Wednesday, October 21, 2015

"Special rite" for interreligious marriages : spouses are living in adultery and are outside the Church in Australia and Germany



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3rd English group at ('s group) recommends new "special rite" for interreligious marriages
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For the record, I didn't say should change Church teaching but propose new language & pastoral strategies. Let's be creative. AMC
Cardinal Marx strongly, strongly defending development of doctrine in church at this point. Things changed between Vatican I and II

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Archbishop Mark Coleridge and Cardinal Marx have been interpreting Vatican Council II with the error from the Baltimore Catechism.
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An irrationality from the Baltimore Catechism, is used in the interpretation of Vatican Council II.Otherwise Vatican Council II indicates couples in interreligious marriages are in mortal sin. There is the sin of faith.They are also living in adultery.A sin or morals. The non Catholic spouse is outside the Church. There is no salvation for him or her, unless he or she converts with 'faith and baptism' (AG 7,LG 14) into the Church. According to Vatican Council II all need to be formal members of the Church, all need 'faith and baptism'(AG 7) for salvation.
Without the Baltimore Catechism error there is nothing in Vatican Council II to contradict the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.It says Protestants, Orthodox Christians, Jews and other non Christians are on the way to the fires of Hell unless before they die they formally enter the Church.
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In Germany and Australia Protestants marry Catholics and the Protestant spouse is not told that he/she is outside the Church and needs to formally convert.Protestants are on the way to Hell without Catholic Faith, which include the faith and moral teachings of the Church and the Sacraments needed for salvation.
They are not cautioned since for the bishops and cardinals there, LG 16, LG 8, UR 3, NA etc refer to visible and not invisible cases.So they are exceptions to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church. In other words there is known salvation outside the Church for Cardinal Marx and Archbishop Mark Coleridge. This is the irrational reasoning which has been accepted by them from the Baltimore Catechism.So they permit inter faith marriages in the church, as not being adulterous.
-Lionel Andrades


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By A Customer on Nov. 5 1999
Hell and How to Avoid Hell by Thomas A. Nelson 
(Amazon Books)
This book is an absolute must for everyone, regardless if you are Christian or not! You will not be able to put the book down as it captivates you with an absolutely overwhelming feeling of fear and terror. It really causes you to re-evaluate your own conscience and whether or not you are on the path to heaven. This book is especially needed for those who do not know Jesus Christ and for those that do know Him but think they are "once saved always saved." The Bible clearly states that we must accept Christ into our lives in order to be saved from the fires of Hell, but we must also "work out our salvation with nervous trembling." This book discusses these points in great detail as well as many other important biblical facts about Heaven, Hell, and salvation. It's a must buy!
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A young Korean artist taken to Hell. Drew pictures of it.



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The entrance it seems to me was similar to a very long and narrow alleyway, like an oven, low and dark and confined; the floor seemed to me to consist of dirty, muddy water emitting foul stench and swarming with putrid vermin...The bodily pains were so unbearable that though I had suffered excruciating ones in this life and according to what doctors say, the worst that can be suffered on earth for all my nerves were shrunken when I was paralyzed, plus many other sufferings of many kinds that I endured and even some as I said, caused by the devil, these were all nothing in comparison with the ones I experienced there...-St.Teresa of Avila's description of Hell.
http://catholicharboroffaithandmorals.com/St.%20Teresa%20of%20Avila%20combat%20with%20Satan.html

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These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings. https://youtu.e/_La-_wEJ4Fk
There are special Tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings related to the manner in which it has sinned.
I would have diedThere are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me...-St.Faustina Kowalska's description of Hell.
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"Then I was pushed into one of those fiery cavities and pressed, as it were, between burning planks, and sharp nails and red-hot irons seemed to be piercing my flesh."

Here Josefa repeated the multiple tortures from which no single member of the body is excluded:

"I felt as if they were endeavoring to pull out my tongue, but could not. This torture reduced me to such agony that my very eyes seemed to be starting out of their sockets. I think this was because of the fire which burns, burns... not a finger-nail escapes terrifying torments, and all the time one cannot move even a finger to gain some relief, nor change posture, for the body seems flattened out and yet doubled in two.-Sr.Joseph Menendez's description of Hell.
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There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day. And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores,
Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man' s table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham' s bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell. And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom: And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame. And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented. 

And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither. And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father' s house, for I have five brethren, That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments. And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance. 
And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead. -Luke :19-31, The Rich Man (Dives) and Lazarus.
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Second Circle (Lust)


Gianciotto Discovers Paolo and Francesca
In the second circle of Hell are those overcome by lust. Dante condemns these "carnal malefactors"[ for letting their appetites sway their reason. They are the first ones to be truly punished in Hell. These souls are blown back and forth by the terrible winds of a violent storm, without rest. This symbolizes the power of lust to blow one about needlessly and aimlessly.
In this circle, Dante sees 
SemiramisDidoCleopatraHelen of TroyAchillesParisTristan, and many others who were overcome by sexual love during their life. Dante is told byFrancesca da Rimini how she and her husband's brother Paolo Malatesta committed adultery, but then died a violent death, in the name of Love, at the hands of her husband, Giovanni (Gianciotto). Francesca reports that their act of adultery was triggered by reading the adulterous story of Lancelot and Guinevere (an episode sculpted by Auguste Rodin in The Kiss). Nevertheless, she predicts that her husband will be punished for his fratricidein Caïna, within the ninth circle (Canto V).
Alse see Dante's experience in Hell in The Divine Comedy( Inferno).
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http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/04/didnt-jesus-teach-about-hell.html

FIFTH EXERCISE

IT IS A MEDITATION ON HELL

It contains in it, after the Preparatory Prayer and two Preludes, five Points and one Colloquy:
Prayer. Let the Preparatory Prayer be the usual one.
First Prelude. The first Prelude is the composition, which is here to see with the sight of the imagination the length, breadth and depth of Hell.
Second Prelude. The second, to ask for what I want: it will be here to ask for interior sense of the pain which the damned suffer, in order that, if, through my faults, I should forget the love of the Eternal Lord, at least the fear of the pains may help me not to come into sin.
First Point. The first Point will be to see with the sight of the imagination the great fires, and the souls as in bodies of fire.
Second Point. The second, to hear with the ears wailings, howlings, cries, blasphemies against Christ our Lord and against all His Saints.
Third Point. The third, to smell with the smell smoke, sulphur, dregs and putrid things.
Fourth Point. The fourth, to taste with the taste bitter things, like tears, sadness and the worm of conscience.
Fifth Point. The fifth, to touch with the touch; that is to say, how the fires touch and burn the souls.
Colloquy. Making a Colloquy to Christ our Lord, I will bring to memory the souls that are in Hell, some because they did not believe the Coming, others because, believing, they did not act according to His Commandments; making three divisions...
- The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola, [1914]http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/seil/seil15.htm
People that died and saw hell. Video Testimonies of Hell

Atheist College Professor dies and sees hell and demons - it changed his life

Bishop Bernard Fellay made a mistake : there is no denial from the SSPX USA over two years

October 20, 2015
Development of an error in the Catholic Church
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From the Baltimore Catechism to Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1992) we can see the development of a new doctrine, an irrationality, to negate the centuries old dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS), defined by three Church Councils.With the development of the irrationality in magisterial documents, the old ecclesiology was discarded.
BALTIMORE CATECHISM
321. How can those be saved who through no fault of their own have not received the sacrament of Baptism?Those who through no fault of their own have not received the sacrament of Baptism can be saved through what is called baptism of blood or baptism of desire.
322. How does an unbaptized person receive the baptism of blood?

An unbaptized person receives the baptism of blood when he suffers martyrdom for the faith of Christ.
Greater love than this no one has, that one lay down his life for his friends. (John 15:13)
323. How does an unbaptized person receive the baptism of desire?
An unbaptized person receives the baptism of desire when he loves God above all things and desires to do all that is necessary for his salvation. - Baptism. Lesson 24 from the Baltimore Cathechism
I have mentioned in a previous blog post 1 that there are no physical cases of the baptism of desire and blood, they cannot be known and seen on earth, as we see the baptism of water. The baptism of water can be given.It can be repeated.

The baptism of desire and blood cannot be given and repeated and we do not know of any such case personally.So they are not exceptions to all needing the baptism of water to avoid Hell.
These cases are not relevant to all needing the baptism of water, the necessity of the baptism of water for salvation. So they should not have been placed in this section of the Baltimore Catechism.
They do not contradict the following passages from the same Catechism.

315. What is Baptism?
Baptism is the sacrament that gives our souls the new life of sanctifying grace by which we become children of God and heirs of heaven.
Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)

316. What sins does Baptism take away?

Baptism takes away original sin; and also actual sin and all the punishment due to them, if the person baptized be guilty of any actual sins and truly sorry for them.
Get up and be baptized and wash away thy sins, calling on his name. (Acts 22:16)

317. What are the effects of the character imprinted on the soul by Baptism?

The effects of the character imprinted on the soul by Baptism are that we become members of the Church, subject to its laws, and capable of receiving other sacraments.

320. Why is Baptism necessary for the salvation of all men?

Baptism is necessary for the salvation of all men because Christ has said: "Unless a man be born again of water and the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
Now they who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:41) 2

We must remember that being saved with the baptism of desire, baptism of blood or in invincible ignorance refer to invisible cases for us.Since they are not objectively seen they do not contradict the Baltiomore Catechism when it states ' Baptism is necessary for the salvation of all men...'.
It is necessary for all with no exceptions.
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Related imageCATECHISM OF POPE PIUS X

27 Q. Can one be saved outside the Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church?
A. No, no one can be saved outside the Catholic, Apostolic Roman Church, just as no one could be saved from the flood outside the Ark of Noah, which was a figure of the Church.
29 Q. But if a man through no fault of his own is outside the Church, can he be saved?
A. If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God’s will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation. -Catechism of Pope Pius X, Rome 1905
Again we must note, I repeat, that being saved with the baptism of desire, baptism of blood or in invincible ignorance refer to invisible cases for us .There should have been no reference to it here.The same errror of the Baltimore Catechism has been placed in the Catechism of Pope Pius X.
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Since 29 Q does not refer to an explicit, objectively seen case, it does not contradict 27Q which states ,' No, no one can be saved outside the Catholic, Apostolic Roman Church, just as no one could be saved from the flood outside the Ark of Noah, which was a figure of the Church'.
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LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE 1949

The Baltimore Catechism error was accepted by the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 issued by Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani to the Archbishop of Boston and which was made public some three years after it was issued.
The first part of the Letter affirms the dogma and the necessity of the baptism of water.I refer to it as A.

A
Now, among those things which the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there is no salvation outside the Church.
Now, in the first place, the Church teaches that in this matter there is question of a most strict command of Jesus Christ. For He explicitly enjoined on His apostles to teach all nations to observe all things whatsoever He Himself had commanded (Matt. 28: 19-20).
Now, among the commandments of Christ, that one holds not the least place by which we are commanded to be incorporated by baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to His Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth.

The second part of the Letter mentions exceptions to the first part.I refer to these passages as B and they are in red.The Letter contradicts itself.

B
Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.

In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects, necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man's final end, not by intrinsic necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing.

Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.

but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.

With these wise words he reproves both those who exclude from eternal salvation all united to the Church only by implicit desire...

From these declarations which pertain to doctrine, certain conclusions follow which regard discipline and conduct...
We must remember that being saved with the baptism of desire, baptism of blood or in invincible ignorance refer to invisible cases for us.So B does not contradict A.The Letter made a mistake.
Since B does not refer to explicit, objectively seen cases it cannot contradict A.There can be no known exceptions to the Feeneyite version of the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Church.

When it states ' no one will be saved who, knowing...' it assumes those saved in invincible ignorance refer to known cases in our reality, in the present times. They are saved in their ignorance. For the 1949 Magisterium they are not culpable.They are exceptions to all needing the baptism of water.On the other hand those who 'know', who are not in inculpable ignorance and who are seen and known in the present times, for the Magisterium , were on the way to Hell.This is irrational. Since these cases would be known only to God.
We cannot judge who knows or does not know and will be saved. They are zero cases in our reality. So they are not relevant or exceptions to the dogma.This is a new doctrine which was 'developed' in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.
This error was placed in Vatican Council II (LG 14)
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VATICAN COUNCIL II

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."(17) Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6), yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16), and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel. -Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II
A
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.
B
Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."(17) Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him

Again I repeat being saved with the baptism of desire, baptism of blood or in invincible ignorance refer to invisible cases for us.So B does not contradict A.
B is superflous.
It should not have been placed in Vatican Council II.
The same mistake is made in Lumen Gentium 14.
The error in Vatican Council II is carried over from the Baltimore Catechism because B was supposed to be explicit.
However we can correct the error in future. Avoid it in the interpretation of Vatican Council II.I have done it numerous times on this blog.
I know that B is always invisible and not known to us. So the confusing text is there in the Magisterial documents but it does not contradict the traditional teaching on the necessity of the baptism of water for all. It is not confusing if B is considered invisible for us. It would then also not contradict the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the old ecclesiology.
-Lionel Andrades
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 Bishop Bernard Fellay made a mistake : there is no denial from the SSPX USA over two years
Bishop Bernard Fellay the Superior General of the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) in his  Letter to Friends and Benefactors no. 82 says 'The same declaration (LG. 8) also recognizes the presence of “salvific elements” in non-Catholic Christian communities' and the SSPX bishop concludes that 'Such statements are irreconcilable with the dogma “No salvation outside of the Church,” which was reaffirmed by a Letter of the Holy Office on August 8, 1949.
The expression “subsistit in” (Lumen gentium, 8) means that the Church of Christ has in the separate Christian communities a presence and an action that are distinct from the Church of Christ’s subsistence in the Catholic Church.Taken in this sense, the expression denies the strict necessity of identifying the Church of Christ with the Catholic Church, which had always been taught, especially by Pius XII, both in Mystici corporis[2] and Humani generis[3].The Church of Christ is present and active as such, that is, as the unique ark of salvation, only where the Vicar of Christ is present. The Mystical Body of which he is the visible head is strictly identical to the Roman Catholic Church.)
The same declaration (LG, 8) also recognizes the presence of “salvific elements” in non-Catholic Christian communities
 The decree on ecumenism goes even further, adding that “the Spirit of Christ does not refrain from using these churches and communities as means of salvation, which derive their efficacy from the fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church.” (UR, 3) such statements are irreconcilable with the dogma “No salvation outside of the Church,” which was reaffirmed by a Letter of the Holy Office on August 8, 1949.
 'the expression denies the strict necessity of identifying the Church of Christ with the Catholic Church, which had always been taught, especially by Pius XII, both in Mystici corporis[2] and Humani generis['
Lionel: Why does it deny it ? Since these cases are explicit and so are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ? We see the error of the Baltimore Catechism here.
'The same declaration (LG, 8) also recognizes the presence of “salvific elements” in non-Catholic Christian communities'
Lionel: So what? Are they explicit and known to us and so they are relevant to the dogma?
the Spirit of Christ does not refrain from using these churches and communities as means of salvation, which derive their efficacy from the fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church.” (UR, 3) such statements are irreconcilable with the dogma “No salvation outside of the Church,” which was reaffirmed by a Letter of the Holy Office on August 8, 1949.
Lionel: He assumes there are irreconcilable with the dogma, since for him these cases are explicit. He is not aware of the objective error in the Baltimore Catechism.
-Lionel Andrades

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/09/april-23-sept112014-still-no.html




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