishop of Boston Richard Cushing.If Ryan Grant assumes this was the view of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 then he is implying that the Letter of the Holy Office made a factual,an objective error. It would mean Pope Pius XII made a silly error. He assumed we could see the dead now saved who are known exceptions to the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney.
-Lionel Andrades


1.

August 8, 2013

Official and Un-official teaching of the Catholic Church:Congregation for Institutes of Religious Life and Societies of Apostolic Life ,Vatican is useing the unoffical, irrational one

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/08/official-and-un-official-teaching-of.html




http://www.faithfulanswers.com/extra-ecclesiam-nulla-salus-part-i/