Repost : Catholic media does not say that Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church affirm the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

FEBRUARY 5, 2019

Catholic media does not say that Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church affirm the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

Catholic media when commenting on  the "Document on Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together” do not mention how Vatican Council II , the Catechism of the Catholic Church and other magisterial documents affirm the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) and that there are no known exceptions.The Church teaches in these magisterial documents that there are only Catholics in Heaven.

They have not mentioned it since they do not believe in it or do not understand it, yet.

Diane Montagna at LifeSitesNews does not cite Ad Gentes 7 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation.She does not quote theblue passage and mention that thered passage refers to invisible and hypothetical cases and so does not contradict theblue passage.

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it." Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him...-Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II.

Instead she cites the red passage as if it refers to known people saved outside the Catholic Church and so contradicts the strict interpretation of outside the Church there is no salvation in Ad Gentes 7 ( blue passage).

Here it is :

Vatican II allows for the possibility of extraordinary revelations to non-Christians. According to its decree on the missionary activity of the Church, “God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him” (Ad Gentes, 7). -Diane Montagna, LifeSiteNews

For her a possibility is a personally known person saved outside the Church and so it contradicts Ad Gentes 7 when it says all need faith and baptism for salvation.

For me all need faith and baptism for salvation is the norm. Ad Gentes 7 is also mentioned in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 846.

For Diane Montagna CCC 846 would be contradicted by CCC 847-848. Again possibilities are not just possibilities for her.They are actual people in 2019 saved outside the Church otherwise how could they be exceptions ? How could they be exceptions  to the traditional teaching on outside the Church there is no salvation.

This is the difference between Feeneyism andCushingism in the interpretation of magisterial documents and especially Vatican Council II.

With Feeneyism hypothetical cases are just hypothetical. 

With Cushingism hypothetical cases are assumed to be non hypothetical and objective exceptions to the orthodox passages in Vatican Council II etc.

So the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 can be read with the Feeneyite or Cushingite model.1 Diane Montagna is a Cushingite.With Cushingism she reads Vatican Council II as a rupture with Tradition ( EENS, ecumenism of return, Syllabus of Errors etc).

Similarly for her the red would contradict the bluein the interpretation of Lumen Gentium 14, Unitatis Redintigratio 3 and Dominus Iesus 16 2

So she does not interpret Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church with the rednot being an exception to blue with reference to Islam and other religions.

If she did so then Vatican Council II (AG 7) would be saying all Muslims need faith and baptism for salvation and there are no known exceptions of the baptism of desire(LG 14) or invincible ignorance(LG 16) etc in 2019.There are no practical exceptions to exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church. 

Instead she has irrationally interpreted Vatican Council II.

This could be a reason why she has not commented on the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Diocese of Manchester,USA placing prohibitions on the Brother Andre Marie MICM and the St.Benedict Center, in New Hampshire.3 The CDF wanted the SBC to say that Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church contradict the strict interpretation of the dogma EENS. So it could no more be said that there are only Catholics in Heaven.

So for six months there are prohibitions placed on the traditionalist community and they are legally considered  not-Catholic for Pope Francis.

-Lionel Andrades

1

FEBRUARY 3, 2019

The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 can be read with the Feeneyite-Cushingite model. It can be read with the red passages not being exceptions to the blue passages ( Feeneyism) or with the red passages being exceptions to the blue passages (Cushingism). The blue passages are orthodox and support the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was known to the Magisterium in the 16th century

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/02/the-letter-of-holy-office-1949-can-be.html

2

JANUARY 28, 2019

In Magisterial documents the red is not an exception to the blue, the red does not contradict the blue : with the blue there is a hermeneutic of continuity with Tradition (16th- century extra ecclesium nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors, ecumenism of return, past exclusivist ecclesiology etc)

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/in-magisterial-documents-red-is-not.html

3.

https://www.catholicnh.org/assets/Documents/About/FAQ/Decree-Precepts-StBenedictCtr.pdf

• St.Benedict Center Status Change (48)

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/02/catholic-media-does-not-say-that.html

How can the new magazine defend and proclaim the one, true faith?

New magazine launches to help Catholics defend and proclaim one true faith

March 22, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) – Voice of the Family, a group of Catholic laity consisting of major pro-life and pro-family organisations, has launched a quarterly magazine, Calx Mariae (Heel of Mary), published in the UK.

The fourth issue, which recently appeared in print, focuses on the theme “Parents as primary educators of their children”.

Lionel:
How can they defend and proclaim the one true faith when they are not willing to affirm Feeneyite Vatican Council II and extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS)?

They can choose to interpret Vatican Council II with LG 8 etc as referring to personally known non Catholics saved outside the Church in 1965-2019. So LG 8 etc would be exceptions to the dogma EENS. LG 8 etc would contradict the Syllabus of Errors on an ecumenism of return.

They can also choose to interpret Vatican Council II with LG 8, LG 16, UR 3 etc as referring to personally unknown and non existing , non Catholics saved outside the Church in 1965-2019. So LG 8 etc would not be exceptions to the dogma EENS.LG 8 etc would not contradict the Syllabus of Errors on ecumenism etc.

The Voice of the Family, LIfeSites News, Latin Mass Societies and the editors of the new magazine choose the irrational option.So there is a break with Tradition.

This is not really the teaching of the Catholic Church.

_____________________

Similarly they can interpret the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as being contradicted by personally known cases of the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and being saved in invincible ignorance. So they become objective exceptions to the dogma EENS.

However they can also interpret EENS as not being contradicted by the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and being saved in invincible ignorance, since they refer to personally unknown people. They are not objective exceptions to the dogma EENS.

The magazine will choose the irrational option on EENS.

So how can this magazine defend and proclaim the Catholic faith ?-Lionel Andrades

   

 AUGUST 6, 2018

Whispers of Restoration a group of anonymous traditionalists,heretics and schismatics, who interpret Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, with a false premise, and so create a rupture with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS), the Syllabus of Errors and past Catechisms   https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-team-at-whispers-of-restoration-for.html   

• Whispers of Restoration (10)

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JANUARY 27, 2019

 

Repost : The red is not an exception to the blue, the red does not contradict the blue : Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/repost-red-is-not-exception-to-blue-red.html

Fr. Michael Rodriguez defends True Catholic Teaching at City Council

   
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/video-surfaces-of-beto-orourke-berating-catholic-priest-for-defending-male-female-marriage

Lettera dall'inferno - Una storia vera (audio)

Istruzione Cattolica

298,4 mila18 ago 2018

Lettera dall'inferno - Una storia vera (audio)

42:02

(9 aprile 1952) Daniela Giarl 


https://gloria.tv/audio/91Rh372q8hAj2R4mzL672uEvn

Nigel Farage on Brexit betrayal, will carry on fight (23March19)

Pakistan: Muslim student stabs professor to death over “anti-Islam” remarks

MAR 21, 2019  BY ROBERT SPENCER

Khateeb Hussain is likely to be celebrated as a hero in Pakistan, in the manner of Mumtaz Qadri, the murderer of Salman Taseer, a politician who opposed Pakistan’s blasphemy law. A mosque in Islamabad was named after Qadri, and is an extremely popular and frequently visited place.

“Bahawalpur student stabs professor to death over ‘anti-Islam’ remarks,” by Mohammad Imran, AFP, March 20, 2019:

A third-year student at Bahawalpur’s Government Sadiq Egerton College on Wednesday allegedly stabbed a professor to death over what he vaguely described as the academic’s “anti-Islam” remarks, police sources and persons familiar with the incident said.

Associate professor Khalid Hameed, the head of the English department, was seated inside his office at the college when he was allegedly accosted and attacked with a knife by the student.

According to initial information noted by police at the scene of the crime, Khateeb Hussain, a 5th-semester BS student enrolled in the English department, had exchanged hot words with Prof Hameed at around 8:40am over the arranging of a ‘welcome party’ at the college.

The event, which Hameed was overseeing, was to be held on March 21 to welcome new students to the college, police said.

Police sources told DawnNewsTV that Hussain was averse to the event being organised because he viewed the mingling of male and female pupils at the function as “un-Islamic”.

Following an argument, Hussain stabbed the professor in the abdomen and head, police said. Hameed was taken to the Bahawalpur Victoria Hospital, where he succumbed to his injuries.

Police have arrested the suspect along with the murder weapon and registered an FIR under Section 302 (intentional murder) of the Pakistan Penal Code and Section 7 of the Anti-Terrorism Act on a complaint of the deceased teacher’s son.

‘Promoting obscenity’

In the application submitted to police for the registration of a First Information Report (FIR), Prof Hameed’s son stated that the incident took place when he had gone to drop his father off at the college along with two others. He said his father proceeded to enter his office while he (the son) was still in the parking; he said he saw the attacker hiding behind a pillar and then suddenly charging at the teacher.

“As my father was about to step into his office, the guy attacked him with a knife, hitting him on his head and stomach,” he told AFP.

“My father then fell down and I rushed to him; the student held his knife and started shouting ‘I have killed him, I had told him that a gender mix reception is against Islam’,” he said.

According to the deceased’s son, the attacker also said he had killed Prof Hameed because he supported the scheduled function in which “obscenity is promoted”.

“We took him to hospital but he had already died,” he said.

He said the student dropped his knife and the guards arrested him.

No remorse

A video confession of the suspect, aged around 20, was obtained by DawnNewsTV.

In the video, seen by Dawn.com, the suspect identifies himself as Khateeb Hussain and says that he attacked the English professor because he allegedly “spoke against Islam”.

In response to a question, he says he assaulted the teacher with a knife in the office where he was sitting. Both of the suspect’s hands are bandaged, indicating he received knife injuries during the scuffle.

When informed that the professor had died at the hospital, the suspect expresses satisfaction with his actions.

He is then questioned on why he did not use a lawful way of voicing his complaints against the academic, to which he responds that the country’s laws are “freeing the blasphemers (gustaakhon) “.

When asked if he regrets his remarks, he expresses no remorse….

 https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/03/pakistan-muslim-student-stabs-professor-to-death-over-anti-islam-remarks

France: Catholic churches vandalized, set on fire, smeared with excrement

MAR 23, 2019  BY ROBERT SPENCER

There has been hostility to the Catholic Church in France for centuries, but this kind of thing did not happen. Could it have anything to do with the introduction into France of a large population of people who believe that Christianity is a false religion and that they are commanded to fight unbelievers so that Allah may punish them by the hands of the believers (cf. Qur’an 9:14-15)? Possibly not. But possibly.

“Catholic churches in France vandalized, set on fire & smeared with excrement (PHOTOS, VIDEO),” RT, March 22, 2019:

Catholic churches in France are being targeted with arson attacks, vandalism, desecration of holy statues, and the destruction of the Eucharist. The attacks have been happening since the start of the year.

The Church of St. Sulpice in Paris, where the Da Vinci Code movie was filmed, was set on fire just after midday mass on Sunday, Le Parisien reports. Firefighters and police said the blaze was an arson attack.

In February, a 19th century statue of the Virgin Mary was smashed at the St. Nicholas Catholic Church in Houilles. The statue was “completely pulverized,” Father Francois-Laurent Heart said. “It is irreparable.” The church reported three incidents in 10 days, with a cross also thrown on the floor by vandals.

At Saint-Alain Cathedral in Lavaur, statues and crosses were smashed and an altar cloth was burned in February. A statue of Christ on a cross was also interfered with, as vandals twisted one of the arms to make it appear that Jesus was dabbing, La Depeche reports. Two teenagers were later arrested over the damage.

Meanwhile, the Notre-Dame des Enfants church in Nimes was looted and vandals used human excrement to draw a cross on the wall in February. Consecrated hosts of unleavened bread, which Catholics believe is the body of Jesus Christ, were found scattered outside with rubbish.

Also in February, eucharistic hosts were stolen and scattered around Notre-Dame church in Dijon, with Father Emmanuel Pic denouncing the attack as on the “heart of the Catholic faith.”…

 https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/03/france-catholic-churches-vandalized-set-on-fire-smeared-with-excrement

Pakistan: Muslims abduct two Hindu girls, marry them to Muslims, forcibly convert them to Islam

MAR 24, 2019 BY ROBERT SPENCER

Islamic tolerance. The Qur’an says “There is no compulsion in religion” (2:256). However, what constitutes “compulsion” is in the eye of the beholder. The institutionalized subjugation of the dhimma, with its regular humiliation and harassment, from which one can be freed for the simple price of converting to Islam, is not considered compulsion. Remember Steve Centanni and Olaf Wiig, the journalists who were kidnapped and forced to convert to Islam — even though their conversions were obviously coerced, their captors made them say that they were converting freely, and the captors probably believed that themselves. After all, the journos could have chosen to be killed instead.

“Two Hindu girls abducted on Holi eve in Pakistan’s Sindh,” by Yudhvir Rana, Times of India, March 23, 2019:

AMRITSAR: Two Hindu teenaged girls in Pakistan were allegedly kidnapped and forcibly converted to Islam on Holi eve in Dharki town of Sindh’s Ghotki district.

This led the Hindu community to stage massive protests, seeking stern action against the perpetrators and reminding Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan of his assurance to minorities.

Pakistan Hindu Sewa Welfare Trust Sanjesh Dhanja president told TOI over phone from Karachi on Friday that two sisters – Raveena, 13 and Reena, 15 – were allegedly abducted and forcibly converted to Islam after their marriage.

Pakistan Hindu Sewa Welfare Trust chief alleged that the police only lodged an FIR after the minority community came out on the streets to protest.

Imran Khan had recently tweeted, “Naya Pakistan is Quaid’s (Jinnah) Pakistan and we will ensure that our minorities are treated as equal citizens, unlike what is happening in India.”

The tweet had stirred a controversy.

Anjum James Paul, assistant professor of political science and head of department, Government Post Graduate College, Samundri, Pakistan, posted a poser for Imran Khan on his Facebook page: “And now who will stand (up) for Reena, Raveena and Sadaf Khan, Hindu and Christian Pakistani minor girls, who have been snatched from parents after abduction and conversion in February and March.”…

He said the two sisters were abducted and converted when they were celebrating Holi on March 20, while Sadaf Khan, a 13-year-old Christian girl was abducted, converted and married on February 6.

Dhanja further said that before this two other Hindu girls, Komal and Sonia, were abducted and forcibly converted.

Bishop Paul Martin does not support Vatican Council II (AG 7) and the Catechism of the Catholic Church (845,846) : the Church is like the Ark of Noah that saves in the Flood

Bishop Paul Martin of the Diocese of Christchurch ,New Zealand does not tell EWTN about the theological position on prayers for non Catholics.Laura Ashburn who annouces 'news from a Catholic perspective' asks him about the prayers for peace,in his homily.

The bishop and Ashburn commends the prayers for deceased Muslim brothers and sisters. 1

The following comment was posted on the blog Vox Cantoris and the owner of the blog David Domet was forced to ban all comments.2

Vox,

Here are some points related the confusion and heresy in your two posts.

1.We must observe that the norm for salvation in the Catholic Church is faith and the baptism of water. The norm is not people-could-repent-at-the-last-moment and be saved.This was the error of Fr.Charles Curran who was checked by Pope John Paul II.

2.Since there are no physically visible cases of the baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) nor of LG 8, GS 22, UR 3 etc in Vatican Council II, there is no extraordinary way of salvation, known to us humans.

3.A non Christian, however admirable is his personality, who dies without faith and baptism(AG 7, LG 14) is oriented to Hell.

When we meet non Catholics we know all of them are oriented to Hell with no known exception.Since the nome is the dogma EENS or AG 7 and LG 14 in Vatican Council II and literally we cannot know of any exception.

4.Outside the Church there is no salvation is a dogma of the Catholic Church which is not contradicted by anything mentioned in Vatican Council II, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Dominus Iesus and the Letter of the Holy Office 1949(LOHO).

5.Practically, there can be no known exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).Literally, we cannot  know anyone saved with BOD,BOB or I.l.The LOHO made a mistake in 1949 and it was repeated at Vatican Council II ( 1965).

6.Since there is no known salvation outside the Church in particular cases; no literal cases, we cannot say that someone in invincible ignorance is an exception to EENS.We cannot say only those who know about Jesus and the Church( who are not in ignorance) need to enter the Church and not all in general.This is the mistake in Lumen Gentium 14 based upon the objective mistake in LOHO( 1949). 

7.No one saw a St. Emerentiana in Heaven without the baptism of water.The Church only says she is a saint. This is all that is permitted for us humans who cannot see who is in Heaven.

8.No one saw St.Ambrose's friend, the Emperor Valentinian in Heaven, with or without the baptism of water.St. Ambrose could only speculate and hope and believe that his friend was there.

BOD, BOB and I.I for us humans can only be theoretical and speculative,I repeat.

9.A possibility of being saved outside the Church( since God is not limited) is not an actual, known person, saved outside the Church without faith and baptism.It's only a theoretical case.Also it is also possible, conversely, that there was no one saved outside the Church, over the last 50 years.

10.It is the Holy Spirit which guides the Church to say outside the Church there is no salvation.So we know how God will judge and what is the objective reality after death.Personal sentiments for people cannot change this objective reality.

So Catholics do not pray for non Catholics who have died.We can express our condolences and sympathy with non Catholic friends at the human level.We pray for non Catholics who are living. We can hope that God will show them the truth and that they may have what is needed to follow it.-Lionel Andrades 

 http://voxcantor.blogspot.com/2019/03/you-expect-people-to-come-to-catholic.html

1

https://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/news/ewtn-and-bishop-of-the-diocese-of-christchurch-promote-an-interfaith-service/?utm_source=Slider&utm_medium=S-img&utm_campaign=Slider#.XJeJbNJKjIU

2.

MARCH 23, 2019

Canadian blogger restricted

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/03/canadian-blogger-restricted.html

Bishop Schneider and Professor Roberto dei Mattei do not interpret the Creeds like they were interpreted in the 16th century. They interpret Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church with a false premise to create a non traditional conclusion.Then they reject the result.They make the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX obsolete : all this is not heresy for them

Rorate interviews Professor Roberto de Mattei

Rorate interviews Professor Roberto de Mattei regarding Bishop Athanasius Schneider’s analysis on the subject of a heretic Pope.

(Note : New Catholic, the Editor at the website Rorate Caeili, like Bishop Schneider and Professor Roberto dei Mattei do not interpret the Creeds like they were interpreted in the 16th century. They interpret Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church with a false premise to create a non traditional conclusion.Then they reject the result.They make the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX obsolete my assuming there are personally known cases of non Catholics saved outside the Catholic Church. Since BOD, BOB and I.I are exceptions to EENS for them, the Catechisms contradict each other.The Catechism of Pope Pius X contradicts itself.All this is normal for them. They have not denied it over the last few years. This is heresy.

It is in this heresy that they acknowledge only the heresy of Pope Francis.They exclude Pope Benedict.Even though, both these popes used the same irrational premise and inference as Schneider and Mattei, to create a rupture with Sacred Tradition.

Bishop Schneider supports a Chrisian Theology of Religious Pluralism and Salvation which was rejected by Pope John Paul II ( CDF, Notification, Dupuis, 2001).There is no denial from Bishop Schneider who rejects the strict interpretation of the dogma EENS since invisible cases of BOD, BOB and I.I are exceptions. So he will not say that all Muslims in his diocese need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation.

-Lionel Andrades

Friday, March 22, 2019

 - Professor de Mattei, would you care to give us your opinion on the study His Excellency Monsignor Schneider made on a “heretic Pope”?

- I consider it an important document. Firstly, Monsignor Schneider is one of the most esteemed among contemporary bishops for his patristic culture and personal piety. Secondly, the subject is of very great interest and Monsignor Schneider had the courage to address it openly, unambiguously and uncompromisingly.

- Regarding this document, what points do you most agree with?

- First of all, I agree completely with Monsignor Schneider when he admits the possibility that a Pope can “promote doctrinal errors or heresies”, even if never ex cathedra. The hypothesis of a heretic pope is not only sustained by almost all theologians and canonists, but it is also a historical fact which occurred for example, with Pope Honorius, and which can tragically be repeated. Another point that Monsignor Schneider clarifies well, in the light of Church teaching, is the stance that is to be taken when faced with a heretical Pope. "In dealing with the tragic case of a heretical pope, all the members of the Church, beginning with the bishops, down to the simple faithful, have to use all legitimate means, such as private and public corrections of the erring pope, constant and ardent prayers and public professions of the truth in order that the Apostolic See may again profess with clarity the Divine truths, that the Lord entrusted to Peter and to all his successors."  It is not enough to pray in silence, as if nothing has happened. 

We need to resist and react. And the best way is that of fraternal correction, which is chiefly up to the bishops and cardinals, but which also ordinary lay-people can extend to the Pontiff, as happened with the Correctio filialis.  I quote:"In this issue the numerical factor is not decisive. It is sufficient to have even a couple of bishops proclaiming the integrity of Faith and correcting thereby the errors of a heretical pope. It is sufficient that bishops instruct and protect their flock from the errors of a heretical pope and their priests and the parents of Catholic families will do the same.” I agree completely with Monsignor Schneider when he states that: “even if a pope is spreading theological errors and heresies, the Faith of the Church as a whole will remain intact because of the promise of Christ concerning the special assistance and permanent presence of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of the truth, in His Church (cf. John 14: 17; 1 John 2: 27)".  

- Is there any point of Monsignor Schneider’s analysis that you don’t agree with?

- I’m somewhat puzzled by his statement: “A pope cannot be deposed in whatsoever form and for whatever reason, not even for the reason of heresy.” Monsignor Schneider denies the possibility of the loss of the papacy, while admitting this thesis has been voiced by great canonists and theologians, like Cardinal Cajetan and St. Robert Bellarmine, in favour of it. The position that seems to me the most convincing is that of the Brazilian theologian, Arnaldo Xavier da Silveira, -who died recently - which he sums up in chapter VII of his book Can a Pope be…a heretic? The Theological Hypothesis of a Heretical Pope, (Caminhos Romanos, 2018).

Continued

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2019/03/rorate-interviews-professor-roberto-de.html#more