This misinformation on Wikipedia, widespread on other sources too, is responsible for the SSPX not accepting Vatican Council II. It could also result in the CDF excommunciating the Society because they assume that the Council ( with the false premise of being able to see the deceased saved) contradicts tradition.-Lionel Andrades
______________________________________________________
Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus- Wikipedia .
Catholic interpretationThe Church's understanding of the significance of the phrase: "Outside the Church there is no salvation" is expressed in its Catechism of the Catholic Church, 846-848, 851 as follows:
(As interpreted by Wikipedia)
"Outside the Church there is no salvation" - How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
(Even when all salvation comes from Christ and we do not personally know all of these cases it does not contradict the dogma which says all need to convert into the Church for salvation; to avoid Hell).
"Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it" (Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, 14).
(Lumen Gentium 14 above affirms the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and no where in Vatican Council II or the Catechism of the Catholic Church is it mentioned that we know exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus or that these exceptions are explicit.
Lumen Gentium 14 also states all need to enter 'as through a door')
This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and His Church:
"Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience — those too may achieve eternal salvation" (Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, 16).
(Those who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church and who are saved are not known to us but are known only to God.So these cases are not exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Is Wikipedia implying that LG 16 is an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus?
Do we have to assume that those who are saved by follwoing the dictates of their conscience are known to us on earth, they are visible, and so are explicit exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus? The Council does not say it. Wikpedia has to assume it.)
"Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him (Hebrews 11:6), the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men" (Second Vatican Council, Ad Gentes, 1).
(Yes there is an obligation to evangelize and there are no exceptions to the dogma)
Missionary Motivation. It is from God's love for all men that the Church in every age receives both the obligation and the vigor of her missionary dynamism, "for the love of Christ urges us on," (2 Corinthians 5:14; cf. Apostolicam actuositatem 6, Roman Missal 11). Indeed, God "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:4); that is, God wills the salvation of everyone through the knowledge of the truth. Salvation is found in the truth. Those who obey the prompting of the Spirit of truth are already on the way of salvation. But the Church, to whom this truth has been entrusted, must go out to meet their desire, so as to bring them the truth. Because she believes in God's universal plan of salvation, the Church must be missionary.
(The Church must be missionary . Yes. The truth is outside the church there is no salvation and there are no known exceptions. Lumen Gentium 16 (invincible ignorance) also does not contradict Ad Gentes 7(all need to enter)
This conjunction of statements in the Catechism makes it clear that the Catholic Church sees the dogma "outside of the Church there is no salvation" as the basis for the missionary activity of the Church, because those who are innocently outside the Church but are also seeking to follow the will of God are thus the proper object of the Church's missionary activity - so as to bring them explicitly the saving truths of the Christian Faith which they are seeking, and by which God desires to effect their salvation through the knowledge of Jesus Christ.
(This is false. We do not know any one saved outside the Church in 2012 . There is no known case of a person saved who is still on earth and is in inculpable ignorance and neither can we say that any particular person will be saved.
The basis of the missionary activity of the Church is the dogma which says all need to convert into the church for salvation, all need faith and baptism (AG 7) and there are no known exceptions.)
"And this is life everlasting that they know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ Whom Thou hast sent." (John 17.3), "And there is not salvation in any other. For neither is there any other name under heaven given to men, wherein we must be saved." (Acts 4.12)
(And they believed and were baptized in the Church, the community.There was only the Catholic Church at that time.)
The Catechism explicitly affirms this interpretation in paragraph 161 by insisting upon the necessity of actual faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.
(Yes and CCC 845 and 846 mention the necessity of the Church for salvation).
Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One Who sent Him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:36; 6:40; et al.). "Since 'without faith it is impossible to please [God]' and to attain to the fellowship of His sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life `but he who endures to the end,'" (Vatican I, Dei Fillius 3; cf. Matthew 10:22; 24:13 and Hebrews 11:6; Council of Trent Decree on Justification, 8)
The Popes quoted above as stating that outside of the Church there is no salvation did not see this statement as contradicting their other statements that salvation is possible for those who, while not knowing the Church as necessary for salvation and thus not explicitly entering the Church, nevertheless accept whatever grace Christ gives them and thus receive what the Council of Trent called Baptism of Desire.
(Yes the dogma does not contradict the baptism of desire etc . Baptism of desire etc refer to implicit salvation and the dogma says all need to be explicit members of the Church. Implicit salvation is not an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus).
Pope Pius IX wrote in Quanto conficiamur moerore, 7:
There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace since God who clearly beholds, searches, and knows the minds, souls, thoughts, and habits of all men, because of His great goodness and mercy, will by no means suffer anyone to be punished with eternal torment who has not the guilt of deliberate sin.
(Again Wikipedia implies that invincible ignorance is an explicit exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.)
He saw their situation as different from that of people "living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity … stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff," namely those of whom the Second Vatican Council said, as quoted above: "They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it." For the invincibly ignorant, he saw their path to salvation as being through the mediation of the Church's missionary activity: "the sons of the Catholic Church… should always be zealous to seek them out and aid them, whether poor, or sick, or afflicted with any other burdens, with all the offices of Christian charity; and they should especially endeavor to snatch them from the darkness of error in which they unhappily lie, and lead them back to Catholic truth and to the most loving Mother the Church, who never ceases to stretch out her maternal hands lovingly to them, and to call them back to her bosom so that, established and firm in faith, hope, and charity, and 'being fruitful in every good work' (Colossians 1:10), they may attain eternal salvation. In his encyclical Mystici Corporis, 103 Pope Pius XII said that
(False. Being saved in invincible ignorance is irrelevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Pope Pius XII no where says that we know these cases explicitly or that they are exceptions to the dogma.He could be responding to this very error.He acknowledges those who can be saved in invincible ignorance, he accepts it in principle.It is Wikipedia which implies that these cases are explicit exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.)
those who do not belong to the visible Body of the Catholic Church… We ask each and every one of them to correspond to the interior movements of grace, and to seek to withdraw from that state in which they cannot be secure about their salvation.[Cf. Pius IX, Iam Vos Omnes, 13 Sept. 1868] For even though by an unconscious desire and longing have a certain relationship with the Mystical Body of the Redeemer, they still remain deprived of those many heavenly gifts and helps which can only be enjoyed in the Catholic Church.
(We personally cannot know who these cases are so they are irrelevant to the dogma. They cannot be considered 'exceptions'.)
As indicated above, the Catholic Church rejects both Feeneyism and (by stating that "they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it")
(Those who know and or those who do not know are known only to God. So it is irrelevant to mention it here with relation to the dogma.We cannot judge anyone as being an exception.)
the contrary notion that one can be saved while knowingly and deliberately rejecting the Catholic Church.
(We do not know who these cases are on earth).
Certain Traditionalists contend that the statement of Pius IX above from Quanto conficiamur moerore does not deny the need to know and hold the Catholic faith.The phrase of Pius IX in Quanto conficamur moerore, "effiacious virtue of divine light and grace", is vague and could simply mean that God would bring unbelievers explicitly to the gospel at some later point in their lives.
(Irrespective - it is not an exception to the dogma.)
The modern Catholic Church holds that, among those who "do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter… those who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church" and that "(t)hose who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 838-839).
(Fine. And this has no bearing on the dogma since these cases mentioned are known only to God.Is Wikipedia implying that these are exceptions?)
The Second Vatican Council further explained the status of non-Catholic Christians ("separated brethren") as follows (Unitatis Redintegratio, 3):
But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.
(All Christians who are saved are known to God . Ad Gentes 7 says all need faith and baptism for salvation. Protestants do not have Catholic Faith which is necessary for salvation.They commit mortal sins of faith and morals and are oriented to Hell ,without the help of the Sacraments)
Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too.
(We accept this in principle. Defacto we do not know any such case)
All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ. The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation. It follows that the separated Churches and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation.
(It is possible that they can be saved 'in certain circumstances' (Letter of the Holy Office 1949). However the ordinary means of salvation is Catholic Faith and the baptism of water(AG 7). All need to convert according to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla sallus.)
For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church. Nevertheless, our separated brethren, whether considered as individuals or as communities and Churches, are not blessed with that unity which Jesus Christ wished to bestow on all those to whom He has given new birth into one body, and whom He has quickened to newness of life - that unity which the Holy Scriptures and the ancient Tradition of the Church proclaim. For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help towards salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one body of Christ into which all those must be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the people of God…
(Yes all must be fully incorporated in only the Catholic Church for salvation and we do not know any exceptions. Neither does the Council here claim that we know any exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus)
The Second Vatican Council also reemphasized the missionary motivation of this dogma (Lumen Gentium 13, 16):
ll men are called to this catholic unity which prefigures and promotes universal peace. And in different ways to it belong, or are related: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God's grace to salvation… Hence to procure the glory of God and the salvation of all these, the Church, mindful of the Lord's command, "preach the Gospel to every creature" (Mark 16.16) takes zealous care to foster the missions.
And also (Ad Gentes, 3):
The reason for missionary activity lies in the will of God, "Who wishes all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, Himself a man, Jesus Christ, Who gave himself as a ransom for all" (1 Timothy 2.4-5), "neither is there salvation in any other" (Acts 4.12). Everyone, therefore, ought to become converted to Christ, who is known through the preaching of the Church, and they ought, by baptism, to become incorporated into Him, and into the Church which is His body. Christ Himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16.16, John 3.5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church, which men enter through baptism as through a door. Hence, those cannot be saved, who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded through Jesus Christ, by God, as something necessary, still refuse to enter it, or to remain in it. So, although in ways known only to Himself, God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel to that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Hebrews 11.6),
(and who are not exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus)
the Church nevertheless, still has the obligation and sacred right to evangelize. And today, as always, missionary activity retains its full force and necessity. By means of this activity the mystical Body of Christ unceasingly gathers and directs its energies towards its own increase (Ephesians 4:11-16). The members of the Church are impelled to engage in this activity because of the charity with which they love God and by which they desire to share with all men in the spiritual goods of this life and the life to come… Christ is the Truth and the Way which the preaching of the Gospel lays open to all men when it speaks those words of Christ in their ear: "Repent, and believe in the Gospel" (Mark 1;15). Since he who does not believe is already judged (cf. John 3:18), the words of Christ are at once words of judgement and grace, of life and death. For it is only by putting to death that which is old that we can come to the newness of life. Now although this refers primarily to people, it is also true of various worldly goods which bear the mark both of man's sin and the blessing of God: "For all have sinned and have need of the glory of God" (Romans 3.23). No one is freed from sin by himself or by his own efforts, no one is raised above himself or completely delivered from his own weakness, solitude or slavery; all have need of Christ Who is the model, master, liberator, savior, and giver of life (cf. Irenaeus, Av. Haer. 3.15.3: "They were preachers of truth and apostles of liberty.")
The 2000 declaration Dominus Iesus of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith states that "it must be firmly believed that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door."
(Extra ecclesiam nulla salus !)
Dominus Iesus then adds that "for those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit; it has a relationship with the Church, which, according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit."
(Again is Wikipedia implying that those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church are known to us and so they are exceptions to the literal interpretation of the dogma?
If they are not visible to us how can they be exceptions? )
Many Traditionalists would contend that Church statements since the Second Vatican Council are a radical departure from what was originally taught by the Catholic Church.
(Yes only if use the false premise of being able to see the dead alive on earth who are explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Wikipedia has used the false premise .It suggests that Vatican Council II contradicts the literal interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus.)
Many of the recent Vatican II Council's statements imply that those who do not know the gospel and adhere to other religions can be saved without holding the Catholic faith or religion.
(Note the word 'imply'.
Wikipedia implies that the deceased are visible and so Vatican Council II mentions exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus)
The Athanasian Creed, one of the oldest creeds of the Church confirmed by both the Council of Florence and Pope Gregory XVI,taught unequivocally that only those who held the Catholic Faith whole and inviolate could be saved from eternal damnation.
(And Vatican Council II does not contradict the Athanasian Creed).
The Athanasian Creed states "whosoever will be saved, above all it is necessary to hold the Catholic faith. Unless each one holds this faith whole and inviolate, without a doubt he will perish in eternity." Athanasian Creed. The statements of the Church since Vatican II, traditionalists argue, countermand the original Athanasian Creed by stating that Protestants, pagans, Muslims, Jews and others who do not hold the Catholic faith whole and inviolate can still participate in salvation, and have the grace of faith. Most Holy Family Monastery in Fillmore, New York, and the Saint Benedict Center in Richmond, New Hampshire argue strenuously for this position.
(The traditionalists assume that there are explicit exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II to the dogma.They assume and imply like Wikipedia that the references to non Catholics being saved in Vatican Council II is not just accepted in principle but also known in fact.)
Inculpable ignorance
In its statements of this doctrine quoted above, the Church expressly teaches that "it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, will not be held guilty of this in the eyes of God" (Singulari Quadam), that "outside of the Church, nobody can hope for life or salvation unless he is excused through ignorance beyond his control" (Singulari Quidem), that "they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life" (Quanto Conficiamur Moerore).
(None of these three references state that these cases are explicit Nor do they state that they are exceptions to the dogma. Wikipedia implies they are explicit and are known exceptions to the dogma).
Inculpable ignorance is not a means of salvation. But if by no fault of the individual ignorance cannot be overcome (if, that is, it is inculpable and invincible), it does not prevent the grace that comes from Christ, a grace that has a relationship with the Church, saving that person.
(Yes we accept this in principle and do not posit it against the literal interpretation of the dogma)
Controversy for the Catholic Church.
Those who disagree with the Church's interpretation of the teaching "outside the Church there is no salvation" claim that the Church has contradicted itself in its teachings on faith and morals.
(No it has not contradicted itself. Since no Magisterial texts claims that these cases are defacto,explicit exceptions to the dogma. The media/internet implies that they are. So there is a wrong interpretation of the Council,an irrational one.)
They say that the medieval Church statements indicate that no person could possibly be saved unless a visible member of the Catholic Church on earth, and that this was the meaning intended by the Popes of the time, whom they contend made no "lenient statements" on the matter. However, several Church Fathers did in fact make exceptions to visible membership, citing for example baptism ex voto, pre-baptismal martyrdom, although they made it clear that salvation was still mediated by Christ through the Catholic Church, albeit in an invisible, extraordinary manner.
(The Church Fathers only mention these cases and do not state that they are known exceptions to us or that they can ever be known).
Still, certain people like Father Leonard Feeney and some traditionalists believe their understanding of the original doctrine to be correct and that, if the Church were now to teach that the salvation people outside formal membership in the Church is possible, it would contradict its earlier teaching, and would violate the doctrine of the Church's infallibility.
( Even if there was salvation outside the Church, non Catholics saved but not visible to us, how would it contradict the interpretation of Fr. Leonard Feeney? One can affirm the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney along with implicit baptism of desire and being saved implicitly in invincible ignorance etc.
Since these cases are never explicit they are irrelevant to the dogma, they are not exceptions.
Theologically one can hold the position that 'there are only Catholics in Heaven' and that 'there is no known salvation outside the Church' and also affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was known for centuries.The 'rigorist interpretation' is not contradicted by the baptism of desire etc.)
Some sedevacantists hold that the Second Vatican Council did in fact defect from the Church's infallible teaching, and that what is today generally recognized as the Catholic Church is a counterfeit, which therefore is not infallible.-Wikipedia
(The sedevacantists like the liberals assume that we can see the dead saved and they are visible interpretations to extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus of Errors.)-
Lionel Andrades
.svg%5B1%5D.png)
Posts
